If this is how LFR is going to be from now on, I don't see the reason in keeping it.

[Deleted]

It's a means to an end, not every group will be a success, especially in the first 3 weeks. Try joining some of the pugs for flex I've had the misfortune of joining. People seem to think they should steamroll everything, instantly. Everyone knows LFR isn't going to work well all the time, Not every pug or even guild group always succeeds on bosses in flex, normal or whatever. Stop complaining - you can always re-queue, you don't have to lead the groups, find replacements or anything other than click a few buttons.

[MoanaLisa]

Yes, because someone suggesting something for the game is always butthurt. Makes sense.

There are always some clues:

If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game.

So in this case it seems so, yes.

[Amsden]

Flex pugs are terrible right now. I was doing it on my alt and people are just expecting it to be LFR, LFR has spoiled a lot of people they now need to relearn how to raid for flex, or they will just start going back to LFR.

[lostdrewid]

Translation: "I had a bad time in a LFR group and had to wait for a long time, remove it now."
Did I get this right?

You nailed it in one.

Christ, people bitch and moan every single time a new LFR tier comes out. Fun fact: EVERY tier at EVERY difficulty requires time to learn the fights. LFR takes longer than some -- depending on your groups for other difficulties -- because you don't run with the same regular crowd and there's *always* people who simply never learn. This is not new. Repeat after me: this is not new. It was true for Dragon Soul, for Mogu'shan Vaults, for Hall of Fear, for the Terrace of Eternal Fear, for the Throne of Thunder, and for Siege of Orgrimmar. Next expansion, it'll still be true. If you don't like it, don't start a new tier of LFR until people learn. Give it a month. Maybe two. ToT LFR is laughable now, wipes are pretty few and far between. They still happen; we had *two* impressively bad tanks on Lei Shen last night, who didn't know to move him from quadrant to quadrant. But they're nothing like the wipefests in the days after 5.2 released.

Get used to it and stop complaining, or stop playing. You don't have a choice in this, because it's not going to change. It's not even broken! Since you're too impatient to see people learn fights or to get new groups, it's not the system that's broken: you are.

[wych]

Yes, because someone suggesting something for the game is always butthurt. Makes sense.

A thread based on anecdotal evidence with incredibly over the top hyperbole.

Yeah it appears to be butthurt

[Normie]

I usually skip the first week of a new wing in LFR but I've been doing them as they open. The first one wasn't bad. The second is pretty tedious. Even when it does start going smoothly there's a lot of annoying trash et cetera (the way the demos get pulled is probably going to have to change). Galakras and Juggernaut might be fine with no changes but Shaman and Nazgrim need some work from Blizzard.

[AVPaul]

Problem is not in LFR itself, problem is in overtuned difficultly level. Queue is so long just because there is another raid wiping on next boss and it has higher priority to get new players. then your and there is no "fail threshold", i.e. max number of players (healers and tanks most likely), that will be given to other raid, before starting to give them to your. As you're claiming to remove LFR, I may guess, that you're one of this elitists, that want LFR to burn in hell. You just trying to speculate on bad situation in LFR, produced mostly by Blizzard, not players. But the solution is simple - just to nerf LFR by approx 20-30%. And everything will be ok. Many players are already asking Blizzard to do it, just because there is no need in "harder LFR" now, cuz all those people, who wanted it to be harder, are doing flexes now. Blizzard are just too slow, as always. May be they want to lose another pair of millions of subs? Please remember, that they are in debt now and having troubles with their deal with Vivendy. May be you don't see it, cuz Blizzard trying to hide this fact from our eyes as hard as possible, but they are shrinking everything, connected with Wow development, that they can. Pushing players into half a day of wipes in this situation is suicide for them. Could somebody tell me the secret mean of pushing casuals into wiping till 10 stack for several hours, instead of just nerfing the LFR? Why should we waste our time for this crap? I just can't sustain sitting for so long in front of my computer. It is simply hazardous to health. And it's not taking into account, that I can offer so much time only on weekend - on my workdays I have 2,5 hours max to play the games. And I have to share this time with taking rest after work. That means, that if I will be tired, then I just wont have any desire to play the game, that makes me tired and depressed even more, then my work. I was playing Firefall for half a year and hasn't even a day, when I was tired or depressed in this game. And Wow made me tired after just a week of playing it. Heh. I don't really know, how Blizzard are planning to survive with such a problems.

[melodramocracy]

If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game. It's a waste of resources.

How about showing some self restraint and simply not queuing? Problem solved, with far less dev intervention.

[Rizendragon]

That's what happens when you give the people who carry the choice to opt out by implementing the flex difficulty. I don't think anybody saw this coming, myself included. I'm really really curious as to what the long term consequences of this unforeseen problem will be.

This is exactly the approach Blizzard is taking at the moment. I think they'll either nerf LFR further or redesign it. I almost wonder if they were banking on this to reinstate pugging etc. Flex is pretty forgiving, and if you have vent/mumble and 10 less than average players then you should be able to make progress from my experience.

[lopk]

Am I the only person who thinks that LFR is fine? I mean yeah, I've had a lot of failures in the second wing, but what you can expect? ;_;

[Rizendragon]

long synopsis on how Blizzard isn't acting fast enough and the company is dying *snip*

Blizzard always takes this approach. They try to build enough evidence to make an informed statistically accurate action before implementing an action. This usually takes anywhere from 1-3 months to do. If you add in the fact that an expansion is coming soon I wouldn't be surprised to simply see an announcement at Blizzcon of a system in the works to either repair or replace LFR. Patience is key.

If you aren't satisfied then unsub and let Blizzard know with your wallet. Then check back if you see something you like.

[Normie]

Am I the only person who thinks that LFR is fine? I mean yeah, I've had a lot of failures in the second wing, but what you can expect? ;_;

I think it's basically fine. There are some tuning problems on the last two bosses.

[PrairieChicken]

I love the new timeless loots, and thanks to it I never have to to lfr.

So just overgear it and you never have to do it again

[Rizendragon]

Am I the only person who thinks that LFR is fine? I mean yeah, I've had a lot of failures in the second wing, but what you can expect? ;_;

I too think it's ok, but I have noticed the amount of people in LFR to carry has reduced dramatically. It may just be that this tier offers a ton of raiding (LFR, Flex, Normal, Heroic) and the usual carriers aren't on their alts as much or they may not see LFR as a good way to gear up (I'm starting to lean this way my myself, and recently I've noticed that I've become one of the carriers of groups >.<). It will be interesting to see how Flex impacts LFR in the coming months.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

Problem is not in LFR itself, problem is in overtuned difficultly level.

LFR Overtuned? So what you want it like you walk into the bosses room and Lorewalker Cho is Standing there. He tells you a story of a great battle that took place, and while he is telling it you see the fight behind him like the Lorewalker turn ins, then you get loot?

[Deleted]

I think it's basically fine. There are some tuning problems on the last two bosses.

What two last bosses? Shammies and Naz?

With Shammies people just need to _not_ stand in crap and Naz just dps/interrupt the adds and not stand in blades or am I missing something amazing here?

[Normie]

What two last bosses? Shammies and Naz?

With Shammies people just need to _not_ stand in crap and Naz just dps/interrupt the adds and not stand in blades or am I missing something amazing here?

Yes I know what people "need" to do.

What is important with the encounter is what people are doing.

Blizzard can't change how players play. Blizzard can change how encounters work. So which one is basically pointless to talk about?

[Belloc]

First of all, let me get to this point first.

1.) Has anyone else seen an INCREASE in chance of joining an lfr ALREADY IN PROGRESS? I don't WANT THAT. I want a FRESH RUN.

My main point.

2.) I am sitting in an LFR, an LFR that was already in progress btw, and we get to the trash for the Korkron Shaman boss. Two of the tanks leave. I am now waiting with 20+ other people for new tanks. 10 Mins pass - nothing.

20 mins pass - nothing.

People start to leave.

I am now sitting in an LFR with 3 people, still in queue, 30 min later.

If this is how LFR is after Flex is introduced, I want it removed from the game. It's a waste of resources.

How about you wait a few weeks until people start learning the fights? You know, not every wing of ToT LFR was easy-mode the first week.

[Halicia]

Flex pugs are terrible right now.

Ermm... no.

I've led a 25man flex pug every tuesday since the week after it came out. (first week we just brought our first-stringers to test the waters).

This last week, We spent less time clearing the whole flexraid, then I did to kill TWO bosses in LFR (as a healer queue no less).

I can kinda abide with LFR being 'too easy' or 'too hard', but when its billed as a 'way to raid for those that dont have the time for raiding' it needs to deliver on faster queues and lower downtime.

'Random LFR' is *long* overdue.

and for all the people claiming 'start of patch' is at fault... trying going into say... *any* of the earlier LFRs. ToT hasn't gotten any better.

[Ealyssa]

1.) Has anyone else seen an INCREASE in chance of joining an lfr ALREADY IN PROGRESS?

New tier
People not knowing what to do
lot of wipes
people living
more "in progress" raid to fill

Like just every other tier before this one, nothing new. Don't like it, don't play it.