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  1. #1

    Item squish = Metric System

    I've put this up in the other thread but I felt it won't see the light of the day.

    Anyway, for those who are familiar with the metric system, I think you can relate your schemata with the unreleased item squish.

    The metric system is transitional. It is consisted of base units; derived units were built up from the base units using logical rather than empirical relationships while multiples and sub-multiples of both base and derived units were decimal-based and identified by a standard set of prefixes.

    For example 1,000,000 cm = 1000m = 1km.

    Imagine 1000m is the amount of damage you inflict or the amount of health a raid boss has, the item squish simply displays the decimal points by making it 1KM. The value is still the same but the DISPLAY would be different.


    TLDR; Same value, different numbers displayed.

    In other word 1m x100 = 1Km.

    Or if your normal damage is 100m your new squished damage would be 0.1Km.
    Last edited by Hyde; 2013-09-26 at 08:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    In other word 1m x100 = 1Km.
    Are you ABSOLUTELY sure about that?

  3. #3
    100m = 1Km = 1000m

    Seems legit

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    But well - you don't really eat something that speaks to you, is part of "your people"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    For example 1,000,000 cm = 1000m = 1km.
    100cm = 1m.
    Therefore: 1,000,000cm = 10,000m = 10km.

    Also, what you're describing is mega-damage, not squish.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    The squish needs to happen. The numbers are getting out of hand.

  7. #7
    Epic! Ysilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    TLDR; Same value, different numbers displayed.
    Which is NOT what blizzard wants to do with item squish.

    Biggest problems is not having huge numbers, it's having exponential growth of these numbers. If what is done is simply what you suggest, then another "squish" will be needed again 1-2 expansions later, and again later, and maybe even mid-expansion later. (then there's also the "technical" reason explained by blizzard, but this is definitely not the main reason, as it's quite easy to fix)

    Simply changing displayed numbers by dividing them by a fixed value doesn't fix the real problem.

  8. #8
    Nah, not really a "metric system".
    While reducing numbers by 1000 for lvl90 players will be fine, reducing numbers by 1000 on lower levels will cause something really stupid.
    Up to lvl 10 you hit just for 1-10 damage and have less than 100 HP.

    Just imagine a poor player with 0.1 HP and hitting monsters for 0.001 damage.

  9. #9
    Not to mention that up until MoP, gear won't even get 1 point of stats total. Level 60 chars will have an incredible 5 health. And the technical issues would still be there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysilla View Post
    Which is NOT what blizzard wants to do with item squish.

    Biggest problems is not having huge numbers, it's having exponential growth of these numbers. If what is done is simply what you suggest, then another "squish" will be needed again 1-2 expansions later, and again later, and maybe even mid-expansion later. (then there's also the "technical" reason explained by blizzard, but this is definitely not the main reason, as it's quite easy to fix)

    Simply changing displayed numbers by dividing them by a fixed value doesn't fix the real problem.
    You're not even going to get a full expansion out of that. Just look at what a level 1 does in damage. Squishing that below 1 isn't really feasible, and you're lucky if you can move the comma a single digit with that.
    Last edited by huth; 2013-09-26 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #10
    im a try somthin:


    For example 100 (Damage(D)) = 1 (Mega Damage (MD))

    A lvl 1 auto attack will hit for 40D
    A lvl 90 auto attack may hit for 40MD

    A lvl 90 Pyroblast would look like 4000MD instead of 400,000D like it dose now

    A more exact lvl 90 Pyroblast looks like 347,902 D and this would end up looking like 3479 MD however the problem is that this isn't exactly how much damage is done. You real MD would look like 3479.02 so they would do 1 of 2 things:

    1) Not display the .02 that may annoy players because you cant see the full damage done.
    2) Round the .02 to the nearest whole number so Pyro would be 3479MD if it was 0.5 damage it would be 3480MD

    i think i did some bad maths but u get the idea
    Last edited by zwiggy; 2013-09-26 at 10:23 AM.

  11. #11
    Well item squish will basically do the same, in a more neat way.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Haidaes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ysilla View Post
    Which is NOT what blizzard wants to do with item squish.

    Biggest problems is not having huge numbers, it's having exponential growth of these numbers. If what is done is simply what you suggest, then another "squish" will be needed again 1-2 expansions later, and again later, and maybe even mid-expansion later. (then there's also the "technical" reason explained by blizzard, but this is definitely not the main reason, as it's quite easy to fix)

    Simply changing displayed numbers by dividing them by a fixed value doesn't fix the real problem.
    The exponential growth is their own selfmade problem. They just added another raiding tier and on top of that the retarded warforged crap all over again. Add to that the random increase of 50+ iLvl at the beginning of an expansion and you know why it get's out of hand. They even showed this themself that their original progression was way more linear and only recently changed to an exponential function.

    As you said yourself, the reason is mainly because they feel its off. In the age of 64bit integers even in another 5 expansions we won't see any technical problems. That is if they don't make their exp(arg) to exp(exp(arg)).

    Anyway the metric debate is not what is going to happen anyway. And even a prehistoric UI like mine already display stuff in an appropriate format when the numbers get too big. So neither will a level 1 char see 0.000001 Mdmg nor will a level 100 char see 1.402.789 dmg.

  13. #13
    Exponential growth, while a problem, is a necessity for the system to work. It's not getting out of hand, they've known this would be a problem for a long time now.

    Keep in mind that significant parts of the engine are still 32 bit based.
    Last edited by huth; 2013-09-26 at 10:29 AM.

  14. #14
    Guess it's hard for people to process more then 6 digits in their dps?
    Squish is bullshit.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  15. #15
    A lvl 1 wouldn't see 0.00001md fly across his screen would see 40 D fly across his screen when he gets to a point of a 100 damage attack he will see a 1MD fly across his screen. Mega damage may not even be turned on until numbers get so big tens / units are not even important enough to care about in a fight.

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Cyrops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tryana View Post
    Guess it's hard for people to process more then 6 digits in their dps?
    Squish is bullshit.
    It's hard to go "woa look at the damage" when you see:
    423219238
    412319389
    482482823
    401210439
    482301243

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by winkies View Post
    That is actually cool

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiggy View Post
    A more exact lvl 90 Pyroblast looks like 347,902 D and this would end up looking like 3479 MD however the problem is that this isn't exactly how much damage is done.
    You could display it as 347 MD 902 D

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysilla View Post
    Which is NOT what blizzard wants to do with item squish.

    Biggest problems is not having huge numbers, it's having exponential growth of these numbers. If what is done is simply what you suggest, then another "squish" will be needed again 1-2 expansions later, and again later, and maybe even mid-expansion later. (then there's also the "technical" reason explained by blizzard, but this is definitely not the main reason, as it's quite easy to fix)

    Simply changing displayed numbers by dividing them by a fixed value doesn't fix the real problem.
    Didn't Blizzard state that they're looking at a number reduction plus a change of the damage curve at lower levels? I think they're attacking the problem on both fronts, which is smart really. And reducing the size of 0s really is necessary, too. It became ridiculous when bosses started having 1b HP. At some point, numbers become meaningless. I think anything between 1-100m seems ideal. Coupled with appropriate dps numbers, of course.

    In the end, fights will still last 3-10 mins on average, warlocks and mages will still be on top, fights will still require you to move out of fire etc. I don't get all these discussions.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrops View Post
    It's hard to go "woa look at the damage" when you see:
    423219238
    412319389
    482482823
    401210439
    482301243

    - - - Updated - - -
    Not if your not mentally challenged o.o

    Infracted. Lets post a bit more constructively, please.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2013-09-26 at 03:47 PM.
    Trylb / Galesin
    Winners never quit, Quitters never win
    Nobody Said It Was Easy

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    I've put this up in the other thread but I felt it won't see the light of the day.

    Anyway, for those who are familiar with the metric system, I think you can relate your schemata with the unreleased item squish.

    The metric system is transitional. It is consisted of base units; derived units were built up from the base units using logical rather than empirical relationships while multiples and sub-multiples of both base and derived units were decimal-based and identified by a standard set of prefixes.

    For example 1,000,000 cm = 1000m = 1km.

    Imagine 1000m is the amount of damage you inflict or the amount of health a raid boss has, the item squish simply displays the decimal points by making it 1KM. The value is still the same but the DISPLAY would be different.


    TLDR; Same value, different numbers displayed.

    In other word 1m x100 = 1Km.

    Or if your normal damage is 100m your new squished damage would be 0.1Km.
    Thanks for the explanation of what would have happened if they weren't going to item squish. This has nothing to do with what the item squish will actually accomplish or with how it will be implemented.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrops View Post
    It's hard to go "woa look at the damage" when you see:
    423219238
    412319389
    482482823
    401210439
    482301243

    - - - Updated - - -



    That is actually cool

    - - - Updated - - -



    You could display it as 347 MD 902 D
    How is that a problem? I'm not counting each piece of dmg individually and the combat log(which isn't displaying numbers all over the screen) would retain the 100% accurate numbers. It's not like they'd suddenly round off dmg because it was displayed in shorthand.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Thanks for the explanation of what would have happened if they weren't going to item squish. This has nothing to do with what the item squish will actually accomplish or with how it will be implemented.
    You're right, it is probably only half of the story. But it helps to take away the Angst from people that don't think it through.

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