Theory crafters! - Is execute a DPS loss during sudden death proc?

[senturion]

I currently DON't have the 4-pc set. So below is my Boss health>80% worth of RB's versus Boss health<20% worth of executes (buffed by reck+skul+mogu potionl) on 10M General Nazgrim Flex. After the RB (+20%) buff last night.

Details:

Raging Blows (Non-Crit/Crit): Average: 250k/ 500k
Execute (+skullbanner +recklessness +mogu potion), (Non-Crit/Crit): Average: 223k/ 631k

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...1/?s=588&e=805

This got me thinking since 1 RB costs 10 rage vs 1 Execute which costs 30 rage... is it a DPS loss to use execute during sudden death Proc vs. normal rotation with RBs + SB ?

I tell you I got freaked out when execute phase came and my DPS went down not up. I was doing pool rage till colossus smash > dump execute. Dump RB outside of CS to avoid rage cap which I was doing last tier as SMF. Is execute so weak on TG or did we get steath nerf again?

[Kankipappa]

TG execute has been so weak when the reduction came, was it 5.2? Well anyway, I asked the same questio back then, and my dps was always +-0 on execute phase if I couldn't get lucky 4x execute crits in a row (what was quite hard before last tier 4 set bonus after the recklessness nerf). SMF obviously had no problem spamming execute even without reck.

I wouldn't be suprised if upgraded warforged/hc 2 handers would pull over execute after the current buff, especially if you haven't got your gear fully over 560 ilvl to give you enough AP so Executes would even scale up. Haven't done any math on this obviously but it's a good question, and I hope somebody can give some real answers soon.

[senturion]

Hmm no reply..

[vidas]

Alter the action priority list in simcraft and find out. I'll do this tomorrow to see, on mobile right now. Personally execute hits significantly harder than RB and resources aren't exactly an issue at this level of crit. Good point though, will look into it. I had similar doubts playing arms. I was not poping reck/pot during lust since it was always at 30% but execute hits only slightly harder than execute.

[Breccia]

I don't have the math onhand to compare 190% weapon damagex2 vs. [ 6,886 + 255% of AP ]x1, although I can say if your weapons are much higher or lower ilvl than the rest of your set, it probably makes a difference. Failing that, the next thing that leaps to mind is Raging Blow has charges, Execute doesn't. Based on your log, I would probably spam Execute until the banner/potion/reck wore off, then switch back to RB when possible/Execute if not.

That's just a guess, but since your RB seems to do more damage than your Execute outside of burst buffs, that's the direction I'd lean in.

[senturion]

Based on the latest version of simcraft which I believe have not taken into account 20% buff to RB:

Using my current profile-

Average Dmg:
RB = 300k x 1.2 = 360k
Execute = 380k
HS = 115k
BT = 101k x 1.2 = 120k

So considering our normal rotation of CS>RB-BT-RB-RB + 3x HS vs the execute rotation of CS>Exec-Exec-Exec-Exec-BT

This is basically (360x3 +120 +115x3) = 1.545m worth of damage in our normal rotation vs. 1.640m worth of damage if we do exec rotation.

Within the CS window, there is < 10% DPS difference whether you use execute or just use the normal RB rotation. Without T16, the benefit will be 100k of damage multiply by number of CS windows when boss health is < 20%. Let's say there are ~ 5 execute windows within the last 20% so that's ~500k of additional damage? Seems to be that the benefit of using execute vs. ignoring execute completely is pretty marginal without the T16 4-pc set bonus.

[Brakthir]

You guys are forgetting SB in there.

[senturion]

Hmmmm..

With SB I can theoritically go SB RB RB RB either by 2 pc T15
Proc or BeZerker rage . This +3 HS would be a dps increase over 4xexecute ?

[terkhal]

i was considering as a TG warrior going for 2P and 3 off set part.
With Garrosh shoulder / Shaman chest / Malkorok Pants.

I fell like the stat gain vs the execute proc is more powerfll overall. Is is possible to get a simcraft on it ?

I might be wrong since i see every warrior rushing to the 4P

[Requiel]

Based on the latest version of simcraft which I believe have not taken into account 20% buff to RB:

Using my current profile-

Average Dmg:
RB = 300k x 1.2 = 360k
Execute = 380k
HS = 115k
BT = 101k x 1.2 = 120k

So considering our normal rotation of CS>RB-BT-RB-RB + 3x HS vs the execute rotation of CS>Exec-Exec-Exec-Exec-BT

This is basically (360x3 +120 +115x3) = 1.545m worth of damage in our normal rotation vs. 1.640m worth of damage if we do exec rotation.

Within the CS window, there is < 10% DPS difference whether you use execute or just use the normal RB rotation. Without T16, the benefit will be 100k of damage multiply by number of CS windows when boss health is < 20%. Let's say there are ~ 5 execute windows within the last 20% so that's ~500k of additional damage? Seems to be that the benefit of using execute vs. ignoring execute completely is pretty marginal without the T16 4-pc set bonus.

RB got closer to execute but it's not over taking in normal circumstances, Your weapons are a lot better than most of your other gear and you trinkets don't have strength on them which will bring RB closer to execute, I've calculated it and your simc shows the execute is still better so you might of just gotten unlucky with your executes (no AP procs etc).

Now for your suggestion of RB+HS > execute (if I understand correctly), if you get to the situation where it does more damage the 4 executes in a CS its still wouldn't be worth spending the rage on it. you would gain more damage from putting executes out side of CS rather then spending that rage on a HS inside of a CS (more damage in CS != more damage overall), this situation would happen if RB > execute in damage.

[senturion]

With the 2-PC T16 giving added rage on CS debuff. Would the additional rage gen from the additional 3xHS which RB (only 10 rage) allows be better than using 4 executes without HS? Also, with SB, we can actually do CS-RB-SB-RB-RB + weave in 3 HS vs just CS-SB-execute x 3 , within a CS window. Is that higher dps ?

[Requiel]

With the 2-PC T16 giving added rage on CS debuff. Would the additional rage gen from the additional 3xHS which RB (only 10 rage) allows be better than using 4 executes without HS? Also, with SB, we can actually do CS-RB-SB-RB-RB + weave in 3 HS vs just CS-SB-execute x 3 , within a CS window. Is that higher dps ?

I'll take your simc numbers for this
Execute = 380k
HS CS = 151k (added 30% for cs)

So with the RB + HS rotation you would be doing 4 HS in CS (max ammount) for a total of 604k plus 20 rage which we will be generous and convert that rage into exe outside cs, this totals 804k damage. now if you were to convert that rage you would of spend on the heroic strikes inside cs into execute outside CS you would gain 1502k damage.


Adding stormbolt doesn't change anything, it will make the original CS cycle stronger but it doesn't make exe VS RB situation change.