1. #1481
    Pandaren Monk Hellravager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    1,993
    So i've heard on the news that the obama care crap that they're trying to do costs like 700 per month for a family of 4
    "When we're done, i want that cage...for....reasons."
    "You have a gift really. You make things want to kill you, It's a gift really."
    Make him touch your crotch and say "Say hello to my Tofu-san."

  2. #1482
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    See, the thing is that, while the consequences of a shutdown aren't as obvious as, say, a terrorist attack or an oil spill, or dire to individual citizens, they do exist, and they will manifest, and depending on how long the shutdown lasts, it will hurt the economy fairly significantly. And that's not getting into the possibility of the Tea Partiers in the House taking the debt ceiling hostage and forcing a default in two and a half weeks.
    Hmm...wonder if my fiancee is going to lose her insurance because of this. She has insurance through www.pciplan.com if they fail to process her check payment through the mail this could be a major problem.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellravager View Post
    So i've heard on the news that the obama care crap that they're trying to do costs like 700 per month for a family of 4
    There are subsides depending on income I believe.

  3. #1483
    Quote Originally Posted by Quixdraw View Post
    Even when stated from a source you refuse to take it on its face. I would love nothing more than to copy/paste the memo she received, but she would get fired if I did so. One does not have to look far to find the problems that this is going to have on a system that is already screwed. Thing is she is very lucky the she is not getting her hours cut, not loosing her job over this. The Hospital has not been replacing the employees that leave or retire, since it is a teaching hospital they are also cutting back on student enrollment into many of doctor specialties. They are trying very hard to soften the blow to the existing personal working there.

    You aren't a source. The "free market" is doing what it does. The flaw you are ignoring is employers deciding health coverage. Yet, you have no problem railing about government.

    So once again, sigh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Macedonicus View Post
    No, I'm pretty sure I was asking someone to back up their all knowing claims that polls clearly support that the Republican party will be heavily damaged by a government shutdown... with an unbiased source. I would like to see the impossible. That'd be nice. At least then there will be irrefutable proof, but I suppose we'll have to wait for an election for that.
    Someone said "the polls show". You then demanded to see unbiased polls, why later declaring you can show all polls are biased. You're qualifying something, and demanding someone show it to you with the qualification caveat, then at the same time, declaring what you are demanding doesn't exist. You're manufacturing an argument and not understanding why its flawed.

    Do go on...

  4. #1484
    The Insane smrund's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    15,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellravager View Post
    So i've heard on the news that the obama care crap that they're trying to do costs like 700 per month for a family of 4
    My co-worker pays 800/mo for private insurance for a family of 4.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    Sometimes life gives you lemons, other times life gives you boobies. Life is always better with more boobies.
    Blizzard removed my subscription from WoD's features, it'll be added sometime later.
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  5. #1485
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    well kids the government is officially shut down now.. and despite the stars being dimmer and all of the streets have vanished.. you can pretty much expect no noticeable difference in your daily life.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...own-will-work/
    Unless of course you happen to work for the government. Fuck those people though, right? They don't deserve to work, or get paid, because you don't agree with what they do.

    Freeedddommmmm!!!!

  6. #1486
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    Unless of course you happen to work for the government. Fuck those people though, right? They don't deserve to work, or get paid, because you don't agree with what they do.

    Freeedddommmmm!!!!
    Or government contractors. Or wanted to visit a national park or museum. Or run a business in DC, which apparently looses over 200million a day from this shutdown. Awesomesauce.

    Every week is going to drop .3% growth off of the economy? Awesome!
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So if the states get together and work with the Legislative Branch to write an amendment to the federal constitution, you think the Judiciary (SCOTUS) could strike it down for being 'unconstitutional'?
    Uh...yes. Absolutely.

  7. #1487
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northwest USA
    Posts
    2,708
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    My co-worker pays 800/mo for private insurance for a family of 4.
    so what this amounts to.. is that Obamacare costs an awful lot for very little return

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    Unless of course you happen to work for the government. Fuck those people though, right? They don't deserve to work, or get paid, because you don't agree with what they do.

    Freeedddommmmm!!!!
    you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

  8. #1488
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The Anti-Frost Mage Camp.
    Posts
    16,967
    Despite the unfortunate nature of the shutdown, I have every confidence that this will turn out to be a victory for the Democrats.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  9. #1489
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellravager View Post
    So i've heard on the news that the obama care crap that they're trying to do costs like 700 per month for a family of 4
    that is way too much imo - republican vs democrat is the reason this country is in the shitter - i wish one side would just outright win and we push one agenda... I used to like the republican agenda but its hard for any person that uses common sense to remain loyal.

  10. #1490
    Bloodsail Admiral Zaydin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    FL, USA
    Posts
    1,092
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post

    you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation
    Unless they work paycheck to paycheck, in which case, they are absolutely screwed.

  11. #1491
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation
    Only essential workers are guaranteed back pay, because they are actually working. Non-essential workers receiving payment for the time they are furloughed is up to congress when they actually start funding the government again.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So if the states get together and work with the Legislative Branch to write an amendment to the federal constitution, you think the Judiciary (SCOTUS) could strike it down for being 'unconstitutional'?
    Uh...yes. Absolutely.

  12. #1492
    Bloodsail Admiral
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    America
    Posts
    1,186
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    You aren't a source. The "free market" is doing what it does. The flaw you are ignoring is employers deciding health coverage. Yet, you have no problem railing about government.

    So once again, sigh.
    except for the cost of the policy she has, the actual contents have not changed in the almost 15 years she has had the policy, until now. So tell me how that is..
    Last edited by Tarawa; 2013-10-01 at 06:12 AM.

  13. #1493
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    The Anti-Frost Mage Camp.
    Posts
    16,967
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    you understand that they will get back pay? all this amounts to is a 2 week paid vacation
    You understand that a furlough is UNPAID leave by definition? Back pay doesn't alleviate the fact that they have no income at the present, nor does it alleviate any of the indirect detriments that the shutdown will bring.

    The amount of ignorance and disrespect you and many Americans have for civil servants is disgusting, quite frankly.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  14. #1494
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    well kids the government is officially shut down now.. and despite the stars being dimmer and all of the streets have vanished.. you can pretty much expect no noticeable difference in your daily life.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...own-will-work/
    And yet some in my family who are civilian government employees won't be able to work tomorrow and might not be able to for awhile depending on how long this thing lasts. So yeah for them it could be highly noticeable if it were to last lets say 21 days like the one during 95-96. Also it doesn't matter if they get back pay or not, if bills come up that they have trouble paying due to not having the money right now the bill collectors aren't going to care and will charge a late fee.
    Last edited by CrimsonKing; 2013-10-01 at 06:13 AM.

  15. #1495
    If people are curious about what the real numbers are you can go check them out instead of throwing out what you heard from the news or someone else.

    California has had a working website with the actual numbers for over a month at http://www.coveredca.com

    and it looks like this link will help any other states.

    https://www.healthcare.gov/marketplace/individual/


    for Hellravager, 2 40 year old parents + 2 kids, plans start at around $450/mo for the family, then you'll get a subsidy to reduce that amount lower if you make under $80k or so.

    An example, at $40k, that family of four plans start at $111/mo.

  16. #1496
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northwest USA
    Posts
    2,708
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Or government contractors. Or wanted to visit a national park or museum. Or run a business in DC, which apparently looses over 200million a day from this shutdown. Awesomesauce.

    Every week is going to drop .3% growth off of the economy? Awesome!
    I just paid $80 for my NPS annual pass.. naturally the next day I saw the article about the NPS creating video documentaries about how Islam has benefited women's rights...

    if the economy drops by .3% every week because of a government shutdown.. that means we spend too much on government

    and seriously.. DC is the wealthiest per capita area in the entire nation.. I'm pretty sure DC will survive this tragedy..
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

  17. #1497
    Quote Originally Posted by NYC17 View Post
    Unless of course you happen to work for the government. Fuck those people though, right? They don't deserve to work, or get paid, because you don't agree with what they do.

    Freeedddommmmm!!!!
    why the Freeedddommmmm!!!! comment? makes you look immature much like the kids that say MERICA or something similar. Please stop.

  18. #1498
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    No, it didn't make it out of the Senate Finance Committee because of backroom deals and counting up votes. I'd like you to show me the proof that the Democrats removed the Single Payer option just because.
    There was never any "Single Payer option," that wasn't even on the table to begin with and for largely political reasons. The public insurance option, essentially a program that would be part of the exchanges in order to control costs, was part of the House bill but not the Senate.

    During the mark up of the bill, the Senate basically acted as a 60-seat legislature that operated under unanimous consent; the Republicans would not accept anything, and the only way for any bill or amendment to the bill to pass was if all 60 Democrats voted in the affirmative. Some Senators, notably Max Baucus, Kent Conrad, and Ben Nelson publicly balked at the inclusion of such a program (Nelson went so far as to call it a "dealbreaker") because it received intense opposition from certain lobbyists; not just the insurance sector (as they were opposed to pretty much everything), but lobbyists for hospital associations who didn't want another Federal program through which they would only be partially reimbursed.

    All systems have stakeholders, or groups invested in the status quo, and reforming any given system means either beating those stakeholders or dulling their fervor to maintain that status quo. The pre-ACA healthcare system basically had four stakeholder groups; insurance (both public and private, profit and non-profit), private care providers (doctors, hospitals, nurses, etc), suppliers (like drug companies and DME sellers), and regulators in the form of state insurance commissioners. Some of those stakeholders could be beaten in 2009/2010, and some couldn't be beaten and basically had to be bought off or appeased in some other fashion. The reason why the exchanges are state based on not federally-based was to appease the state insurance commissioners. The reason why drug patents were made more favorable to drug manufacturers was to appease the pharmaceutical lobby. And the reason why the public option was dropped was to appease the private care providers. The rest were beaten.

  19. #1499
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    I just paid $80 for my NPS annual pass.. naturally the next day I saw the article about the NPS creating video documentaries about how Islam has benefited women's rights...

    if the economy drops by .3% every week because of a government shutdown.. that means we spend too much on government

    and seriously.. DC is the wealthiest per capita area in the entire nation.. I'm pretty sure DC will survive this tragedy..
    You don't understand how the economy works. Tourism is a thing. Museums/Destinations are a thing. People visiting different parks buy stuff in that region, and benefit the economy.

    If visa's aren't granted the US looses a ton of money from foreigners (tourists) who want to come here for a vacation.

    Your suggestion that we 'spend too much on government' because suddenly having another million people without money to buy things like food/shelter is just a giant clue that you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So if the states get together and work with the Legislative Branch to write an amendment to the federal constitution, you think the Judiciary (SCOTUS) could strike it down for being 'unconstitutional'?
    Uh...yes. Absolutely.

  20. #1500
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Northwest USA
    Posts
    2,708
    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKing View Post
    And yet some in my family who are civilian government employees won't be able to work tomorrow and might not be able to for awhile depending on how long this thing lasts. So yeah for them it could be highly noticeable if it were to last lets say 21 days like the one during 95-96.
    my dad and two of my brothers work for the Post Office.. and guess what.. they're going to work tomorrow..

    and yeah it's a bummer that your family members have to deal with a delayed paycheck.. but that's life.. people have issues.. and just because you work for the federal government does not mean you should be immune to harm when the people running the show screw up
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •