1. #1
    The Patient
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    Resto - Dream of Cenarius

    Quick question if anyone knows - I know it's rubbish but ignore that.

    Does mastery benefit "Dream of Cenarius" in anyway for the healing part of it?

    Is it a direct heal?

    Or if you went full crit instead of mastery, would you get more damage and healing from it?

    Ignore the point we shouldn't even talent it and why mastery is better for general healing and you are gimping yourself etc...

    Thanks

  2. #2
    As far as I know Mastery worked in PTR but not on Live. But after so many hotfixes they might have ninja buffed it, so might worth it to test again.

    Also Haste would be your best friend for DoC. Goes nice along with the 13k resto breakpoint.

  3. #3
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    As far as I know Mastery worked in PTR but not on Live. But after so many hotfixes they might have ninja buffed it, so might worth it to test again.

    Also Haste would be your best friend for DoC. Goes nice along with the 13k resto breakpoint.
    Yeah can see haste would be good apart from going through mana quicker - not tested out how much mana you use with DoC though.

    Just want to check that mastery does buff the healing from wrath. The only way to test it is by doing some reforging unless someone knows.

  4. #4
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Also Haste would be your best friend for DoC. Goes nice along with the 13k resto breakpoint.
    Crit should give similar results, with the advantage of not burning through your mana as quickly.

    (And before anyone asks: no, the heal effect cannot crit.)
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Alltat View Post
    Crit should give similar results, with the advantage of not burning through your mana as quickly.

    (And before anyone asks: no, the heal effect cannot crit.)
    Well haste will boost your actual healing as well, given that the breakpoint is sought after. And from what I see that breakpoint is worth quite a few stats, which would make it better than crit.

    I don't really get the "burn through your mana faster" argument healers throw around. Will you be checking for heal crits (if stacking crit) so you can stop casting? If that, then what stops you from casting if you stack haste? Don't you have to check for overhealing for both cases anyway?

    I would somewhat get it if it was haste vs. mastery because you are comparing fast+small vs slow+big heals, but crit?

  6. #6
    As of now, mastery does nothing to boost DoC; but haste clearly does.

    However, if you are running a 13,1 HBP build you are doing exactly that for one single reason, added tick on rejuvenation.

    With this in mind it would only be natural to use rejuvs, and not DoC, with such a build. Who knows.

    Blizzard might fix it and add mastery into the equation on DoC. Sure hope they fix this.
    ^ I agree with this.

  7. #7
    I tried reforging in and out of mastery and didn't notice any changes to the heal from DoC. And yes, as they are saying haste and crit will be better for our atonement. Haste will be provide quicker and smaller heals and crit will give slower but bigger heals (overtime/avg).

    Used it on a farm boss last night and it was rofl, 80k hps with 50k dps. Most my healing coming from DoC, Efflo and Y'Gift.

  8. #8
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Juvencus;22569828]I don't really get the "burn through your mana faster" argument healers throw around. Will you be checking for heal crits (if stacking crit) so you can stop casting? If that, then what stops you from casting if you stack haste? Don't you have to check for overhealing for both cases anyway?QUOTE]
    If you increase your haste by 50% (exaggerated example), you'll get 50% more casts off and will do 50% more healing with DoC, but spamming Wrath for one minute also costs 50% more mana (as you cast more spells). If you compare that to instead increasing your crit chance by 50%, that would also lead to 50% more DoC healing while not affecting how much mana you spent.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Alltat;22572578]
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    I don't really get the "burn through your mana faster" argument healers throw around. Will you be checking for heal crits (if stacking crit) so you can stop casting? If that, then what stops you from casting if you stack haste? Don't you have to check for overhealing for both cases anyway?QUOTE]
    If you increase your haste by 50% (exaggerated example), you'll get 50% more casts off and will do 50% more healing with DoC, but spamming Wrath for one minute also costs 50% more mana (as you cast more spells). If you compare that to instead increasing your crit chance by 50%, that would also lead to 50% more DoC healing while not affecting how much mana you spent.
    Ofc if you set time limits, haste will put out more stats and hence more mana. But you forget the fact that's more casts in the first place. More casts = more healing.

    If you remove time limits and put overhealing common sense then you can see which stat you prefer.

  10. #10
    If you're using DoC enough to warrant it over the alternatives I don't think mana will be an issue. I had a good time using it in a Flex Raid in mostly Moonkin gear (kept 2T15 so Efflo could do all my work for me) and didn't have mana problems.

  11. #11
    Since our normal kills are pretty faceroll, I've played with the DoC talent for some actual SoO fights, and in my experience, the mana is a non issue, took like 6 minutes to lose like 30% purely spamming it. Now, for me, the DoC heals/eff still were proccing my HLG stacks. I would assume it would activate any spirit trinket, but I could be wrong.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    Since our normal kills are pretty faceroll, I've played with the DoC talent for some actual SoO fights, and in my experience, the mana is a non issue, took like 6 minutes to lose like 30% purely spamming it. Now, for me, the DoC heals/eff still were proccing my HLG stacks. I would assume it would activate any spirit trinket, but I could be wrong.
    What is your stat distribution and average ilevel like?

    I tried it using mastery build (13k spirit, 3.2k haste, 10.9k mastery), it disappointed greatly. I'm guessing my wrath cast time (1.80 sec) supresses some of the advantages it might have (haste build probably pushing the cast time closer to what, 1,3sec?). With my current spirit it was mana positive. Might have been because it procced hc horridon trinket, as in theory it should not be mana positive for me (I regen 2713 mana per sec, it costs 2838 mana per sec)
    ^ I agree with this.

  13. #13
    if you focus on haste and crit it works out fairly well

    i've only spammed it in lfr and flex, but in those cases i do just as much, if not more healing than traditional healing style

    i spam it while maintaining shroom efflo and not doing much else

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    if you focus on haste and crit it works out fairly well

    i've only spammed it in lfr and flex, but in those cases i do just as much, if not more healing than traditional healing style

    i spam it while maintaining shroom efflo and not doing much else
    There's simply no way that wrath spam keeps up with WG/rejuv spam.

    What you may mean is that you keep up with the other healers, which is a much more reasonable claim (firstly because of low amounts of damage in LFR and secondly people in LFR are generally pretty bad).

  15. #15
    It's a really fun talent but really shouldn't be used in a "proper" raid, LFR and heroics it's probably more ideal due to the extra DPS you can pump out. Glyph of Efflorescence and DoC, pretty much all you need. But otherwise we have better tools for the situation. One of the biggest issues is the overhealing waste, something Disc Priests with Atonement don't need to worry about.

  16. #16
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    Ofc if you set time limits, haste will put out more stats and hence more mana. But you forget the fact that's more casts in the first place. More casts = more healing.
    Only if you compare stacking haste with stacking nothing. More crit also equals more DoC healing, as does more intellect.

    If you compare the mana cost of doing X healing with a crit build to the mana cost of doing X healing with a haste build, you'll find that the haste build has to spend more mana to do the same amount of healing. The crit build gets additional healing by making Wrath hit for more. The haste build gets additional healing by allowing you to cast Wrath more times, meaning you have to spend more mana than with the crit build to do the same amount of healing.

    That said, mana shouldn't be a concern as DoC is a "lol" talent in raids anyway. It shouldn't be taken as a serious option as you won't be pulling your weight on progress content, so if you do run out of mana from spamming Wrath you can just sit back and cast some rejuvs. If you had time to spam enough Wrath to go OOM, it's pretty clear that you weren't really needed on the fight anyway.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bzl View Post
    What is your stat distribution and average ilevel like?

    I tried it using mastery build (13k spirit, 3.2k haste, 10.9k mastery), it disappointed greatly. I'm guessing my wrath cast time (1.80 sec) supresses some of the advantages it might have (haste build probably pushing the cast time closer to what, 1,3sec?). With my current spirit it was mana positive. Might have been because it procced hc horridon trinket, as in theory it should not be mana positive for me (I regen 2713 mana per sec, it costs 2838 mana per sec)
    My iLvl is 554, 13,163 breakpoint, 15.8k spirit, like 3k crit and mastery.

    As you said, it's disappointing, but as everyone else has been saying, it's not really a real talent choice. Like I said our normal kills are pretty faceroll, so rather than watch the vast majority of all my healing go to overhealing, it's nice to be able to contribute something in down times. Hell, most fights I use it I don't even pull off it to heal, our pally can easily take care of whatever else happens, and the DoC actually snipe heals pretty dang well so the numbers aren't terrible for what it is. Can pull like 50-70k hps depending on the damage going out (this is with efflo as well).

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