Could You Guys Help Critique Our Lock's DPS?

[Laohu]

Good evening Lock Forum,

My guild is currently progressing through the latter half of normal 10m SoO, and we feel that our lock's dps is slightly behind what it should be based on raidbots and other sites. However, this is not for lack of effort. We have talked with him regularly and asked him to do some research. In addition, we believe he has attempted to work out some kinks outside of our normal raid times.

Be that as it may, we have not seen the increase in dps that we would expect at this point. I understand that Locks received a recent nerf via the UVLS hotfix, but he has had issues with dps for some time now. If some of you would not mind taking a look at our logs and provide some input, we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

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worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3diqnels9scxu95y/
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As it turns out, I cannot post a link yet until I "post a few times." Please stand by while I go do that.

[Deleted]

can you specify what his item level is and his average damage in SoO? since we can't see any links (at least i can't)

[Laohu]

I will be happy to link you the logs as soon as I am allowed to do so, but until then... To answer your questions,

His ilvl is 541.
His damage from bosses is as follows-- Protectors: 93k, Norushen: 69k, Sha: 132k, Galakras: 96k, and Juggernaut: 126k

Understandably, it fluctuates per boss, but I would imagine he should be hitting 150K+ with any fight in SoO.

[Dotscom1]

If I'm not mistaken, all you have to do is get rid of like the www or the dot part or something like that and it'll work.

[Laohu]

There we go. I guess 2 posts did the trick. I tested out the link, and it appeared to work for me even if I was logged out of WoL.

Thanks again for the thoughts and insight everyone.

[wrynil]

I will be happy to link you the logs as soon as I am allowed to do so, but until then... To answer your questions,

His ilvl is 541.
His damage from bosses is as follows-- Protectors: 93k, Norushen: 69k, Sha: 132k, Galakras: 96k, and Juggernaut: 126k

Understandably, it fluctuates per boss, but I would imagine he should be hitting 150K+ with any fight in SoO.

He does less dps than our lock 519 who haven't enchanted all his gear yet and who got no legendaries. And that is on all those fights you listed so yeah he should be pulling a lot more. A few things comes to mind.

1. Does he have Legendaries?
2. Does he use consumables? (Flask, food and pre- + normal potting)
3. Fully enchanted and gemed?
4. Reforged for maximum dps?
5. Proffesions at max level or when ever their raid part kicks in?

All these are static things more or less that you yourself can easily look at, you can also read a fast icy veins statistic of stats to see if its crazy what he is doing.

Edit: this have of course nothing to do about wrongs and rights during fights, or skills at all, but untill you provide some wol's you should check it out.

[Deleted]

first, i am by no meaning a warlock expert, so cross - reference my opinion with other answers.

his dps is a bit low. it all depends on a boss fight but i think he should be doing more. seeing that he can hit sha with 132k proves that he can do alot more dmg, so it could be that he is struggling with the mechanics. he might be trying harder to keep himself alive on the cost of lower dps? if that is not the case, maybe training rotation on a dummy could improve his dps by alot? i often do that with my rogue, trying to learn where can i squeeze out more dps.

a dumb question, does he have the cloak with the proc? that proc gives a nice dmg boost. he might be lacking that if he rerolled recently.
anyways, i think(and dont get all butt hurt if you dont agree) that a lock could and should pull 120k+ with item level 541(and definitly should if he has a cloak)
probably just needs to get more adapted to the new bosses and mechanics

btw on some fights changing spec might be more viable(demonology doing more AOE damage which might be more usefull on some fights?), but thats a whole another thing.

anyways, keep investing in him and helping him because in the long run it will do more good for the guild, for the progress, for you and most important for him

[adynn]

first, i am by no meaning a warlock expert, so cross - reference my opinion with other answers.

his dps is a bit low. it all depends on a boss fight but i think he should be doing more. seeing that he can hit sha with 132k proves that he can do alot more dmg, so it could be that he is struggling with the mechanics. he might be trying harder to keep himself alive on the cost of lower dps? if that is not the case, maybe training rotation on a dummy could improve his dps by alot? i often do that with my rogue, trying to learn where can i squeeze out more dps.

TBH even 130k is very low at 541 ilvl, that is what you should be pulling around 520 ilvl.

This type of thing seems like there's some fundamental problems with his rotation/priorities, unfortunately I can't really help the OP out due to not play my lock a ton.

[Caides]

He's playing Demo after it took a heavy nerf, gemming/stacking crit while ignoring Mastery, and not even at the 8100 Breakpoint. He could and probably should be playing Affliction or Destro now until there's more information out about the Demo nerfs and where it stands with the other 2.

He has 60% uptime on doom and corruption on protectors, 30% uptime on Doom and 72% uptime on Corruption on Norushen, 26% uptime on Immolate on Iron Juggernaut.

Tell your Warlock to get an addon of some kind to watch his dots. This is all I can see from just glancing at his Armory and Logs for 3-4 minutes and not diving in. I'm sure if he's having issues tracking his DoTs there are probably more underlying issues outside of those.

[Chingylol]

You need to get rid of him. On Protectors he didn't die yet can't pull 100k dps with 540 ilv? Looking at his uptimes, he's literally just pressing buttons. His gems are bad too and as the above said he's not at the 8100 breakpoint when he could have been like 15+ ilvs ago.

If you guys are serious about progressing and you've already talked to him about his performance, then you need to let him go. If he doesn't get "it" by now, he won't ever. It takes literally 30 seconds to find out the information about what his gems and reforges should be, and if he can't put in that much effort after you have carried him, he's just going to hold down your guild.

[Locksrus]

I play a destro lock, the lowest output of the 3 specs, and do around 250k DPS on sha with 543 ilvl
Your lock should be doing around that. I would almost say a 50% would not be out of line to expect

[Bellenia]

His Soul Fire damage was very low, and unless he has some sort of crazy bad RNG he's not using Molten Core procs. Dot uptime is slacking, as was stated above, and shadowflame damage is very low, which probably stems from both not using hand of gul'dan enough (only 10 hits on a 6.5 minute sha kill, and he didn't use Chaos Wave at all so he's sitting on two charges a lot) and not double stacking the shadowflame stacks properly. Best bet would probably be to send him here to the demo guide (well all of the guides probably, as his destro damage is low as well, but not as bad as demo). Doing less than half or a third of the dps you should be doing doesn't happen by not reforging your gear properly. He obviously has rotation/spell priority issues.

[OokingDooker]

You need to get rid of him. On Protectors he didn't die yet can't pull 100k dps with 540 ilv? Looking at his uptimes, he's literally just pressing buttons. His gems are bad too and as the above said he's not at the 8100 breakpoint when he could have been like 15+ ilvs ago.

If you guys are serious about progressing and you've already talked to him about his performance, then you need to let him go. If he doesn't get "it" by now, he won't ever. It takes literally 30 seconds to find out the information about what his gems and reforges should be, and if he can't put in that much effort after you have carried him, he's just going to hold down your guild.

I agree with this post 100%

The fact that you as the GM has to come to MMO forums to ask information about his class FOR HIM already says enough about his effort to improve. Kick his lazy ass ASAP. He's holding back 9 other players that actually want to progress. These type of people annoy the hell out of me.

[Deleted]

While I, normally, fully disagree with the 'Get rid of him' train of thought, as there's more to that player than the numbers on Skada, this seems like a severe case of PEBCAK. If he does not research the class himself by going to MMO-Champion or even Icy Veins, after being requested to do so, then it's all but a lost cause. There's just so much babysitting you can do, especially if you're (semi-)serious about your PvE progress, no matter how much of a teamplayer he might be.

[Deleted]

93k as demo on Fallen Protectors
Doesn't have legendary cloak


Tell him to visit these boards...

[dawawe]

Low Immolate uptime (23%) on on fight. only 19 chaosbolts on that same fight which is generally a stand still fight. same for his demo fights. Low doom/corruption uptime doesnt seem to be using his fury right only 47 touch of chaos. Still reforging haste over mastery

[Kalshen]

I am at a 541 ilvl although i play affliction I more than doubled what he was doing on the majority of the fights. Seems that you should either drop him or get him to actually read the guides here at MMO. If he isnt willing to put in the effort well hes a lost cause.

[Vespian]

You need to get rid of him. On Protectors he didn't die yet can't pull 100k dps with 540 ilv? Looking at his uptimes, he's literally just pressing buttons. His gems are bad too and as the above said he's not at the 8100 breakpoint when he could have been like 15+ ilvs ago.

If you guys are serious about progressing and you've already talked to him about his performance, then you need to let him go. If he doesn't get "it" by now, he won't ever. It takes literally 30 seconds to find out the information about what his gems and reforges should be, and if he can't put in that much effort after you have carried him, he's just going to hold down your guild.

I would be cautious with throwing away players that don't die in the fire. It still means they pay attention to the game and putting in effort. It might just be that he doesn't really "get it" when it comes down to rotations and priorities. (I can't base the conclusion that he never dies on the mentioned reports, just saying that; IF....

I think I would start by forcing him to respec for raiding and forcing him to follow the advice that can be found pretty much everywhere on the internet. That way you virtually reset his style of playing, which puts him in the position to remaster his class, which puts you in the position to properly give direction to that mastery by supplying him with the information he needs. You should probably give him a few raid days to get used to the change.

That said, if he can't keep track of his dots/debuffs and the uptime remains as low as this, you would eventually need to replace him.

[Diamondeye]

Alright let's get to work.

I'm assuming that you guys are from Azjol-Nerub so I'm using the warlock with the name and location as you described.

I ran some quick sims on him and looked at him in the armory and here are all my initial observations:

1. The simulation I ran is stated that with his current gear, his optimal dps is actually only 145k dps, which is exceptionally low. (granted sims are fucked up right now)
2. He is gemmed almost completely for crit. Destruction optimally goes for Mastery > Crit >> Haste with your grimoire being thrown into Sacrifice.
3. If he wants to stay destruction, he wants to throw away the legendary meta. Destruction benefits much more from the crit meta. Otherwise, if you can convince him to go aff (which would be your best choice if he is willing to learn the proper way to play it and you keep gearing him), stick with the legendary.

[Deleted]

For reference I am 547 geared (although I have the legendary gem + cloak) on fights like protectors I did around 250k before I died 30 or so seconds from the end. Fights like sha of pride 270k (might've been a little lucky with the buff) malkorok which is 100% single target 230k. So he should definately be doing a lot more than you said at that ilvl. Maybe skill comes into play but I consider myself above average but yen still the gap shouldn't be so large.

All of these numbers were done BEFORE the nerf so please take that into account.