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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Because they are a dps race, if you dont kill the Dark shaman fast enough you will not have room to kite them, in nazgrim if you dont have enough dps you will be flooded with adds. 496ilvl is way to low for SoO lfr in the current state.
    Considering how poorly itemized that 496 is (if we're coming out of timeless isle) this is especially true. It's like these things don't get tested and in the rush to get new content out they never stop and ask painfully obvious questions. Offer your players better catch up. Piss poor 496 gear apparently doesn't even cut it for lfr. It may as well be last expansions gear.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Considering how poorly itemized that 496 is (if we're coming out of timeless isle) this is especially true. It's like these things don't get tested and in the rush to get new content out they never stop and ask painfully obvious questions. Offer your players better catch up. Piss poor 496 gear apparently doesn't even cut it for lfr. It may as well be last expansions gear.
    Especially when the weapons these new players are likely to have aren't even ilvl 496. ilvl 476 if they can get a TI weapon, or ilvl 450 (or possibly even worse) otherwise.

    The ilvl calculation needs to more heavily weight the weapon slot(s).
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Especially when the weapons these new players are likely to have aren't even ilvl 496. ilvl 476 if they can get a TI weapon, or ilvl 450 (or possibly even worse) otherwise.

    The ilvl calculation needs to more heavily weight the weapon slot(s).
    Or they need to provide an alternative to acquiring a better weapon. If they're going to put so much emphasis on weapons then they really ought to make at least a starter one available somehow.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  4. #244
    yeah since 5.4 I have downed 1 boss on LFR (Immerseus), even in the ToT LFR when getting secrets of the empire, couldnt do any of ToT either

    No idea what happend, but I for sure don't mind if they remove it

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Especially when the weapons these new players are likely to have aren't even ilvl 496. ilvl 476 if they can get a TI weapon, or ilvl 450 (or possibly even worse) otherwise.

    The ilvl calculation needs to more heavily weight the weapon slot(s).
    i would tend to agree, although some classes are more weapon dependent than others, and preferential iLvl weighting it may punish classes that aren't weapon dependent and not weigh weapons strongly enough for classes that are highly weapon dependent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    since SoO part 1 is pretty easy, it would be nice if more weapons dropped in that wing.
    .


    When someone asks you if you're a god, YOU SAY 'YES'!

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Or they need to provide an alternative to acquiring a better weapon. If they're going to put so much emphasis on weapons then they really ought to make at least a starter one available somehow.
    Do the 502 crafted ones count? or 516 one from first heroic scenario quest

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Do the 502 crafted ones count? or 516 one from first heroic scenario quest
    Yea those would be ideal but it's an issue of why isn't it on the bloody island? I mean if they want you to go there for catch up doesn't it make sense to offer those items there? Doesn't seem terrible streamlined in fact is quite opaque.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea those would be ideal but it's an issue of why isn't it on the bloody island? I mean if they want you to go there for catch up doesn't it make sense to offer those items there? Doesn't seem terrible streamlined in fact is quite opaque.
    Idk I am unaware of the ideal path Blizzard intends players to take once 90. Latest 90 I made was ~ 5.2 and I did all the LFRs for legendary items and started gearing w/ heroics.

    Maybe people should run a quick tot or something first as well as some scenarios, vp cap etc.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Do the 502 crafted ones count? or 516 one from first heroic scenario quest
    The time and cost associated with crafting the 502 ilvl weapons and poor drop rates for 516 ilvl from scenarios means that neither are a practical solution for many to the lack of weapons outside of raids.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by analmoose View Post
    That's not purely bad luck. I have tried to run lfr on 6 chars over the last 2 weeks. ny role i choose, tank damage healing, all have a result equal to the OP's. Unless i finish one of those shitty runs i get sucked in to, theres has been 0 chance of me getting a fresh one for the first bosses, regardless of how many times i drop group reque, etc
    TBH my experience with LFR has always been good so far in SoO =S This is because i queue with openraid people good advice to do so!

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by fappasaurus View Post
    Maybe people should run a quick tot or something first as well as some scenarios, vp cap etc.
    I was gearing up a horde paladin on another server, and ended up just going for the ilvl 498 PvP healing mace. Grinding out the honor doesn't take that long, especially w. 700 honor/day (+ guild bonus) from daily PvP quests. Granted, I mostly want to do PvP with that character.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2013-09-30 at 08:52 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzik View Post
    Please do both SoO LFRs and come back to me on how your experience was.
    Done that on three different characters. Now go ahead and take another look at my first post on this thread, and then look at it again. Don't stop looking at till you have read it ten times. Maybe it will finally sink in.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Anko View Post
    yeah since 5.4 I have downed 1 boss on LFR (Immerseus), even in the ToT LFR when getting secrets of the empire, couldnt do any of ToT either
    I haven't seen huge problems in ToT LFR since 5.4. Some decline, perhaps, but it's outgeared enough now (especially by people grinding for the legendary quest cookies.)
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  14. #254
    I have read through multiple pages of this thread, and I wanted to offer my opinion.

    First off, I would like LFR to stop being referred to as a ‘loot-fest’. The loot is 528 ilvl for this patch, which is hardly gamebreaking. In fact, LFR loot has never been gamebreaking during this expansion, IMO. It has always been just enough to give a competent player enough gear to be successful in normals, if that was their intentions. For this patch, the LFR loot isn’t even optimal for that purpose, as Flex gear is better and will probably be a minimum for Raid Leaders looking to recruit toward normal progression. As such, I don’t even think the loot should be part of the discussion as to what matters, this time around.

    I am now a casual player. I used to be very hardcore, and I still consider myself an above average player in terms of skill and proficiency. Since I don’t raid normals/HC anymore, I loved LFR. I admit, I did it for the gear, but I also had fun. I am ‘that guy’ who will take charge of a dying LFR and make it successful. Last week I ended up leading 5 different LFR’s through completion (all of them were part 1), and received a plethora of gratitude. We had a few wipes, yes, but it was enjoyable helping willing players learn and achieve a small amount of greatness.

    Then I queued for part 2…

    This was not your ‘first week’ LFR experience. I had one experience in there where I did take charge upon joining one on the 1st boss with 3 stacks already. Unlike the part 1 LFR’s, I couldn't simply explain and lead through an attempt or 2 and see the group ‘get it’ and kill the boss. Sure, we downed Galakras, but that was with 6 stacks…

    Juggernaut wasn't too awful, so I believe that fight is tuned about right, as it only took 2 wipes before we nailed it.

    Shamans absolutely destroyed us. It didn't matter how much in depth I went into, or how many /RWs I typed in raid chat, it was just an absolute mess. I would see it if it was a group that didn't care or wasn't trying, but it wasn't. Regardless of what many say, a lot of LFR casuals still care about what they’re doing and being successful. These players were trying, and I could see it. I was supportive as I led, and they were grateful, as it kept the nay-sayers down a bit and removed a lot of the normal negativity we see in LFR chat. It didn't matter though, we still wiped 6 times…

    General is where I about lost it. After 3 wipes, everyone was doing everything right. People weren't dying to adds or randomness, no one was dpsing during Defensive Stance, Shamans were dying first, etc. No matter how well they performed though, we couldn't beat the enrage timer. I looked at some of the gear, and many were loaded with Timeless Isle 496 gear. If Blizzard is going to open an LFR with an ilvl of 500, then they need to make the damage requirements on a boss like General reflect that. We never did kill him. We wiped 6 times and too many left and everyone who joined took off running with their tails between their legs after seeing how many stacks we had. I had to leave as well, because after 4 hours in ONE LFR, my wife was about to hang me.

    TL;DR: So, to me…a person who does a lot of LFR just because I enjoy them…it’s heartbreaking to see LFR now. As many have stated…4-5 hours for a single wing is NOT LFR. If the gear mattered more for the current tier, then yeah, make them work harder for it. In this patch, the LFR Gear is even less meaningful with all of the other options, so why do people have to work harder for it than ever before? I go into LFR to have a quick in and out with some fun and maybe an item…but a 528 tier piece is not enough to make sitting in an LFR for 4-5 hours worth it. They need to dumb it down a little and let Flex be where the semi-elite hang out with vent/mumble and such with the higher difficulty. I don’t need 0 wipes, but LFR part 1 was about right in terms of difficulty and learning curve. They need the remaining wings to be similar in those aspects.
    Last edited by xavierjn; 2013-09-30 at 08:03 PM.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Yea those would be ideal but it's an issue of why isn't it on the bloody island? I mean if they want you to go there for catch up doesn't it make sense to offer those items there? Doesn't seem terrible streamlined in fact is quite opaque.
    Isnt really that hard, if you are smart you can do the chest scenario and get 10+ coins, then queue to toes and use all of them there to get a weapon, while you can do the same in ToT is just painful, the queue are very long and the boss that drop weapon are mostly the most annoying or the last one, 2h str weapons: council, lei shen, 1h str weapon, jinhrok, tortos, iron q, bows, tortos, durumu, iron q, caster weapon, a lot of them.

  16. #256
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Isnt really that hard, if you are smart you can do the chest scenario and get 10+ coins, then queue to toes and use all of them there to get a weapon, while you can do the same in ToT is just painful, the queue are very long and the boss that drop weapon are mostly the most annoying or the last one, 2h str weapons: council, lei shen, 1h str weapon, jinhrok, tortos, iron q, bows, tortos, durumu, iron q, caster weapon, a lot of them.
    Toes weapon isn't even 496 Are people still actually even queing for that?
    Last edited by Glorious Leader; 2013-09-30 at 08:10 PM.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  17. #257
    Amazed how many people have posted that it's no worse now than it ever was and even worse the ones who say don't do it if you can't handle it.
    Like others have said I have run lfr as much or more than most players and right now it is a mess.
    Usually first week I get at least 11 of my 90s through a new lfr wing, there are not enough hours in the week for me to get even half that through it as it stands now.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by xavierjn View Post
    I have read through multiple pages of this thread, and I wanted to offer my opinion.

    First off, I would like LFR to stop being referred to as a ‘loot-fest’. The loot is 528 ilvl for this patch, which is hardly gamebreaking. In fact, LFR loot has never been gamebreaking during this expansion, IMO. It has always been just enough to give a competent player enough gear to be successful in normals, if that was their intentions. For this patch, the LFR loot isn’t even optimal for that purpose, as Flex gear is better and will probably be a minimum for Raid Leaders looking to recruit toward normal progression. As such, I don’t even think the loot should be part of the discussion as to what matters, this time around.

    I am now a casual player. I used to be very hardcore, and I still consider myself an above average player in terms of skill and proficiency. Since I don’t raid normals/HC anymore, I loved LFR. I admit, I did it for the gear, but I also had fun. I am ‘that guy’ who will take charge of a dying LFR and make it successful. Last week I ended up leading 5 different LFR’s through completion (all of them were part 1), and received a plethora of gratitude. We had a few wipes, yes, but it was enjoyable helping willing players learn and achieve a small amount of greatness.

    Then I queued for part 2…

    This was not your ‘first week’ LFR experience. I had one experience in there where I did take charge upon joining one on the 1st boss with 3 stacks already. Unlike the part 1 LFR’s, I couldn't simply explain and lead through an attempt or 2 and see the group ‘get it’ and kill the boss. Sure, we downed Galakras, but that was with 6 stacks…

    Juggernaut wasn't too awful, so I believe that fight is tuned about right, as it only took 2 wipes before we nailed it.

    Shamans absolutely destroyed us. It didn't matter how much in depth I went into, or how many /RWs I typed in raid chat, it was just an absolute mess. I would see it if it was a group that didn't care or wasn't trying, but it wasn't. Regardless of what many say, a lot of LFR casuals still care about what they’re doing and being successful. These players were trying, and I could see it. I was supportive as I led, and they were grateful, as it kept the nay-sayers down a bit and removed a lot of the normal negativity we see in LFR chat. It didn't matter though, we still wiped 6 times…

    General is where I about lost it. After 3 wipes, everyone was doing everything right. People weren't dying to adds or randomness, no one was dpsing during Defensive Stance, Shamans were dying first, etc. No matter how well they performed though, we couldn't beat the enrage timer. I looked at some of the gear, and many were loaded with Timeless Isle 496 gear. If Blizzard is going to open an LFR with an ilvl of 500, then they need to make the damage requirements on a boss like General reflect that. We never did kill him. We wiped 6 times and too many left and everyone who joined took off running with their tails between their legs after seeing how many stacks we had. I had to leave as well, because after 4 hours in ONE LFR, my wife was about to hang me.

    TL;DR: So, to me…a person who does a lot of LFR just because I enjoy them…it’s heartbreaking to see LFR now. As many have stated…4-5 hours for a single wing is NOT LFR. If the gear mattered more for the current tier, then yeah, make them work harder for it. In this patch, the LFR Gear is even less meaningful with all of the other options, so why do people have to work harder for it than ever before? I go into LFR to have a quick in and out with some fun and maybe an item…but a 528 tier piece is not enough to make sitting in an LFR for 4-5 hours worth it. They need to dumb it down a little and let Flex be where the semi-elite hang out with vent/mumble and such with the higher difficulty. I don’t need 0 wipes, but LFR part 1 was about right in terms of difficulty and learning curve. They need the remaining wings to be similar in those aspects.
    This is exactly what I am seeing as well. I did not make this thread to intentionally "Flame LFR" and to "get it removed" that people are suggesting in this thread, but if what you say in this post continues, then something needs to be done/fixed.

    5 Hours for one wing? How are casuals going to keep subbing if this continues?

    how is this good for the game?
    Last edited by Kezzik; 2013-09-30 at 08:12 PM.

  19. #259
    think i wiped once on Dark Shamans and once on Nazgrim, they are not hard people just need to open their eyes and think for a few min.
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  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Toes weapon isn't even 496
    They are 483 right? a lot better than a blue from hc, hell, yesterday i wanted to do the first part with one of my alt, joined on immersus with 4 stack, and i saw a hunter with a green bow and the dk tank was using this http://www.wowhead.com/item=89685.

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