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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    But the burdens are a lot harder to get than LFR items no?
    No.

    Both are RNG, LFR is one chance a week per boss to get loot, you have a chance at getting a Burden every time you participate in killing a rarespawn on the isle, you have a chance to get a Burden every time you open a loot cache chest (the gambling "minigame" with the Hozen in the cave), and you can guarantee a Burden every 50k Timeless Coins, plus you get 1 guaranteed burden from a zone chest.

    Assuming efficient Timeless Coin farm, it would not be hard to farm 50k coins for one Burden per day- Ghost Ship and Evermaw spawn every hour and reward nearly 1k coins each, so that's 2k coins per hour from them alone. Filling in the time between Ship+Maw spawns by killing the Ordos yaungol that spawn from repeatedly using Scroll of Challenge, especially in a 5-man group, was netting my guildies and I about 3k coins per hour at our kill rate.

    So, that's one guaranteed Burden in approximately 10 hours, with a chance to get a Burden every time you kill Ship or Evermaw. Burdens can drop from the yaungol as well. So, assuming you do this each day, you can get 7 Burdens a week, minimum, fairly easily.

    LFR, on the other hand, is about a 3-6 hour investment once per week at current clear times and does not guarantee a loot drop or upgrade.
    Sure, it takes less time, but it's probably for less reward and certainly for less reliable reward.

    I spend a few hours a day on the Timeless Isle, and I've gotten in excess of 10-15 Burdens on a single character since 5.4 launched. I've done LFR every week on that same character, and I've gotten 2 pieces of loot so far.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Ugum View Post
    Then, me and a friend decided to bang our heads against the wall (my monk and his paladin, both DPS) in the SoO LFR's. Immerseus 1 shot, Protectors 1 shot, Norushen was a 3 shot as we had to explain to people that killing the adds was a good thing to do, Sha was 1 shot. Then we went into the 2nd wing. Galakras was 3 attempts as the first 2 were Tank issues (one of them not going up in the tower and the second going in the Tower before the Demo was destroyed). We kicked that Tank and the next attempt he died. Juggernaut was 1 shot, Shaman were 2 shot, Nazgrim was 2 shot. It was a pretty good run overall. Much different than the previous week.
    I'm pretty sure that the SoO LFR bosses. We were failing big time on Nazgrim but his axes never came out this week. The first week I tried it we were correctly handling 3/4 of his rage mechanics and the axes were still out from 15 seconds on.

  3. #403
    Keyboard Turner
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    Get used to it because Blizzard mostly only listen to the noobs because they are the majority.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Mooboy View Post
    Which is all well and good, but how?

    How do you know if someone is gemmed badly? and more to the point, do they know they're gemmed badly?
    Gemmed badly: no gem at all in a socket, gem for a useless stat, gem from a previous expansion. That wasn't hard, was it?

    Granted, this doesn't identify ALL ways gemming can be suboptimal. But perfect is the enemy of good enough. Blizzard could improve things greatly with systems that aren't 100% solutions.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Woop Woop View Post
    ----when LFR is challenging people complain that they are wiping too much
    ----when LFR is too easy it's "free" loot and should be removed

    ...what?
    The issue with the current state of lfr is people's expectations are that from 5.3, where queues where 30min or under and the entire wing would take 1 - 1.5 hours to complete. Now queue times are extremely long (an hour wait is fairly common for me as dps) and you can spend and hour or more on one boss. My guild cleared 3 bosses in normal in the time my lfr group downed one boss. People rage leave after a wipe in lfr and the requeue mini game gets played over and over.

    If blizz had made 5.2 & 5.3 more alt friendly lfr would be in a better position than it is now, people would know how to play their alts and there wouldnt be the welfare loot from Timeless Isle fooling people into thinking they are ready for lfr. People are messing up, afking, under performing and just plain being obstacles to those who really only have lfr as a viable "raiding" experience.

    Blizzard needs to offer those players persistant enough to remain in lfr an increase in loot drop chance, similar to stacks of determination you get stacks of lucky loot.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Blizzard both bumped down LFR ilvl considerably and tuned LFR harshly. Coincidentally they also introduced Flex at the same time.

    It doesn't take a genius.
    Ding. Ding. We have a winner! Between being the first month of new wings, as well as the above mentioned, LFR is worse than usual now.

    This one time at Brand Camp, I got Singed.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Krommm View Post
    Ding. Ding. We have a winner! Between being the first month of new wings, as well as the above mentioned, LFR is worse than usual now.
    A lot of good LFR players are waiting for the swarm of 'short timers' (people who only show up long enough to gear up and down the last boss of the tier in LFR) to leave. Good players will still plunge LFR for a trinket, weapon or 4 piece set token, anyone who says differently is eother already in normal raid gear or is just as bad a player as the people they like to call bad players.

  8. #408
    Scarab Lord Nivis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FobManX View Post
    Just get rid of it. Flex is enough since it's meant for people who can't commit to scheduled raids.
    No. If anything, they can replace normal with Flex. LFR caters to a totally different audience.
    Flex caters to the same people as Normal - it's just more foolproof.

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it should be removed.
    Last edited by Nivis; 2013-10-02 at 04:29 PM.

  9. #409
    I totally agree with this ......

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    There are any number of things that Blizzard could do to improve the situation. For example, it could fix the ilvl computation to exclude gear not for the spec (or class armor type). LFR could require gear to be gemmed and enchanted. LFR could require all glyph slots be filled, and check the glyphs are not ridiculous for the given role. Finally, LFR could have automated mechanisms for identifying and calling out griefing, ninja pulls, and terrible underperformance.
    and yet, this will never stop the hodor swarms from button mashing their way to failure

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivis View Post
    No. If anything, they can replace normal with Flex. LFR caters to a totally different audience.
    Flex caters to the same people as Normal - it's just more foolproof. But, compared to normal its still as much of a joke as LFR in difficulty

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it should be removed.
    Um no, flex caters to the casual players who don't have the time or investment into being in a decent raid guild with structure. It's great for guilds that end up with to many dps or not enough for their 25m runs.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Invection View Post
    and yet, this will never stop the hodor swarms from button mashing their way to failure
    You asked what Blizzard could do. Now you're raising the bar on what you consider acceptable actions.

    The simple fact is there are plenty of things Blizzard could do to reduce the dysfunction in LFR. They can't totally solve the problem, but so what? There are plenty of RL problems that can't be totally solved that we don't throw our hands up over and do nothing.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    How does a healer queueing up in DPS gear make the queue faster? I understand how dps queueing up as a healer and then not healing quickens up the queue at the expense of everyone else but healers in dps gear?
    i meant someone with no healing gear signs up as a healer for the quicker queues.
    Too cool for a signature

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Revrev View Post
    I like how more and more people starting to disslike lfr it's good because its rly ruins the special thing with raiding.
    It 'rly' ruins the special thing with raiding? Then do not do it. Raiding normal & HC with guilds has not changed. You do not like LFR, do not do it. I do it with some of the people in my guild (we are not a raiding guild, cannot stand the drama queens) and we would not raid at all without it. So, if you raid 'properly and do not do LFR, it is not affecting you, so leave it alone. If you do LFR, you are just like the majority so get off your high (rocking) horse and join us rather than judging us.

  14. #414
    Scarab Lord Nivis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invection View Post
    Um no, flex caters to the casual players who don't have the time or investment into being in a decent raid guild with structure. It's great for guilds that end up with to many dps or not enough for their 25m runs.
    And LFR also caters to people who don't want to have to deal with organized groups. Flex definitely is closer to Normal than to LFR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revrev View Post
    I like how more and more people starting to disslike lfr it's good because its rly ruins the special thing with raiding.
    Please remove everything below Heroic, it really ruins the special thing with raiding.

    Seriously, this whole "I don't like it, so others shouldn't like it, too"-metality is SO stupid.
    Last edited by Nivis; 2013-10-02 at 05:00 PM.

  15. #415
    i like better gather people for raid, not LFR. there are lot of TROLLS

  16. #416
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Im skipping everyone elses posts because mine sis the most important...I jest, but LFR is horrible any other time after thursday, its not just bad its unbearable with terrible queue times and constant drop outs, too many difficulties, LFR or flexi not both imo.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Daetur View Post
    No.

    Both are RNG, LFR is one chance a week per boss to get loot, you have a chance at getting a Burden every time you participate in killing a rarespawn on the isle, you have a chance to get a Burden every time you open a loot cache chest (the gambling "minigame" with the Hozen in the cave), and you can guarantee a Burden every 50k Timeless Coins, plus you get 1 guaranteed burden from a zone chest.

    Assuming efficient Timeless Coin farm, it would not be hard to farm 50k coins for one Burden per day- Ghost Ship and Evermaw spawn every hour and reward nearly 1k coins each, so that's 2k coins per hour from them alone. Filling in the time between Ship+Maw spawns by killing the Ordos yaungol that spawn from repeatedly using Scroll of Challenge, especially in a 5-man group, was netting my guildies and I about 3k coins per hour at our kill rate.

    So, that's one guaranteed Burden in approximately 10 hours, with a chance to get a Burden every time you kill Ship or Evermaw. Burdens can drop from the yaungol as well. So, assuming you do this each day, you can get 7 Burdens a week, minimum, fairly easily.

    LFR, on the other hand, is about a 3-6 hour investment once per week at current clear times and does not guarantee a loot drop or upgrade.
    Sure, it takes less time, but it's probably for less reward and certainly for less reliable reward.

    I spend a few hours a day on the Timeless Isle, and I've gotten in excess of 10-15 Burdens on a single character since 5.4 launched. I've done LFR every week on that same character, and I've gotten 2 pieces of loot so far.
    I would say it makes them about even then rather than burdens easier. The drop rates in the current LFR have been buffed. Sounds like your RNG is just bad. I've done 2 clears on my shaman of LFR and have upgraded 5-6 items. seems to me that both systems work fairly well and intended

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by saucywench View Post
    The issue with the current state of lfr is people's expectations are that from 5.3, where queues where 30min or under and the entire wing would take 1 - 1.5 hours to complete. Now queue times are extremely long (an hour wait is fairly common for me as dps) and you can spend and hour or more on one boss. My guild cleared 3 bosses in normal in the time my lfr group downed one boss. People rage leave after a wipe in lfr and the requeue mini game gets played over and over.

    If blizz had made 5.2 & 5.3 more alt friendly lfr would be in a better position than it is now, people would know how to play their alts and there wouldnt be the welfare loot from Timeless Isle fooling people into thinking they are ready for lfr. People are messing up, afking, under performing and just plain being obstacles to those who really only have lfr as a viable "raiding" experience.

    Blizzard needs to offer those players persistant enough to remain in lfr an increase in loot drop chance, similar to stacks of determination you get stacks of lucky loot.
    No it wouldn't, u cannot expect the kind of competence and consistency in a lfr like you can in a organized raid. This is random matchmaking, your gonna have absolutely terrible runs and your gonna have some good runs.

    There is no need to hand out even more loot, people already have personal loot rolls on everything plus bonus rolls.

    We clear 13/14 in 3 -3.5hours on normal, you cant even remotely expect that out of a lfr group. Lfr is what it is, a way for players to see content with little to no effort and get rewarded for it. (im not discrediting the few who actually try in lfrs as there only means of raiding, you guys are just a minority)

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilm View Post
    We clear 13/14 in 3 -3.5hours on normal, you cant even remotely expect that out of a lfr group. Lfr is what it is, a way for players to see content with little to no effort and get rewarded for it. (im not discrediting the few who actually try in lfrs as there only means of raiding, you guys are just a minority)
    I'm glad that you at least acknowledge that. I pulled 200k hps on one fight last night in LFR and have come nowhere near to that in Flex, mostly because there is no need. There is serious effort involved in a successful LFR, but it's not shared equally. Frankly, I'm OK with picking up the slack for some of the players who lack gear and skill. What really infuriates me, however, are those who AFK and/or don't bother to try because it's a waste of their precious time. If it's such a waste I'm sure they can find better things to do. Thankfully there are far fewer of those players than these forums would lead you to believe, and they get kicked pretty quickly.

  20. #420
    I am Murloc! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Im just glad flexi raids exist now, my guild runs through them all through the week with mains and alts, once I have caught up I doubt ill ever set foot in lfr again.

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