Item squish = Metric System

[jbombard]

Your argument falls flat on it's face since 1-60, 60-70, 70-80, 80-85, 85-90 did NOT have exponential growth. Each of those sections is linear growth. It's just that the line gets steeper each expansion because of the raid tier jumps.

If you look at DPS and health there was indeed exponential growth, which is what I am talking about character progression. iLevel provides that growth and each iLevel increase provides a specific % of growth.

- - - Updated - - -

Your argument falls flat on it's face since 1-60, 60-70, 70-80, 80-85, 85-90 did NOT have exponential growth. Each of those sections is linear growth. It's just that the line gets steeper each expansion because of the raid tier jumps.

- - - Updated - - -


Because it's the only information they've published... as opposed to your assumptions which come from nothing.

LMFAO. Pot meet kettle.

[Deleted]

I don't see the problem at all, I like doing 400k DPS.

[Aquamonkey]

If you look at DPS and health there was indeed exponential growth, which is what I am talking about character progression. iLevel provides that growth and each iLevel increase provides a specific % of growth.

Not during leveling... have you leveled recently? Characters get massively gimped each level as stats points to percentage increases faster than leveling gear, especially at 80+.

LMFAO. Pot meet kettle.

Yep, linking a direct source from Blizzard is nothing...

[jbombard]

I don't see the problem at all, I like doing 400k DPS.

The problem they are trying to fix isn't really on the player end, it is on their end. They have stated they are bumping up against a database design limitation, and instead of fixing the underlying problem they want to just make numbers smaller.

- - - Updated - - -

Not during leveling... have you leveled recently? Characters get massively gimped each level as stats points to percentage increases faster than leveling gear, especially at 80+.


Yep, linking a direct source from Blizzard is nothing...

hahaha hand drawn napkin graph is pretty official. They have given out no specifics on how they will implement the iLevel squish what so ever. If you want to take a casual blue post with a hand drawn napkin graph as the word of god, go ahead, just don't be angry when it doesn't turn out to be true because it isn't your god Blizzard lying to you it is you misunderstanding the point of the post.

[Fluttershy]

I'd rather they remove 70% of all class abilities.

Game is too autistic and ADHD now with all the random filler garbage they give you every expansion.

[Deleted]

w00ts the problem? addons like msbt already use numbers like "230k" and not 230.012. are devs too dumb to implement this into the game?

reminds me kinda of the millenium bug.. "omg, never thougt some1 would reach this. now all databases are fucked up" jesus.... don't devs think about simple numberscaling?

[jbombard]

I'd rather they remove 70% of all class abilities.

Game is too autistic and ADHD now with all the random filler garbage they give you every expansion.

Even though I have no idea what you mean by "autistic" in that context, I can say this, the number of class abilities have absolutely nothing to do with this particular issue.

[Aquamonkey]

hahaha hand drawn napkin graph is pretty official. They have given out no specifics on how they will implement the iLevel squish what so ever. If you want to take a casual blue post with a hand drawn napkin graph as the word of god, go ahead, just don't be angry when it doesn't turn out to be true because it isn't your god Blizzard lying to you it is you misunderstanding the point of the post.

Nothing official about a post on their official website outlining their proposed solutions. I never pretended it was going to be 100% the final product. I'm just going on what they've published. You base your "200 ilvl" assumptions on nothing but vapor.

[jbombard]

w00ts the problem? addons like msbt already use numbers like "230k" and not 230.012. are devs too dumb to implement this into the game?

reminds me kinda of the millenium bug.. "omg, never thougt some1 would reach this. now all databases are fucked up" jesus.... don't devs think about simple numberscaling?

This happens a lot in big business too. When people design the database they don't anticipate the size of the numbers to be so large, but as they grow they start to bump up against the self designed limitations. The thing is businesses fix these kinds of problems everyday without issue by addressing the actual database design instead of "squishing" their sales numbers.

[Deleted]

MoP is the expansion where they've been working on it. It was announced as needing to happen pre-MoP. Next expansion we will be hitting the million mark on player health and DPS, so whatever they are planning is not going to come at 7.0.

We are already at post 1 million hp mark. At least for tanks. I got 908k in 541 ilvl gear.

[jbombard]

Nothing official about a post on their official website outlining their proposed solutions. I never pretended it was going to be 100% the final product. I'm just going on what they've published. You base your "200 ilvl" assumptions on nothing but vapor.

I did say it was an assumption based on the iLevel increase provided solely by tier gear, and based on them probably not wanting to mess with how much fun leveling is too much. So I actually did some research, went back and looked at level increases through the game and leveling, and tried to pick a scenario that would impact the game experience as little as possible while still providing a decent sized squish. You apparently went "ooh shiny" saw a graph, that was for illustrative purposes only and mentioned as such, and without any independent thought or analysis of the impact believed it. Both of us are making assumptions, only one of us has put thought into it.

[Aquamonkey]

I did say it was an assumption based on the iLevel increase provided solely by tier gear, and based on them probably not wanting to mess with how much fun leveling is too much. So I actually did some research, went back and looked at level increases through the game and leveling, and tried to pick a scenario that would impact the game experience as little as possible while still providing a decent sized squish. You apparently went "ooh shiny" saw a graph, that was for illustrative purposes only and mentioned as such, and without any independent thought or analysis of the impact believed it. Both of us are making assumptions, only one of us has put thought into it.

The graph is accurate enough to show ilvls as they currently are in the game...

And the steepness of the lvling sections is tied to the jumps in tiers. Remove the tiers and the lvling sections don't have to be as steep to overcome the tiers.

Again, my assumptions are based on what has been published. You are making assumptions upon assumptions based on your own limited view of the game.

[jbombard]

The graph is accurate enough to show ilvls as they currently are in the game...

And the steepness of the lvling sections is tied to the jumps in tiers. Remove the tiers and the lvling sections don't have to be as steep to overcome the tiers.

Again, my assumptions are based on what has been published. You are making assumptions upon assumptions based on your own limited view of the game.

The steepness of the leveling sections has nothing to do with the jumps in tiers, what the jumps in tiers currently affect is where the next expack iLevel starts, after that it is progression based.

You can base your assumptions on whatever you want, even old outdated information that wasn't even provided for the purpose you are using it for, but you still obviously aren't putting any independent thought into it, and it is rather obvious you haven't researched the issue much. So assumptions are assumptions, don't try and pretend your assumptions are facts.

[Licarius]

Mega Dmg = No
Item squish = bring it on, squish em hard!

[Aquamonkey]

The steepness of the leveling sections has nothing to do with the jumps in tiers, what the jumps in tiers currently affect is where the next expack iLevel starts, after that it is progression based.

You can base your assumptions on whatever you want, even old outdated information that wasn't even provided for the purpose you are using it for, but you still obviously aren't putting any independent thought into it, and it is rather obvious you haven't researched the issue much. So assumptions are assumptions, don't try and pretend your assumptions are facts.

"So I actually did some research, went back and looked at level increases through the game and leveling,"
What research? Everything about the ilvl increases during leveling is in that graph already... It's accurate to the current state of the game minus MoP. So IDK WTF you are so proud of researching current ilvls. Considering your "research" I'm surprised you didn't pick up on that...


"and tried to pick a scenario that would impact the game experience as little as possible while still providing a decent sized squish."
Your assumptions are based on what you think is fun, what you think is important, and goes contrary to what they proposed in their post.

[Ferocity]

Not during leveling... have you leveled recently? Characters get massively gimped each level as stats points to percentage increases faster than leveling gear, especially at 80+.

It is not because of more powerful items, it is because developers still use Beta game systems. Characters get weaker each level up after 80 because of:

1. Ratings. Those were introduced for TBC only to work for TBC and maybe 1 more expansion to allow progress beyond lv60 without hitting 100% hit/crit numbers, It was a quick fix before former developers would make proper game systems.

2. No downranking. One of the first "brilliant" ideas of GC. It killed leveling in WotLK (when at level 5-10 you would cast couple spells and be oom) until quick bandaid fix with massive increase to mana regen at 1-15. Healers notice it the most, as each level-up at 80+ their mana efficiency becomes significantly worse.

So, what so-called "item-squish" would do? Now, with introduction of Flex, each raid = 4 sub-tiers with 13 ilvls. Let's say we have 3 tiers in next expansion + 2 dungeon tiers, 50 ilvls for leveling purpose. Thus we have 232 ilvls minimum just for next expansion. If you think that "item squish" will get rid of item inflation, you are wrong. Flex as new raid tier will accelerate growth even more. Comparing top-geared raider with 91+ leveling char in next expansion would be like comparing someone in full WotLK dungeon blues with someone in full MoP dungeon blues. If we will have 25k HP pools at lv91, we will reach 300k HP pools by end of expansion if developers won't stop making millions of raid modes with huge gaps in-between.

Will "item squish" help? No. Proper solution is needed, and Blizzard should consider taking other people for designing game systems, as current people still work with ratings' system (when it was supposed to be replaced 2 expansions ago) and produce more and more raid sub-tiers and then say "we didn't expect that numbers will grow so high".

[Thelxi]

lol so true

[huth]

Your argument falls flat on it's face since 1-60, 60-70, 70-80, 80-85, 85-90 did NOT have exponential growth. Each of those sections is linear growth. It's just that the line gets steeper each expansion because of the raid tier jumps.

Yes they had. Items stats grow exponentially with iLvl, player stats grow exponentially with level.

[Aquamonkey]

Yes they had. Items stats grow exponentially with iLvl, player stats grow exponentially with level.

Linear ilvl growth...

- - - Updated - - -

It is not because of more powerful items, it is because developers still use Beta game systems. Characters get weaker each level up after 80 because of:

1. Ratings. Those were introduced for TBC only to work for TBC and maybe 1 more expansion to allow progress beyond lv60 without hitting 100% hit/crit numbers, It was a quick fix before former developers would make proper game systems.

Yes, I know how it happens. Ratings-to-percent nerfs as you level outpacing the increase in stats on gear. As it is now, there's a boom-and-bust cycle to leveling. You get a large power boost as you acquire next-expansion gear, then get progressively nerfed as you level through it. Smoothing that out would make leveling more consistent during old expansion transitions.

[Dangg]

Remember the times when you knew if an item was good or bad based on how much of each stat it had? Now it's just ilvl.
Good times.