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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiDragon91 View Post
    WTF , ?? you high or something ??
    I doubt it, you aren't however catching his point - not that his point really matters, as it's not right - his point was that an undead would be unable to commune with the animals, which is required to tame them, but since all the Forsaken Hunter trainers have an animal companion next to them, that's clearly rubbish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You have got to be kidding me. That is the basis for the reason night elf mages were "never going to be playable", because they fucked over azeroth.
    Actually, it's the basis for them being playable - they were among the first real proper arcane spellcasters on Azeroth, however due to the War of the Ancients, they were obviously stigmatized and banned from ever using the arcane powers again, however prior to the Cataclysm, the Shen'dralar re-emerged to teach their kindred about the Arcane power, to help defend themselves from the coming Cataclysm, see it as a "fight fire with fire" thing.

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  2. #22
    Warchief godofslack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You have got to be kidding me. That is the basis for the reason night elf mages were "never going to be playable", because they fucked over azeroth.
    And Night Elves would of never allied with the Alliance if they still followed that motto, but when WoW came out and they shoved Forsaken and Night Elves into the Horde and Alliance respectively they disregarded much of their lore. WoW's very creation broke removed so much of the agency shown by the individual races in the Warcraft series the class additions and potential future ones have little to no effect on the amount of ret-conning done so far.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Which goes against everything in gnomish culture. Hunters are nothing to do with a bow they are to do with the bond with the animal, even if only one spec focuses on it.

    Add: Night elf mages, tauren priest/paladins.
    Gnome Priests are technically tech-savy combat medics with a few prayers.

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  4. #24
    To those saying Forsaken cannot be Hunters, I point you to Nathanos Blightcaller He's a forsaken hunter (was first human ranger before)

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    And yet, the Night Elf Magisters, who acted as envoys, and who went to Darnassus - came from Dire Maul/Eldre'Thalas. They aren't living out any penance at all, they simply just sought refuge; "The Shen'dralar were an obscure and secretive faction of Highborne who used to dwell in The Athenaeum within Dire Maul, before they returned to the elven society and now can be seen in Darnassus, training night elven mages. They are a remnant of the quel'dorei who once populated Dire Maul, or Eldre'Thalas, as it was known in antiquity." - http://wowpedia.org/Shen%27dralar ... So actually, YOU are wrong, and he's right, sucks huh?
    Mhm..tell me more about lore created post cataclysm...it's so good, I love how it's contributed to the greatest sublosses of all time.

    Really don't understand how any true warcraft fan can eat up all the trash blizzard's been churning out in the lore department the past few years. Some strange cross between fanboyism and burying your head in the sand.
    Last edited by Shiny212; 2013-09-26 at 07:20 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    Mhm..tell me more about lore created post cataclysm...it's so good, I love how it's contributed to the greatest sublosses of all time.

    Really don't understand how any true warcraft fan can eat up all the trash blizzard's been churning out in the lore department the past few years. Some strange cross between fanboyism and burying your head in the sand.
    Awwww! That's ADORABLE! I love the smell of butthurt in the morning... Smells like.... Well butt, but you get the point.

    You honestly think that the LORE contributed to the sublosses? That's hilarious, I'd be surprised if as much as 5% of the entire player base cared even the tiniest bit about the lore. Sure, Cataclysm was a mess, but it's still a cannonical mess - deal with it. Living in denial is unhealthy.

    Oh and speaking things that one can't quite understand, I can't quite understand why you are still on this forum honestly. Whenever I see that blond little avatar of yours pop up, I instantly know that it's a post saying "I hate Blizzard, they all suck now, and everyone who disagrees is a turds-munching sheep"... So very constructive.

    Oh and besides, most of the info in the article about the Shen'dralar is info that is from BEFORE Cataclysm... So yeah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xalzel View Post
    To those saying Forsaken cannot be Hunters, I point you to Nathanos Blightcaller He's a forsaken hunter (was first human ranger before)
    While you aren't wrong, you aren't right either. There are some issues between comparing the Ranger to the playable Hunter class.
    Last edited by Venziir; 2013-09-26 at 07:32 PM.

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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Awwww! That's ADORABLE! I love the smell of butthurt in the morning... Smells like.... Well butt, but you get the point.

    You honestly think that the LORE contributed to the sublosses? That's hilarious, I'd be surprised if as much as 5% of the entire player base cared even the tiniest bit about the lore. Sure, Cataclysm was a mess, but it's still a cannonical mess - deal with it. Living in denial is unhealthy.

    Oh and speaking things that one can't quite understand, I can't quite understand why you are still on this forum honestly. Whenever I see that blond little avatar of yours pop up, I instantly know that it's a post saying "I hate Blizzard, they all suck now, and everyone who disagrees is a turds-munching sheep"... So very constructive.

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    While you aren't wrong, you aren't right either. There are some issues between comparing the Ranger to the playable Hunter class.
    HAH I could say the same thing about your avatar, whenever I see that smashing greenskin I know you're going to go on some Blizzard-worshipping rant, defending whatever nonsensical trash they've come up with. I mainly frequent this forum to talk about other games and off-topic stuff, but once in a while I come here to throw some filth at blizzard for how they ruined a once-great franchise.

    And you're right, few people really care about the lore and read it in detail like you do, but the way stories and lore are represented ingame are integral parts of what makes any game great, the current lore/themes/designs ever since catalysm launched have been abysmal; call it opinion, but I'd wager a huge amount of veterans such as myself were severely put off by it. But who cares, they've got the blind fanboys to defend them on the forums, and the herd of sheep you speak of to keep them afloat.

    And really, there is virtually nothing constructive said about WoW on this forum.

  8. #28
    I think the reason why blood elfs can't be shaman or druid, is because they are all power hungry, (for arcane) which means that the idea of them going nature makes little sense. And as far as I'm aware (might be wrong) you don't chose to become a druid or shaman, you're kinda born with a connection to nature.
    Which means training someone is kinda hard.

    But one thing I don't understand is why Undead is so limited in there class, because to be honest shouldn't it be possible to ress all races to undead? and therefore all classes would be available.
    Or is there any lore reason the that fact all undeads a humans?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny212 View Post
    HAH I could say the same thing about your avatar, whenever I see that smashing greenskin I know you're going to go on some Blizzard-worshipping rant, defending whatever nonsensical trash they've come up with. I mainly frequent this forum to talk about other games and off-topic stuff, but once in a while I come here to throw some filth at blizzard for how they ruined a once-great franchise.

    And you're right, few people really care about the lore and read it in detail like you do, but the way stories and lore are represented ingame are integral parts of what makes any game great, the current lore/themes/designs ever since catalysm launched have been abysmal; call it opinion, but I'd wager a huge amount of veterans such as myself were severely put off by it. But who cares, they've got the blind fanboys to defend them on the forums, and the herd of sheep you speak of to keep them afloat.

    And really, there is virtually nothing constructive said about WoW on this forum.
    Again - so very healthy and mature.... And don't give me the "veteran" bullcrap, I've played this game longer than most. And sure, Cataclysm was... Well cataclysmic in more than one way, but sitting with a finger in each ear, acting like a pissy child does nothing really, other than make you seem *very* childish.

    My point in regards to the "Less than 5% care", was that not only do they not really care about the story at hand, they don't really care about how it's executed either, they just want to have fun.

    As for the "virtually nothing constructive", I beg to differ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Exsik View Post
    I think the reason why blood elfs can't be shaman or druid, is because they are all power hungry, (for arcane) which means that the idea of them going nature makes little sense. And as far as I'm aware (might be wrong) you don't chose to become a druid or shaman, you're kinda born with a connection to nature.
    Which means training someone is kinda hard.

    But one thing I don't understand is why Undead is so limited in there class, because to be honest shouldn't it be possible to ress all races to undead? and therefore all classes would be available.
    Or is there any lore reason the that fact all undeads a humans?
    It's a choice/test really. You call out to the Elements, if they respond - BINGO. If not, too bad - Thrall was taught for example, and Hamuul was taught.. As for druidism, it's more something along the lines of following the teachings and ideaology of Cenarius.

    Oh and as for the Forsaken classes, well, the playable undead are all humans, simply because you play an undead Lordaeron denizen. Surely, dwarves, elves and gnomes lived in Lordaeron too, but we are talking a very small percentage here.

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  10. #30
    Alright wasn't aware that it was a choise/test.. but when it comes to forsaken, a lot of horde died in the siege shouldn't be possible to ress them and have a Orc undead shaman..
    Because to me seems like there is missing a reason to why forsaken is only is humans.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Exsik View Post
    Alright wasn't aware that it was a choise/test.. but when it comes to forsaken, a lot of horde died in the siege shouldn't be possible to ress them and have a Orc undead shaman..
    Because to me seems like there is missing a reason to why forsaken is only is humans.
    The Siege of Orgrimmar? NO ONE would permit Sylvanas raising them, and I doubt the Elements would still answer an abomination. Oh and I gave you a reason a to why the Forsaken are all humans (minus Sylvanas, her Dark Rangers, a couple of Banshees and that creepy Gnome in Undercity) - They are (un)dead humans of Lordaeron.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    The Siege of Orgrimmar? NO ONE would permit Sylvanas raising them, and I doubt the Elements would still answer an abomination. Oh and I gave you a reason a to why the Forsaken are all humans (minus Sylvanas, her Dark Rangers, a couple of Banshees and that creepy Gnome in Undercity) - They are (un)dead humans of Lordaeron.
    Yeah but logic behind them only being from lordaeron is a bit broken..
    because as far as I know there were no hunters in lordaeron, (rangers yes, but not really hunters) or monks..
    It made sense in Vanila, but now it doesn't really make the same sense.
    Also most of Lorderaon wasn't warriors or mages, most of them was citizens with not skill at all at fighting.
    Last edited by Cynical Exsik; 2013-09-26 at 08:00 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Exsik View Post
    Yeah but logic behind them only being for lordaeron is a bit broken..
    because as far as I know there were no hunters in lordaeron, (rangers yes, but not really hunters) or monks..
    It made sense in Vanila, but now it doesn't really make the same sense.
    Also most of Lorderaon wasn't warriors or mages, most of them was citizens with not skill at all at fighting.
    Well, as far as we know *cough cough* - ALL Forsaken Hunters are trained by either Nathanos or Sylvanas' Dark Rangers.
    The Monks are trained by the Pandaren Envoy in Death Knell - Why a Pandaren would go there to teach kung fu to zombies I DO NOT KNOW!

    And yes, a great deal of the Lordaeron people were indeed just farmers and standard citizens, however Lordaeron was also one of the strongest, biggest and wealthiest human kingdoms, it had plenty of magisters and soldiers, not to mention that most of the Forsaken Mages were from Dalaran, a close neighbour to Dalaran. And supposedly, the Forsaken when they rise are "classless", they start their training after they were risen - but yes, there are plenty of plotholes.

    The main reason is obviously that having the Forsaken player models being anything other than just humans would've taken longer time and caused whining from the Alliance players and other race players.


    Oh and of course, there's the sad, but obvious truth; Gameplay > Lore. Blizzard is after all a company that makes games, not movies or books (primarily). Gameplay comes first, then comes the story. They aren't Bioware who wants story first, then game, which has just as many pro's and cons as any other way of making games.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    its not that simple. it just doesnt work lorewise. if anything they should be druids before shamans
    I don't think lore matters anymore, seeing as we have some pretty strange combos in the game currently. I'm hoping Blizzard will one day change it so every race can be every class. Might as well. I want to be a gnome shaman!

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Ok guys, I get it if you actually accept ret cons it makes sense, doesn't mean it fits the lore 4 years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Ok guys, I get it if you actually accept ret cons it makes sense, doesn't mean it fits the lore 4 years ago.
    There's a clear difference between a retcon, a change and story progression. And "accept" retcons? Grow up, it's not a matter of acceptable, it's a matter og realizing that goes on.

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  17. #37
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    If anything id like them to start removing race combos. Goblin Shaman is about as fitting as Gnome Shaman.

    I could see a scenario for Blood Elves to become Dark Shaman. I can see some, not satisfied with leeching the arcane anymore, they turn to something more powerful and turn to enslaving the elements.

    Problem is, do we really want blood elves playing Shaman.

    I dont.
    Last edited by Murderdoll; 2013-09-26 at 09:33 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    I doubt it, you aren't however catching his point - not that his point really matters, as it's not right - his point was that an undead would be unable to commune with the animals, which is required to tame them, but since all the Forsaken Hunter trainers have an animal companion next to them, that's clearly rubbish.
    Nay, I was talking about what "shouldn't" happen. Undead hunters make as much sense as undead holy priests, forsaken or not, does not change shit.

    And again, taming and dominating animals is just one aspect of a hunters arsenal of nature magic(though it's not logical for the undead to be able to communicate with animals as well), you should not ignore the rest. Undead and nature will never fit together.
    Last edited by madokbro; 2013-09-26 at 09:39 PM.

  19. #39
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    Yes please, druid too.

    For any lore concerns please address your local Tauren paladin.

  20. #40
    These threads are not a good idea, because they're always filled with people who either believe the lore is inflexible, or just don't even card about the lore for certain additions and instantly dismiss them as ridiculous. (Sun walkers, Gnome medics,etc.) People being stupid on MMOC? My god!

    Anyway, more on topic, Blood Elf Shaman made MORE sense as something the old Blood Elf mentality would do to feed their need for magic. If the demons didn't answer, maybe they could barter with the elements. However, nowadays the best I can come up with is valves that are more in touch with their horde comrade's culture, but I'm sure there's a better explanation.

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