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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzik View Post
    First of all, let me get to this point first.

    1.) Has anyone else seen an INCREASE in chance of joining an lfr ALREADY IN PROGRESS? I don't WANT THAT. I want a FRESH RUN.

    My main point.

    2.) I am sitting in an LFR, an LFR that was already in progress btw, and we get to the trash for the Korkron Shaman boss. Two of the tanks leave. I am now waiting with 20+ other people for new tanks. 10 Mins pass - nothing.

    20 mins pass - nothing.

    People start to leave.

    I am now sitting in an LFR with 3 people, still in queue, 30 min later.

    If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game. It's a waste of resources.

    You must have never actually raided with a Pug group before.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade Wolf View Post
    think i wiped once on Dark Shamans and once on Nazgrim, they are not hard people just need to open their eyes and think for a few min.
    Yeah, I have had one experience like that. That can happen, but only with some geared pros in the group, or many undergeared pros. The problem is, LFR should NOT be tuned as though every group is going to have some pros with high gear. The pros are not going to be doing LFR for very long, I don't believe, as Flex is much more rewarding and enjoyable right now, and LFR is only until they get the tier piece or trinket that has eluded them in normals/HCs.

  3. #263
    High Overlord M00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Isnt really that hard, if you are smart you can do the chest scenario and get 10+ coins, then queue to toes and use all of them there to get a weapon, while you can do the same in ToT is just painful, the queue are very long and the boss that drop weapon are mostly the most annoying or the last one, 2h str weapons: council, lei shen, 1h str weapon, jinhrok, tortos, iron q, bows, tortos, durumu, iron q, caster weapon, a lot of them.
    You are absolutely correct that there are many ways out there to get weapons. But if you can get into SoO LFR with a 450 weapon, why would you bother? Just queue up and get carried.

    For example, I had ridiculous amounts of 496 armour tokens from my main. So I decided to gear up my DK who I dinged 90 at the start of mop and just left at 440 ilvl. I used all the tokens I had for him and got the free burden from the chest to upgrade one of them. I then bought the jp trinket from dominance offensive. I collected some valour from chaining h scenarios to buy the 522 vp neck. I got free 516 shoulders from the first h scenario quest and lastly got the 450 sword from the scenario quest. All this took me around 2 hours to do and I went from 440-498 ilvl. At this point I could have spent hours completing the ToT LFRs for a weapon better than 450, but why would I when I can go straight into SoO right now?

    I'm not saying this is a good way to think or very good for LFR in general but I'm guessing a lot of people are thinking this way with their alts.

    My dps was terrible and I was playing a class that I've played for about 2 hours in the last year but blizz thinks it is ok for me to queue up for SoO.
    Last edited by M00; 2013-09-30 at 08:31 PM.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by M00 View Post
    You are absolutely correct that there are many ways out there to get weapons. But if you can get into SoO LFR with a 450 weapon, why would you bother? Just queue up and get carried.

    For example, I had ridiculous amounts of 496 armour tokens from my main. So I decided to gear up my DK who I dinged 90 at the start of mop and just left at 440 ilvl. I used all the tokens I had for him and got the free burden from the chest to upgrade one of them. I then bought the jp trinket from dominance offensive. I collected some valour from chaining h scenarios to buy the 522 vp neck. I got free 516 shoulders from the first h scenario quest and lastly got the 450 sword from the scenario quest. All this took me around 2 hours to do and I went from 440-498 ilvl. At this point I could have spent hours completing the ToT LFRs for a weapon better than 450, but why would I when I can go straight into SoO right now?

    I'm not saying this is a good way to think or very good for LFR in general but I'm guessing a lot of people are thinking this way with their alts.
    I completely agree with this, and I can honestly say that I can't blame them. If the average person can get into SoO and start the repeated grinding for a weapon, while meanwhile obtaining excellent gear, why wouldn't they? Why would the average person decide instead to spend a ton of time trying to get a slightly better weapon in previous LFR's when SoO is just much much more attractive.

    I do not think that way. I have 2 alts that I refuse to run SoO part 2 with right now, even though I meet the ilvl requirement. I know that the dps I am capable of on those chars, even with the required ilvl, is not enough to meet the requirements to kill some of those bosses, regardless of what Blizzard says.

    Even then, though, I don't blame others at all for thinking differently. It's completely understandable.

  5. #265
    Over 9000! Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M00 View Post
    You are absolutely correct that there are many ways out there to get weapons. But if you can get into SoO LFR with a 450 weapon, why would you bother?
    Theirs more ways to get shitty weapons. If the point is that 496 probably isn't enough ilvl especially when the weighting of the weapon is not fully taken into account then then offering players shitty weapons doesn't help.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  6. #266
    Pit Lord velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agzarah View Post
    blizz need to find a way to encourage people to stay on and kill the bosses they've already done, and the 45 valor certainly isnt enough. Perhaps having bosses youve already looted always drop a fail bag so there is atleast something to get from killing it again.
    So 45 Vp is not good enough but a 'failbag' with 40g would with a potion or flask? I'd take VP over gold anyday of the week, even if I did not have anything to spend it on immediately...

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by velde046 View Post
    So 45 Vp is not good enough but a 'failbag' with 40g would with a potion or flask? I'd take VP over gold anyday of the week, even if I did not have anything to spend it on immediately...
    Im desparate for more gold my shamans draining me of cash XD gief gold bag!

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    The only reason LFR "worked" is because there were a lot of decent players who felt forced to play it for a variety of reasons, and they carried all the baddies.

    Now with a huge chunk of those players no longer feel forced to play it, and as such LFR has lost a ton of the players who were carrying the dead weight and now it's just the dead weight.

    This is just how it has to be though, it's bad design to force people to do something they don't like because others can't cut it.

    They can and will just nerf LFR even more until it's basically impossible to fail at.
    I love when people make broad statements regarding the playstyle and habits of literally millions of players as if they've got market research data they've been studying. Who are you to make ANY of these statements? Even if they're true for you and literally EVERY player you know, congratulations, that's less than a quarter of a percent of players. I'm sorry you feel that way about LFR, but that doesn't make any random crap you spew about who uses it and why they use it any less fictional.

  9. #269
    If LFR success rates drop as a result of most players choosing to do Flex then the difficulty will be brought down.


    If that doesn't happen it's because Blizzard doesn't want you in LFR, they want you in Flex.


    Stop crying and do Flex seems to be the best decision as of this moment.

  10. #270
    Personal anecdotes from running different toons. Yadda yadda grain of salt blahblah no meaningful conclusions:

    Tuesday, the second wing was not bad as there were still heavy amounts of higher-end raiders there to lead the way. Still plenty of wipes but more control. Lots of 3-5 stack fights.

    Wednesday, the world went to hell - fewer quality raiders meant a dramatic escalation in wipe rates and general fail attitudes. I quit out of frustration. Poked tentatively through Thursday and Friday and could not handle the rampant stupidity. Every bad player was sporting a "honey badger don't give a ####" attitude whenever corrections were suggested to deal with encounter mechanics (politely suggested, mind you). 8-10 stacks of determination were common.

    By Monday, most of the terribads seem to have either rotated through or heard that LFR was now too hard for them, because quality started to swing back up noticably. Back down to one-shots and occasional 2-3 stacks.

    I'm interested (and dreading) finding out how things are going to go today with the new reset.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by HeedmySpeed View Post
    If LFR success rates drop as a result of most players choosing to do Flex then the difficulty will be brought down.


    If that doesn't happen it's because Blizzard doesn't want you in LFR, they want you in Flex.


    Stop crying and do Flex seems to be the best decision as of this moment.
    I believe it is more likely people will drop out of the whole raid system rather than steeping up to the more difficult Flex raids.

  12. #272
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I believe it is more likely people will drop out of the whole raid system rather than steeping up to the more difficult Flex raids.
    i don't think ultimately that Flex and LFR will necessarily compete for players to each other's mutual detriment,

    rather there will be four groups of raider: primarily LFR raider, Primarily Flex raider, Primarily Normal raider and Primarily raiders. with players of all groups occasionally bleeding into their adjacent groups. i think all four niches can co-exist.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    i don't think ultimately that Flex and LFR will necessarily compete for players to each other's mutual detriment,

    rather there will be four groups of raider: primarily LFR raider, Primarily Flex raider, Primarily Normal raider and Primarily raiders. with players of all groups occasionally bleeding into their adjacent groups. i think all four niches can co-exist.
    Personally I think there will be a greater cross over into Flex from normal raiders than LFR players.

  14. #274
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    Well 1 is sure Nazgrim and shamans needs nerf
    For nazgrim that only can be rage cap because the only reason to wipe on this encounter is because your room get filled with wirl axes that its a fact, remove this ability and boss will be fine
    Shamans the most deadly thing for me was bloobs i dint die by the wall i dint die by tornadoes but for 3 tryes almost all your melee dies because of the insane damage of these
    I even dint want to think how aful will be LFR when they open next wings and raid meet with spoils klaxxi malkrok and garrosh
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2013-10-01 at 03:34 PM.

  15. #275
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Personally I think there will be a greater cross over into Flex from normal raiders than LFR players.
    i could see this happening,
    Normal in general attracts a lower-pressure type player (at least compared to what heroic attracts); the sort of player who might enjoy the flexibility of group size and scheduling afforded by Flex.

  16. #276
    LFR is as is now not because of Flex.

    Main problem is one-shot mechanics + tight enrage. One could think that Blizzard would learn from past mistakes of putting such things into full pug environment like LFR. But no - there is abuse of tight (for LFR) enrage timers with tons of 1-shot mechanics. In the past it was only Elegon and Durumu. In SoO it is everywhere.

    Though I must admit that people in LFR became worse in general, main problems lies in what I wrote above.

    And Blizzard must do something extremely fast, right this day/week or something, as it has gigantic domino-effect. Queues become longer each passing day as people just leave in frustration and don't want to spend 5 hours in one LFR after hour+ queue. The longer Blizzard waits with it, the more harm will be done.

  17. #277
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Well 1 is sure Nazgrim and shamans needs nerf
    For nazgrim that only can be rage cap because the only reason to wipe on this encounter is because your room get filled with wirl axes that its a fact, remove this ability and boss will be fine
    Shamans the most deadly thing for me was bloobs i dint die by the wall i dint die by tornadoes but for 3 tryes almost all your melee dies because of the insane damage of these
    I even dint want to think how aful will be LFR when they open next wings and raid meet with spoils klaxxi malkrok and garrosh
    i am trying imagine what mental accent i should use to read your idiosyncratic spelling, , , and i can't place it.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    And Blizzard must do something extremely fast, right this day/week or something, as it has gigantic domino-effect. Queues become longer each passing day as people just leave in frustration and don't want to spend 5 hours in one LFR after hour+ queue. The longer Blizzard waits with it, the more harm will be done.
    Perhaps this is just an experiment to see how many people will move up to Flex, if pushed.

    Me? I just downloaded oQueue.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  19. #279
    I have yet to see the first boss in SoO. Always put in on 2nd boss wipe fests. Which turn into waiting for new people to come in after 1 wipe. SO pull, wipe 3 people drop wait 10 min to replace, in that 10 min 3 more people drop. 90 min later I give up and log out, I have yet to finish the first wing. I am going to try in earnest today but I do not have much hope. I have canceled my sub over this, LFR is all I get to do for raiding and I cannot even do that because of how it is going now.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  20. #280
    The Lightbringer Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzik View Post
    If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game. It's a waste of resources.
    Getting right on that, your highness.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.

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