Government Shutting Down

[Deleted]

Shutting down the government isn't holding the nation hostage. It's the result of both parties not coming to a solution.

People really need to stop blaming Republicans for this 100%.

Actually, it is. You see there is a time for debating the what and how when creating laws. That time has gone. And stomping your feet on the ground shouting "nah nah nah", really is not part of the democratic process.
Man, I know they might be the guys you vote for but this isn't a football match. This isn't your team, look at things from an external perspective and you'll see you can't do anything else apart, I'm sorry to say, blaming that particular group of republicans. Sorry mate I understand it might be difficult to swallow but this time they fucked up.
It's embarrassing on an international level, expensive, useless, it creates discontent, harms the faith people have in institutions... You can't just do that.

The law is approved. They lost this one, accept it and move on.

[frumper]

Beautiful. Now you see the idiocy of the House Republican position.
This bill doesn't even affect ACA. That's why the exchanges are running now.
They are just using his bill as extortion because it's the only thing they have left.

The bill does affect the ACA. The lack of a bill doesn't. That is why the bill won't pass, it added an amendment to remove funding to the ACA.

[Chrysia]

1) Democrats obviously didn't want a single-payer system, otherwise they would have voted for one.

2) But... but... I thought this was about the ACA! In any case, the budget is quite obviously an issue that can be negotiated over. I haven't seen any Democrats make an offer of, say, scaled back sequestration, in exchange for the delays that Republicans are asking for.

That's because the Republicans have refused to talk about the budget for 6 months. Reid has offered to go to conference for the 19th time, but only after the House reopens the government for 6 weeks. They won't enter negotiations while the government is shutdown.

[Tinykong]

The how isn't effected by the shutdown either.

It's not, but Obamacare isn't "paid for," we just have a plan in place to do so.

[frumper]

The how isn't effected by the shutdown either.

The passage of the bill would change the how. The lack of passage would have not have an effect.

[GennGreymane]

Is it revolution time yet?

[KingHorse]

You're still confused. Review the posts, you'll get it. I know you're smart enough.

This is just a shitty attitude. My only excuse is, as stated before, I'm actually right now moving all of my furniture. Hot and sweaty and all that.

So I'll clarify for you NYC. I said that the Republicans had made at least three offers. I showed you the link that said so. Then you said I had proved nothing, so I pointed out that I had linked that link three times. So, three things, three times. We clear on it now? You've been confused the whole time, likely due to your admitted lack of attention.

[bergmann620]

Actually, it is. You see there is a time for debating the what and how when creating laws. That time has gone. And stomping your feet on the ground shouting "nah nah nah", really is not part of the democratic process.

So, when we run out of time, we just pass whatever is on the table? Sorry, I'm not getting on board that train.

[NYC17]

You're still confused. Review the posts, you'll get it. I know you're smart enough.

It's not about my intellect. It's about your inability to not conflate your arguments.

And shots fired on Capitol Hill...

Sigh.

[jugzilla]

What we have here is simply a reaction of the way the Democrats acted when they controled the legistlative and executive branches. There was not any republican input, none of the republican recommendations to decrease costs were even considered. They didn't need it, or want it. It was a monster of a bill that no one even understood when they voted on it. Remember Nancy Pelosi "We have to pass the bill before you find out what is in it." The voting was purely on party lines, in the middle of the night, and with the Senate breaking its own rules to pass it under reconciliation.

There was a backlash, the tea party formed mainly because of the outragous way this bill was rammed down our throats, and in 2010, and the Dems got their ass kicked in the house. These people were voted in explicitly because the promised to do all they could to repeal this monster. And that lead was held onto in 2012, and is projected to be held in 2014.

Now I do have a bad feeling that the republicans are sort of relying on brute force with this shutdown. There is no clear leader in the party atm, wich usually is what happens when the president isn't of your party. At the end of the day, this will be resolved, we won't even remember this shut down a month from now

[KingHorse]

Is it revolution time yet?

About 35 years ago. The hippies screwed it all up. They could have done it.

[Deleted]

So, when we run out of time, we just pass whatever is on the table? Sorry, I'm not getting on board that train.

Your loss. In a democratic system, the law that's "passing on the table" has to be reviewed, debated, changed, reviewed, voted and so on and on.
So it's not "whatever is on the table". This is democracy.
Let me know if you find a better system.

[bergmann620]

That's because the Republicans have refused to talk about the budget for 6 months. Reid has offered to go to conference for the 19th time, but only after the House reopens the government for 6 weeks. They won't enter negotiations while the government is shutdown.

How is that any better? The Republicans are 'holding the government hostage' by not passing a bill, but Reid is 'holding the negotiations hostage' by refusing to enter them.

[Chrysia]

So, when we run out of time, we just pass whatever is on the table? Sorry, I'm not getting on board that train.

What's on the table is a 6 week extension of current level funding. It isn't exactly asking for the moon.

[Tinykong]

Actually, it is. You see there is a time for debating the what and how when creating laws. That time has gone. And stomping your feet on the ground shouting "nah nah nah", really is not part of the democratic process.
Man, I know they might be the guys you vote for but this isn't a football match. This isn't your team, look at things from an external perspective and you'll see you can't do anything else apart, I'm sorry to say, blaming that particular group of republicans. Sorry mate I understand it might be difficult to swallow but this time they fucked up.
It's embarrassing on an international level, expensive, useless, it creates discontent, harms the faith people have in institutions... You can't just do that.

The law is approved. They lost this one, accept it and move on.

I'll reiterate because it's been a hot second: I'm not a Republican.

The nation isn't being held hostage. 800k people aren't at work. That's what, 0.01% of the population? A lot of other shit is shut down. It's not good. That doesn't translate into a hostage situation, so you can dial down the hyperbole.

[random296]

Reports of shots just fired at Capitol Hill. People goin' crazy. Time to move.

As if this wasn't enough of a national embarassment, now we have another crazy taking pot shots at people.

[Pitkanen]

Last time I looked at a poll a few weeks back, Obama care approval was like 40 something pecent.

Yes, but make sure to leave out the percent of the population that didn't approve of obamacare because they wanted universal healthcare. Because selective number choice is a great way to mislead.

[bergmann620]

Your loss. In a democratic system, the law that's "passing on the table" has to be reviewed, debated, changed, reviewed, voted and so on and on.
So it's not "whatever is on the table". This is democracy.
Let me know if you find a better system.

I'm fine with the system. Democrats are the ones freaking out.

[Chrysia]

How is that any better? The Republicans are 'holding the government hostage' by not passing a bill, but Reid is 'holding the negotiations hostage' by refusing to enter them.

Negotiations the Republicans have refused to enter for 6 fucking months!

[Tinykong]

How is that any better? The Republicans are 'holding the government hostage' by not passing a bill, but Reid is 'holding the negotiations hostage' by refusing to enter them.

Clearly, on these boards, Democrats saying "NU-UH!!" and refusing to compromise is okay.