What is the inherent reason to have only dual spec

[Ranker]

This is totally untrue. There are only two differences between having tri-spec and having what we have today: I would no longer need a 3rd party add-on to save my bars and I wouldn't need to hearth to swap to one of my three specs. For druids, DKs, and Monks, it's even easier. With the new "portal" rules for those classes, they can use it, retrain, and use it again and be right back where they started.

I'm not a frost/blood DK, I'm a frost DK who happens to be able to become blood spec for the occasional tank run. If your description was accurate, I still wouldn't be a frost/blood DK, I'd be a frost/blood/portal+unholy+portal DK.

If any respec is allowed, the rest is just a matter of convenience and gold (which you can recoup in a matter of minutes).

No what he said is true, Just because you *don't* want to believe it doesn't make it any less true.

[DSRilk]

It adds a bit of depth to the world if I need to go somewhere to do something. One of the problems the game faces is Immersion vs Convenience. Some things made sense, like not needing to camp out front of the gates to WSG to queue and requeue for the instance, It's unrealistic to have to run to the WSG gate, the AB gate, and the AV gate (though AB and AV are pretty close together) if I wanted to queue to all three.

Or blacksmiths needing to find an anvil to make items, or miners needing a forge to smelt bars. They're subtle nods forcing you to interact with the world. If you take them away, the world gets smaller.

I do agree that blizzard can do a better job of "remembering" your configurations without the help of a 3rd party addon. The cost is negligable, the reality is that the more "Screens" we use, the less we need to interact and utilize the surrounding world. Realistically, as a tri-role class, you'll know if you're going to be expected to tank or heal, and if you're worried about making your raid wait on you, you can have the appropriate spec ready ahead of time.

The more people are out and about interacting with the world, the more opportunities you get to suddenly bump into random happenings. Flying over a rare-spawn on the way to an instance, tapping a world boss on the way to your raid, bumping into an old friend infront of the meeting stone summoning your guildies to said raid. Maybe you bump into a lowbie getting ganked and take two seconds to save the day.

These things are what make an MMO massive, and help them feel like living worlds. Adding more "Menus to navigate and dispense my every need" only serves to combat this. Things like Dual spec are fine because they're limited, but the more reasons to go out into the world removed because it's convenient to have baked into the UI the smaller the world gets.

I am a hard-core RPer (not the Goldshire-type, btw). I run a paper RPG every other week and the game averages about two to three combats a year. In WoW, I am always IC in /s and try to bring out RP even during LFG by chatting IC as we go. I say this so that you understand that immersion is very important to me. I also say this so that when I tell you that I see no immersion benefits from two fast portals and a click on a trainer for one of the specs I like to mess around with when a single click works for swapping to my other more common spec, that it's not an opinion generated because I just don't care about immersion.

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No what he said is true, Just because you *don't* want to believe it doesn't make it any less true.

It's not a matter of belief. My DK, druid, and monk are all tri-spec. Already. Thus he is empirically incorrect in his assertion. Adding an official tri-spec to the UI doesn't give me tri-spec, it just stops me from having to port twice.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No what he said is true, Just because you *don't* want to believe it doesn't make it any less true.

Well, no. You are giving an opinion. Don;t act like its a fact..

[NightZero88]

Yes it does. It hurts the concept of meaningful choice.

How? Why is it any different than now? I can already do exactly what we're asking the only difference is it takes me 5 minutes more to do it. What meaningful choice is there in WoW? There isn't. People look up on the net exactly what spec to play and what talent choices for every fight. There has never been meaningful choices in WoW in regards to spec and talent choices.

No it doesn't. As mentioned before, some classes (such as mages and rogues) get nearly nothing from tri-spec. Others (such as warriors and priests) get limited benefits. Who does it benefit? Half the characters. The other half get to watch people having fun, using a property that they can't benefit from.

First off, if it improves the game by 1% for 1% of the people it is improving everything in theory because it is improving the game. Second of all, if it lets me tank which I wouldn't have done it makes the queue faster for your little DPS pure which improves the game for you. No you don't get a direct benefit from the system but you get a side benefit of reduced queue times.

I don't want to drag you through the same raid another couple weeks to gear up all three of your specs, when the rest of us already have all the gear we need. That also includes the bads in LFR. It's not fun for me to do the same raid even past "to death" because you aren't finished with it, even though everyone else is. And I can't imagine it's as much fun to get your third set of gear in the same raid, either. I'm guessing it's getting old. I'm guessing you'd rather be doing something else. I'm also not interested in taking you back through heroics or the raid to practice your third spec, when everyone else knows their job perfectly in both of theirs.

So uh..don't? If you're done with LFR why would you run it again? And if you're talking about a guild group it'd be up to your raid leader whether you keep running or don't and if you don't like how your RL runs things leave the guild. Nobody is forcing you to help gear up my character.

I don't want any guild that wants to try some progression to tell Bobby the Shaman, who has never healed, "Bobby, shamans are better at healing this fight than priests, so you have to heal this fight, and we know you can because tri-spec. Yes I know you've only ever done ranged and melee damage, but this fight needs shaman heals so you're going to provide them". I don't think that's fun for Bobby. And I doubt it's fun for a raid leader to tell someone to do something they're not good at and don't want to do, either. As someone who's done WotLK, I've heard this argument. "We need a disc priest because asborbs. Absorbs are OP for this raid." Now do that to every class in the game that can heal and/or tank. With tri-spec, it will happen. Saying "well just don't do it" isn't valid, because it will happen to other people.

Here again, if you have a RL that is forcing you to do something you're terrible at or don't want to do you should probably find a new guild. The RL can already do exactly what you're asking it would just take 10 minutes of downtimie for Bobby to respec.

I don't want to take the idea that classes are already built on a cookie-cutter spec, that so many people play very similar things, then remove any remaining barriers and make all paladins the same as all other paladins, all warriors the same as all others, etc. Even the barest whiff of uniqueness is more fun than being the same as everyone else.

They already ARE. I don't see why you don't get this. Adding the ability to save bars and freely swap is no different than the system in place already. The ONLY difference is it would save the person changing specs 5 minutes or less if they have the addon that saves bars.

I don't want a low-performing spec of a pure DPS class to be ignored, because all DPS can always run all 3 specs, therefore the class is fine. In a world with no specs, there'd be no reason to buff MM if Surv was doing well. Everyone would just switch to Surv, and people who like MM and don't like Surv can just not have fun.

Sorry but this has been Blizz's stance for years. They don't give two shits if destro is terrible in arena because you have affliction. In terms of PvE they have always tried to make all specs of a class equal so you could play what you wanted. This has nothing to do with the argument about freely swapping specs and more to do with Blizz.

Because sometimes choices are supposed to have impact. Consequences. Differences. There are supposed to be things you deliberately choose not to do. Having full access to everything all the time would (a) take too long and (b) be pretty bland and boring when you got it. WoW is about as streamlined for convenience as I've ever seen it: we have dual-spec, 310% on all mounts, pets and achieves are shared between toons, many profession specializations removed, etc. But there are still meaningful choices left, big ones, that affect how you play the game. Faction is one. PvP vs. PvE is another. Spec should be there, too.

As said above, the talent choice has never been about what to take and not take. Since the dawn of WoW people have looked up on forums what is the best spec and talent choice for the current tier. The decisions have never and will never matter.

What's stopping you from making a tank spec?

1) Go to trainer
2) Get rid of one of your specs
3) Learn new talents
4) Fix your bars
5) Queue as tank

Don't like tanking anymore? Go back and do it all over again. If you go to Stormwind/Ogrimmar/Dalaran for the AH, you can certainly stop by your class trainer.

Exactly, nothing is. I'm simply asking for the convenience of not having to do all that. I can do it now so there is no harm in letting me skip that boring waste of time.

[smartazjb0y]

How does it not benefit rogues/hunters/mages? Of COURSE it benefits them.It allows them to more easily switch between their specs.

The benefit to tri spec is one of CONVENIENCE. It doesn't affect gameplay AT ALL.

Stop thinking of it as tri-spec. Think of it as letting you choose which spec you want to play whenever. Want to play frost? Just choose the frost spec. Want to go fire? Click the fire spec button. Arcane? Well, click that button.

It's that simple. No negatives.

[Chrysia]

Its not about need. Its about fixing a weird and clunky system.

It works fine in Rift.

If by "works fine" you mean "results in broken soul combinations on a regular basis, with players cycling through fotm builds on a whim," then sure, it works "fine."

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How does it not benefit rogues/hunters/mages? Of COURSE it benefits them.It allows them to more easily switch between their specs.

The benefit to tri spec is one of CONVENIENCE. It doesn't affect gameplay AT ALL.

Stop thinking of it as tri-spec. Think of it as letting you choose which spec you want to play whenever. Want to play frost? Just choose the frost spec. Want to go fire? Click the fire spec button. Arcane? Well, click that button.

It's that simple. No negatives.

Negative, as pointed out before, is that now that you have that access to those specs at the click of a button, you are now expected to be proficient at all those specs, and every encounter has to be balanced around the fact that each of those specs is available at whim.

[Layuth]

That's your opinion and you're welcome to it but it is not mine. While a third spec is not needed it would be extremely convenient to me.

Isn't everything on these forums opinions?

[metatation]

To me the gold isn't the issue, even going to the trainer isn't the issue. Its the action bars. If blizz built in a setup for action bar saving/swapping that'd work too. The addon has issues from time to time and its I've had it screw up more than once in the 6 months I've been using it.

Main spec feral, off resto, but would like to have guardian on the sidelines.

Raid Leader: Hey, it would really help if you were survival spec for this fight instead of marks. If only there were a tri-spec option...
Hunter: <hearth><retrain>Warlock, can you resummon me, please?
Raid Leader: Oh, right. Never mind, we can already do this at will, it's just annoying.

Better yet:
Druid to raid leader "hey they allowed tri spec."
Raid leader: "Unless your a Druid, Paladin or monk GTFO and we are name changing the guild name to DPM."
Crazy but people actually think this would happen.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

If by "works fine" you mean "results in broken soul combinations on a regular basis, with players cycling through fotm builds on a whim," then sure, it works "fine."

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Negative, as pointed out before, is that now that you have that access to those specs at the click of a button, you are now expected to be proficient at all those specs, and every encounter has to be balanced around the fact that each of those specs is available at whim.

IN a serious reading guild that is already the case.

I mean works fine as in, having multiple slots for your souls doesn't hurt the game at all. You can already "cycle on a whim" in WoW, and FotM .. be serious.

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Better yet:
Druid to raid leader "hey they allowed tri spec."
Raid leader: "Unless your a Druid, Paladin or monk GTFO and we are name changing the guild name to DPM."
Crazy but people actually think this would happen.

I would call that paranoia, since you can already do that..

[Akilliez]

Do I want Tri-spec? Yes
Do I need Tri-Spec? No

Giving me Tri-spec would simply save me a trip to and from a city, it's a convenience. A Quality of life improvement.
Saying it would benefit Hybrids more than pure DPS classes and therefore should not be implemented is like saying " new mounts would benefit druids less than other classes, so we will not be adding any more mounts".

Bottom line, Tri-spec is pressing 1 button to save me having to push many buttons. It's a convenience that let's me play how I want, with less time/hassle involved.

[Vankrys]

What is the inherent reason to have only dual spec

because choices should matter in RPG.

[Drilnos]

If they added tri-spec, there would be calls to add quad-spec, followed shortly thereafter by 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9-spec, by the min-maxers looking to have a different talent/glyph setup for every individual boss and situation. Somebody, somewhere out there is always going to want one more spec, and the argument is always going to be "more convenience" and that there's "no reason not to."

There are reasons not to. Those reasons are philosophical in nature, regarding what it means to have a spec, and what goes into a character's identity. When a character can be anything at any time with the click of a button, something, intangible though it may be, is lost, and believe me it will be missed by a lot of people. We're talking about the obliteration of the concept of a "fire mage," or a "frost mage." They would all just be mages. Now put that concept to a bunch of people who agonize over whether the eyebrows of the new character models waggle just like the old ones. I don't imagine they'd be all that receptive.

[Akilliez]

because choices should matter in RPG.

How does the choice matter any more now?

"hmm, I feel like healing a dungeon"
/hearthstone
respec, re-arrange action bars
queue for dungeon as healer.

with trispec:
"hmm I feel like healing a dungeon"

Click 3rd spec button
queue for dungeon.

Choice hasn't mattered in a while.

[Vankrys]

How does the choice matter any more now?

"hmm, I feel like healing a dungeon"
/hearthstone
respec, re-arrange action bars
queue for dungeon as healer.

with trispec:
"hmm I feel like healing a dungeon"

Click 3rd spec button
queue for dungeon.

Choice hasn't mattered in a while.

yes but ...

at least you still have to choose your two specs or the consequenses are, well, you hearth back and switch spec.
You're right, they aren't that many hard choice in game now, but that doesn't mean the little choice still left in game should be removed.

[Deleted]

Bring back uni-spec. Want to respec? Get to a trainer and spend 50g.

[Daffan]

Dual spec was created because back in Vanilla, and even TBC, if you were a tank or a healer you had to respec just to farm. I don't believe it was ever intended to let you fit every role.

It really isn't really necessary now with all the talent/spec changes.

Yep. It was a hassle for HPriests etc etc.

[Dormie]

It was certainly tedious. Going all the way back to SW to change from prot pally to ret pally for that extra DPS on raids that only require 1 tank... very tedious.

As if I'm too stupid to just change from using a 2h proficiently to using a shield, where I literally have to be taught every time I want ti change LOL

It's tedious to tards that don't understand it. Before long, running dungeons will just be a 'tedious' way of earning gear. When was the last time your group disbanded because you couldn't down a dungeon? If you know your going to beat it, why not skip the 'tedious' mob grinding and just receive the gear straight away?

[Deleted]

and be expected to master

For exactly this reason I have the exact same spec in both spec slots.

[DPA]

For pure dps classes, (hunter/mages/rogues/warlocks), a tri-spec option would also require the 3 specs to perform optimally on the same stats, for it to be an available option, to switch between fights. Otherwise you'll still run into problems with reforging.

Same would go for balance/resto, holy/shadow etc.

If not, people would be required to bag 3 different armor sets reforged for every spec in order to play optimally.
Heal/dps classes already do this, but a tri-spec would only be more troublesome.

[PrairieChicken]

Tri spec has no disadvantages. If you don't like it don't use it. Can't understand why people oppose its implementation?