Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    How can I get my gm to listen?

    So, my gm currently is a warlock. He has been all expansion. The problem is, he seems to be of the sound mind that destro is the best spec and the affliction nerf made it worse then destro. I told him it changed literally nothing single target and that destro is still worse then affliction, but he doesn't seem to care. I even told him all the best warlocks and simers say affliction is top, but still nothing. To make matters worse, he is honestly going to try to go from the KJC talent to Archi (double darksoul) talent, as destro. I told him its a dps lose and he may gain only one extra use of dark soul but I can't seem to get through. Does anyone know how I can get him to listen?

  2. #2
    The Patient
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Where the wind carry my wings
    Posts
    318
    Maybe you shouldn't...
    If he's a skilled player, the margin between one spec he's used to and another spec slightly better but unfamiliar to him is unlikely to change your progress rate.
    Is he the lowest dps of your raid ? If not, why should you try to push him in a spec he doesn't like for a very slight upgrade ?

  3. #3
    Well-played favourite spec > poorly-played top spec.
    Also unless you're racing for world firsts, surely it's more important to play what you enjoy, for fun?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    So, my gm currently is a warlock. He has been all expansion. The problem is, he seems to be of the sound mind that destro is the best spec and the affliction nerf made it worse then destro. I told him it changed literally nothing single target and that destro is still worse then affliction, but he doesn't seem to care. I even told him all the best warlocks and simers say affliction is top, but still nothing. To make matters worse, he is honestly going to try to go from the KJC talent to Archi (double darksoul) talent, as destro. I told him its a dps lose and he may gain only one extra use of dark soul but I can't seem to get through. Does anyone know how I can get him to listen?
    before 560 item level Destruction is simming as the best single target spec currently (World of Logs would seem to suggest otherwise however, but there's no way to know what peoples gear etc is). Affliction is also reliant on trinkets. Fel Flame filler is barely worse than Incinerate so Archimonde's Darkness when used well is a far better talent choice.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  5. #5
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    31
    It's always the same: play the specc you're the best at.
    It depends on the players skills and the encounter to decide which specc you should choose, they are (except of heavy aoe) pretty close.
    For instance our last raid evening:
    hc protectors: i pulld 340k (as destruction) and our affliction 327
    nhc iron juggernaut: 270k vs 257k It's still a matter of personal skill and some rng. Switching to archimonds can definitely be a dps gain. You'll be able to line it up much more efficient with proccs (bindings offset..). Even if affliction is the to go specc i would not switch, because i'm simply perfoming better as a well played destruction than as an average played affliction.
    Just my sent 2 cents.
    Last edited by Maokk; 2013-09-27 at 09:51 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Phyl View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't...
    If he's a skilled player, the margin between one spec he's used to and another spec slightly better but unfamiliar to him is unlikely to change your progress rate.
    Is he the lowest dps of your raid ? If not, why should you try to push him in a spec he doesn't like for a very slight upgrade ?
    Today on the first boss after general nazgrim he was bottom dps, but above tanks. He hasn't been the top dps this entire patch so far. Whats worse is our affliction lock (in lower gear) does beat him in dps. I know that your favorite spec can help and usually it doesn't matter, however, we did almost hit berserk with both tanks above 120K. We have another lock who is affliction at this moment, but was destro and was beating him with gear 8ilevels lower. Still, even if the favorite spec will win, I need a way to at least get him to reforge properly. He has haste on pieces without reforging out of it and has even gone into it in one case.

  7. #7
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Scandinavia
    Posts
    2,494
    Unless he wants to spend a few days hitting dummies, he'll do more DPS in a familiar spec that sims a bit lower than an unfamiliar one that sims a bit higher.

    As for talents, I'd say it's a good thing when someone actually tries the different talents rather than just going with what someone said was better. KJC is obviously very useful on many fights, but not every fight involves a lot of movement. For example, a class that can teleport (mages, locks, monks, druids) barely has to move at all on Norushen. AD seems like a sensible choice for any fight that's mostly stationary and has a burn phase, like Norushen, Sha, and Galakras. It's also handy on any fight where you sometimes can't DPS (Galakras, Nazgrim), as you don't lose DS uptime by saving it.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Today on the first boss after general nazgrim he was bottom dps, but above tanks. He hasn't been the top dps this entire patch so far. Whats worse is our affliction lock (in lower gear) does beat him in dps. I know that your favorite spec can help and usually it doesn't matter, however, we did almost hit berserk with both tanks above 120K. We have another lock who is affliction at this moment, but was destro and was beating him with gear 8ilevels lower. Still, even if the favorite spec will win, I need a way to at least get him to reforge properly. He has haste on pieces without reforging out of it and has even gone into it in one case.
    simcraft atm is telling me to reforge haste for some reason as Destro, maybe that's why he's doing it. although, to be honest the problem seems to be that he sucks, rather than his spec does.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  9. #9
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    France, Illidan-EU
    Posts
    1,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    To make matters worse, he is honestly going to try to go from the KJC talent to Archi (double darksoul) talent, as destro. I told him its a dps lose and he may gain only one extra use of dark soul but I can't seem to get through.
    AD is better than KJC on some fights, and on other fights it's the other way around, you can't just say that one is better than the other.
    Android App : World of Quizzcraft
    Test your knowledge of WoW with 1200 questions and 80 achievements!

    Inactive since 09/2013

  10. #10
    I've been destruction on several fights and I've beaten both of the other locks and they were affliction/demonology. Could you link his armory? Destro has very good AoE so it's good on some fights like Galakras and Sha of Pride, destro isn't so far under affliction DPS wise... According to sim I have better single target dps as destruction with ilvl 560 gear by 1k.

    And is he raid leading? Sometimes if you're raid leading you got to focus on other things like calling out things.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Samerius View Post
    I've been destruction on several fights and I've beaten both of the other locks and they were affliction/demonology. Could you link his armory? Destro has very good AoE so it's good on some fights like Galakras and Sha of Pride, destro isn't so far under affliction DPS wise... According to sim I have better single target dps as destruction with ilvl 560 gear by 1k.

    And is he raid leading? Sometimes if you're raid leading you got to focus on other things like calling out things.
    Not sure hed like me linking his armory. But he doesn't call anything out. Doesn't talk even in vent. So defiantly him.

  12. #12
    Honestly, since you're still in normals, it doesn't sound like your guild is of the cutting edge kind and therefore that the players in it aren't of the cutting edge kind either. In my experience, with such guilds, (which I have been a part of on my alt because I sincerely do enjoy the different mindset from my main's hardcore raiding, so no hate or anything), you should be happy that he does any kind of DPS at all, no matter the spec.

    People are grossly overstating how equally well destro is to affliction here, by the way, and just ignore the sims for a second. The main problem destro has, is its very low skillcap as opposed to affliction, where affliction can pull such heavy numbers if you're really good. There's no beating a good (geared) aff lock even after the nerf by any class, honestly. By geared I mean mostly trinkets, which make a huge difference. That said, multidotting is so incredibly strong at the moment (protectors (if that's what they're called, the softfoot guy and company), general nazgrim), that Destro's aoe is really of no importance and a lot of classes do a better job on the few fights which do require constant aoe (heroic shamans, the guy that flies in the air with the towers and shit (I'm so good with names )).

    Archimonde's Darkness is a very solid talent. As Affliction, I have found only 2 or 3 fights to favor KJC, and I honestly don't see why this would be different for Destro (but meh, I may be wrong).

    Nonetheless, if he's barely above your 120k tanks, his dps is low. That sounds more like a player issue than a spec issue in short, and as someone pointed out, if you're not very good at aff, destro will be equally good if not better.
    Last edited by Cirque; 2013-09-27 at 10:26 AM.

  13. #13
    If he's that low as destro, switching to affliction isn't going to change a thing.

  14. #14
    Yeah I'd say find the "easiest" lock spec to play, or whichever he enjoys more, and try to teach him how to play that properly.

    Reforge/gem/talents will not have near the same impact as him actually performing his rotation well.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Blitzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliessil View Post
    Well-played favourite spec > poorly-played top spec.
    Also unless you're racing for world firsts, surely it's more important to play what you enjoy, for fun?
    That's the same as someone not willing to change > Someone willing to change. It's just wrong.

    Raiding is about fun, yes, but when you wipe at 5-10% in the cases you wouldn't have because one player decides to mess up the group, then go ahead.
    “It is either easy or impossible.” - Salvador Dali

    WoW characters:
    Greed [Priest] -
    Jax [Paladin] -
    Vega [Rogue]

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    The Lonely Mountain
    Posts
    513
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post
    Honestly, since you're still in normals, it doesn't sound like your guild is of the cutting edge kind and therefore that the players in it aren't of the cutting edge kind either. In my experience, with such guilds, (which I have been a part of on my alt because I sincerely do enjoy the different mindset from my main's hardcore raiding, so no hate or anything), you should be happy that he does any kind of DPS at all, no matter the spec.

    People are grossly overstating how equally well destro is to affliction here, by the way, and just ignore the sims for a second. The main problem destro has, is its very low skillcap as opposed to affliction, where affliction can pull such heavy numbers if you're really good. There's no beating a good (geared) aff lock even after the nerf by any class, honestly. By geared I mean mostly trinkets, which make a huge difference. That said, multidotting is so incredibly strong at the moment (protectors (if that's what they're called, the softfoot guy and company), general nazgrim), that Destro's aoe is really of no importance and a lot of classes do a better job on the few fights which do require constant aoe (heroic shamans, the guy that flies in the air with the towers and shit (I'm so good with names )).

    Archimonde's Darkness is a very solid talent. As Affliction, I have found only 2 or 3 fights to favor KJC, and I honestly don't see why this would be different for Destro (but meh, I may be wrong).

    Nonetheless, if he's barely above your 120k tanks, his dps is low. That sounds more like a player issue than a spec issue in short, and as someone pointed out, if you're not very good at aff, destro will be equally good if not better.
    What fights do you use KJC on? :S
    <Duality> Zul'jin 7/7 Mythic

    Furty
    | Ciri | Badwolf | Furtysmage

    Twitter | Twitch - Streaming Challenge Modes, Mythic Raids, and more!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Phyl View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't...
    If he's a skilled player, the margin between one spec he's used to and another spec slightly better but unfamiliar to him is unlikely to change your progress rate.
    Is he the lowest dps of your raid ? If not, why should you try to push him in a spec he doesn't like for a very slight upgrade ?
    If he was a skilled player, he would pick the best spec for each fight, period.

  18. #18
    The Patient
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Where the wind carry my wings
    Posts
    318
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    If he was a skilled player, he would pick the best spec for each fight, period.
    Such a reductive view !
    It depends on your level of involvement in the content, on the level you're playing (flex / norm / hero).
    I seriously doubt that, if he was beaten by another player in the same spec with less ilvl, the problem comes from the spec he's playing.
    Anyway, sometimes it's better to try to find the REAL source of the problem instead of saying "yeah yeah whatever change spec period".

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk Martyn 470's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Everywhere, and nowhere.
    Posts
    1,896
    On non movement fights, Archimonde's is better.

    Also, if youre comfortable with a spec, you will always perform better than a spec which does more dps.
    i'm a 540 warlock with afflic and destro, my dps with destro is significantly better than afflic, despite following afflictions rotation religiously, purely because i'm used to playing destro.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirque View Post

    People are grossly overstating how equally well destro is to affliction here, by the way, and just ignore the sims for a second. The main problem destro has, is its very low skillcap as opposed to affliction, where affliction can pull such heavy numbers if you're really good.

    I don't think this is true. The difference between a skilled Destro lock and an unskilled one is huge.

    The spec is easy to learn but takes skill to master. Not as much skill as watching a DoT timer, true....

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •