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  1. #1

    4th Specs - Done right could provide a lot of new gameplay experience.

    Yeah I know there are a lot of 4th specs related threads but as I see the majority of my posts ignored even if they consist of more than 2 lines of text... I'm just starting another one. What I will try to describe here, wasn't mentioned in other threads or - perhaps I missed it somehow.

    My goal is to add to the gameplay and to achieve that I came up with this idea.
    In every thread about 4th specs we read ideas about various specs that overall wouldn't really contribute to the gameplay.
    Why would we even want another melee str. dps spec for a death knight? or another spec with fancy named spells for a mage? Lets mess things up.

    Try to imagine, that 4th spec. drastically differs from others that one class has. For example:

    1. Death Knight:
    - Blood, Tank, melee, str. plate
    - Frost, DPS, melee (2h/DW), str. plate
    - Unholy, DPS, melee, str. plate, pet
    -*New spec idea: Necromancy, DPS, ranged spell caster, int. cloth. (Short Overview: involves spamming the battlefield with undead minion in great numbers. Benefits from sacrificing them. Weak in close combat.)

    2. Warlock
    - Every spec. so far is simply about not letting the enemy come close to you. Yeah playstyles differ but its not such a big difference. Just a matter of personal liking.
    -*New spec ideaemon Hunter(yeah, yeah i know...), DPS, mixed melee and ranged, Leather agility. (SO: Normally melee physicial, 2 stances: first, half-demon: only wings and horns, illidan-ish look - changes few abilities into ranged ones, grants spells such as jumps and can fly for a short time to avoid damage. Stance 2: Fully metamorphed, ranged-spell damage. All spells change into long-range, casted ones.)

    From these examples you probably get the general idea. Lets refresh existing classes with new specs that would give a feeling that you get to play a new one. Lets give mage a plate int armor and a sword (battle mage/spell breaker?), make his spells mostly instants and castable from melee to 10 yards range. Make hunters fight in close combat and rely more on their pet, perhaps even allow them to change into a beast for a short time. Make warrior use throwns and a playstyle consisting of throwing weapons from long range at the target.

    Introducing 4th specs like this would imho improve the gameplay. There surely have been a lot of ppl that tried to fight in melee as hunter or kite targets as death knight and let dots + pets eat the foe. Demonology warlocks loved to melee in wotlk and a bit less in cata.

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Nty. /10 char

  3. #3
    High Overlord Schockadin's Avatar
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    It's just simple math: 11 classes with everyone get one new spec means 11 new specs. Just remember how much influence the introduction of the DK or Monk had (both with just 3 specs) and then think about the mess up we get with 11 new specs. It just won't work. I know, with druids it worked, but only due to the fact feral was always a 2-in-1 spec.

    Besides this, your ideas sound okay, but a warlock getting to level 10 and then instead of wearing int-cloth suddenly needing agi-leather or the dk which then needs int-cloth? That does not fit the whole class concept we had over the last 9 years. One armor type for all specs of a class, just maybe different stats. I'd rather bet we get a new class then a fourth spec, sorry.

    And tbh I do not see how your ideas could really change the gameplay? The new DK-spec you suggest would just be another ranged dps class. Well, his spells would differ from existing classes and specs, but in the end, it's just a caster dps. There is simply not really that much room for re-inventing the wheel as there are four roles: Melee DPS, Range DPS, Tank and Healer. As long as you don't introduce another role, nothing in gameplay would change.


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  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk
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    I love how people insta-shit on this, but semantics and how it's carried out aside, it's true, it WOULD open up a lot of new ways to play, it WOULD be a fresh take on stuff. I like it OP, don't mind the knee jerk small minders who are afraid of change.
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  5. #5
    That would ruin pvp once and for all. With the baseline resil it is bad enough.

  6. #6
    Sure, if done well it would be fine; just like most things.

  7. #7
    4th spec for the sake of it? Nah.

    4th spec if it fits the class? Hell yeah.

    Some classes seem to struggle even with three unique specs (Hunters and Rogues, mainly). Others would vastly benefit from a 4th spec (and main benefit the whole game by spreading out gear requirements). Spellcaster Death Knights, ranged physical Monks (i.e. uses a bow), that sort of thing.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goremonger View Post
    That would ruin pvp once and for all. With the baseline resil it is bad enough.
    How so? How would adding a 4th spec in specific ruin pvp once and for all?
    You read the OP's post and THIS is all you come up with? lol
    Firstly, you're wrong. Secondly, you're being near sighted.
    I think it might actually make pvp more interesting, and less cut and dry.
    As for your obvious balance concern...is it balanced now? Will it be balanced next season?
    Yah. right.
    And really, they can apply what they already learned about balancing to these 11 new specs can't they?

    mmochamp, home of knee jerk reactions, angst driven hate, fear of change, and epicenter of the worlds largest logic void, so big it can be seen from space.
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  9. #9
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Done right it could be awesome.

    But I'd say the chances of it being done flawlessly is slim to none.


    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    4th spec for the sake of it? Nah.

    4th spec if it fits the class? Hell yeah.

    Some classes seem to struggle even with three unique specs (Hunters and Rogues, mainly). Others would vastly benefit from a 4th spec (and main benefit the whole game by spreading out gear requirements). Spellcaster Death Knights, ranged physical Monks (i.e. uses a bow), that sort of thing.
    Also, this.
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  10. #10
    I think if we're ever going to get a Demon Hunter-anything, it needs to be a new class or hero class. The whole iconic "spectral sight" and blindfold thing should just be saved for that. Plus, we can't give that as a spec to Warlocks! Warlocks work with demons, not really against them per se.

  11. #11
    It could work, I think a lot of people will like it, will be tough to balance though.

  12. #12
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    4th spec for the sake of it? Nah.

    4th spec if it fits the class? Hell yeah.

    Some classes seem to struggle even with three unique specs (Hunters and Rogues, mainly). Others would vastly benefit from a 4th spec (and main benefit the whole game by spreading out gear requirements). Spellcaster Death Knights, ranged physical Monks (i.e. uses a bow), that sort of thing.

    lol Hunters and rogues aren't as much of a struggle as you put them off as.

    I could come up with 6 specs for both rogue and hunter alone.
    All you have to do is pick one iconic or rogue-ish ideal and build off it.
    rogue: shadowstep--.shadowtank-->
    deadly throw-->a goddamn knife chucking spec/pistols bro
    I could go on endlessly.
    I could do hunter and ever other spec, but it's been done to death on this forum.
    The ideas are out there, and going by other games taking a lead from wow and bringing in different specs that are very close....I'd say it's really, really doable.
    If you doubt it, go play a gw2 thief and try to tell me it's not viable to have a rogue tank, or use pistols, or , or, the list goes on and on.
    The biggest challenge is mmochamp's members reactions, as usual, not you in particular, you're pretty open
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  13. #13
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    It could be fun if done right. Sadly, that's a big IF. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a fourth spec if it made sense for the class... the problem is, some classes would have to stretch to get that fourth class. I see hunters and mages being tricky... Yeah, there are ways it could be done, but you would have to tip toe around rogues/monks for hunters. I guess Mages could go Spellbreaker or something like that, but I don't know if there is enough of a kit to make it more than a current mage with a magical shield. Personally, I would like to see cross classing (in the vein of the old D&D style)... Example: I play a mage, and I get to level 60. At this point, I can choose another trainer to learn from. It would make talent trees feel like what RIFT does, but it could be fun. On the other hand, you could end up with cross classes that are abominations (think mage and DK) or... I guess incompatible is the right word for it. I dunno. Anyway, not a bad idea... could be fun if done right.


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  14. #14
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    lol Hunters and rogues aren't as much of a struggle as you put them off as.

    I could come up with 6 specs for both rogue and hunter alone.
    All you have to do is pick one iconic or rogue-ish ideal and build off it.
    rogue: shadowstep--.shadowtank-->
    deadly throw-->a goddamn knife chucking spec/pistols bro
    I could go on endlessly.
    I could do hunter and ever other spec, but it's been done to death on this forum.
    The ideas are out there, and going by other games taking a lead from wow and bringing in different specs that are very close....I'd say it's really, really doable.
    If you doubt it, go play a gw2 thief and try to tell me it's not viable to have a rogue tank, or use pistols, or , or, the list goes on and on.
    The biggest challenge is mmochamp's members reactions, as usual, not you in particular, you're pretty open
    Giving a rogue the ability to queue as tank is nothing like making a rogue tank.

    A rogue tank requires viable lore, not just "HERE YOU GO!"
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    4th spec for the sake of it? Nah.

    4th spec if it fits the class? Hell yeah.

    Some classes seem to struggle even with three unique specs (Hunters and Rogues, mainly). Others would vastly benefit from a 4th spec (and main benefit the whole game by spreading out gear requirements). Spellcaster Death Knights, ranged physical Monks (i.e. uses a bow), that sort of thing.
    Dont forget Shaman earthwarden tank! Maybe i am biased for playing Shaman but this one should have been implemented a long time ago!

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Constraint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Giving a rogue the ability to queue as tank is nothing like making a rogue tank.

    A rogue tank requires viable lore, not just "HERE YOU GO!"
    Viable lore? Are you serious? Show me the reams of viable lore on Undead Hunters, Dwarf Shaman, Troll Druids etc. You can make anything "viable lore" if you're writing the lore. Don't talk nonsense, if you please.

  17. #17
    I'd like to have 4th spec for every class rather than new class/race/whatever next xpack, but seeing some ideas peole give for them, I'm starting to change my mind.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    Viable lore? Are you serious? Show me the reams of viable lore on Undead Hunters, Dwarf Shaman, Troll Druids etc. You can make anything "viable lore" if you're writing the lore. Don't talk nonsense, if you please.
    Undead hunters make just as much sense as human hunters. You don't need to bound with your animal/pet to get it to do what you say. Dwarf Shamans have been around since Warcraft 2. Troll Druid is more of a stretch then the others yes.

    Rogue would work as an evasion type tank, stretching yes. But ranged rogue, no,

  19. #19
    It would be less work for them to add 3 new classes so there you go.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Yeah if it was done right it could do, But it would be forced I think, there isn't any need to give everyone 4th specs, people need to get over it IMO, It happened to druids for a valid reason, I think throwing that many extra specs into the game would cause some big balance issues, aswell as a ton of other stuff, It's easy to say "done right" it's actually doing it right, that's the issue.
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