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  1. #1

    Is Garrosh Hellscream the most difficult raid boss in WoW history?

    Please discuss. I'm curious as to how Garrosh ranks as it is taking some time for the top guilds to down him.

  2. #2
    I truly doubt when he has contender such as Yogg saron 0 keepers which remained undefeated for a good 89 days I believe so.
    He seems very tough, but I doubt he is hardest boss material, but we'll see how it'll turn out.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Until it takes longer than the bosses on this list, I'd doubt it.

    http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/163...rld_first_list

    It's still VERY early yet. A further breakdown from this link:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651519

    #1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 26th April 2006.
    #2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
    #3 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
    #3 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
    #5 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from Stars' first pull. 7th July 2009
    #6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death (unlocking the Eye). 24th April 2007
    #7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
    #8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
    #9 The Lich King (Heroic 25) - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
    #10 Heroic Al'Akir 25 - 36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death. January 22nd 2011.
    #11 Kael'thas Sunstrider <Lord of the Blood Elves> - 31 days from Solarian's death (first pull). 25th May 2007
    #12 Magtheridon - 29 days from the first level 70 25-man raid. 24th February 2007
    #13 Lady Vashj <Coilfang Matron> - 17 days from being unlocked. 29th March 2007
    #14 Leotheras the Blind - 16 days from Hydross' death. 4th March 2007
    #15 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
    #16 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
    #16 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death (Unlocking Serpentshrine). 16th February 2007
    #16 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 13 days from Heroic Ascendant Council's death. 15th January 2011.
    #16 tied Heroic Nefarian - 13 days from Heroic Atramedes' death. January 9th 2011.
    #20 tied Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. 9th June 2007
    #20 tied Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006
    #22 tied Mimiron Firefighter 25 - 8 days from Ensidia's first pull. May 1st 2009
    #22 tied Sapphiron - 8 days from Four Horsemen dying. 2nd September 2006
    #22 tied Gruul the Dragonkiller - 8 days from Maulgar's death. 3rd February 2007
    #25 Reliquary of Lost Souls - 6 days from Gurtogg's death. 2nd June 2007
    #26 tied Kel'Thuzad - 5 days from Sapphiron's death. 7th September 2006
    #26 tied Kil'jaeden <The Deceiver> - 5 days from the opening of the third Sunwell gate. 25th May 2008
    #26 tied Sinestra - 5 days from Heroic Cho'gall's death. January 20th 2011.
    #29 tied Heroic Anub'arak 25 - 4 days from Heroic Twin Val'kyr's death. September 6th 2009.
    #29 tied M'uru. 4 days from the opening of the second Sunwell gate. 4th May 2008

  4. #4
    That list is irrelevant, both time spent raiding and player skill have increased tremendously. Also, that list includes bosses in gated raids.
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  5. #5
    Epic! Miuku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    player skill have increased tremendously.
    <snip>

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    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-09-29 at 12:11 PM.
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  6. #6
    Moderator LocNess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    snip
    He is correct. The best raiders in the world are better than what they were in Vanilla or BC, hell the average raider is.

    Anyway, way to early to tell.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    <snip>
    lol exactly.

    It's not an irrelevant list. Even gated, those bosses have still been "up" much longer than the short period H-Garrosh has been out.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2013-09-29 at 12:11 PM.

  8. #8
    That list is so flawed, C'thun was bugged. Al'Akir was near impossible on 25man without having half the raid sit out for the first phase. You can't compare bosses from 5-7 years ago to today because guilds are pumping out more attempts in a week then they did in a month back then. Out of that list I'd only consider Lich king, Ragnaros and Yogg 0 actually difficult.
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  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans CosmicGuitars's Avatar
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    Shoddy design, gear gating and bugged encounters does not mean the encounters themselves were more difficult. Only that killing them was near impossible.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    That list is so flawed, C'thun was bugged. Al'Akir was near impossible on 25man without having half the raid sit out for the first phase. You can't compare bosses from 5-7 years ago to today because guilds are pumping out more attempts in a week then they did in a month back then. Out of that list I'd only consider Lich king, Ragnaros and Yogg 0 actually difficult.
    Hey, I didn't make the list I only linked it. Even if you consider Wrath-only raids.....it still is too early to tell, lol.

  11. #11
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    2 weeks isn't really long. And tbh, bosses have been dropping slowly all week, Method only cleared the previous boss just before the end of the previous reset.

    Wait until this reset and then the one after have passed, at that point you can start speculating on how hard the boss is. Half a week in since previous kill, and the reset happening in that half-week too (meaning you have to reclear all bosses), is nothing.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    list.
    Just because it took guilds a lot of days or even months to kill a boss doesn't mean they spent as much time on it. Guilds were not even close to as competitive back in Vanilla, top guilds like Nihilum didn't even use voice communication.

  13. #13
    Imo, I spent the most time on LK normal and heroic. So as of now LK was the hardest boss I've killed, but I suppose when I get to garrosh heroic and that takes a considerable amount of time, he'll be the hardest boss.

  14. #14
    You have to remember that back in Vanilla, you could not get nearly as many attempts on bosses as you can now. The guilds these days are getting hundreds of attempts on some bosses. No way you could have consumables and stuff available to do that back in vanilla.

    Also, the devs are much MUCH better at designing things now and making them challenging, yet doable. think about this, would Garrosh be ´better´ if the devs doubled his health? Nah, it would just be a trainwreck. Back then the devs were pretty off the mark as far as expected dps and stuff like that, so they more often then not just had too many hps for the boss and we called them ´harder´..

  15. #15
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirap View Post
    Just because it took guilds a lot of days or even months to kill a boss doesn't mean they spent as much time on it. Guilds were not even close to as competitive back in Vanilla, top guilds like Nihilum didn't even use voice communication.
    The OP referenced time as a consideration for how hard the boss is. I remembered seeing that list, used some Google-Fu, and linked it as a general reference. Knowing specifically how many hours a guild spent on a given boss at this point is pretty much unknowable, because you know - the game is 10 years old and lots of those people aren't around anymore.

    In any event:
    Quote Originally Posted by Szemere View Post
    Wait until this reset and then the one after have passed, at that point you can start speculating on how hard the boss is. Half a week in since previous kill, and the reset happening in that half-week too (meaning you have to reclear all bosses), is nothing.
    This. ^

  16. #16
    Mechagnome
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    You could ask the people in the four guilds working on garrosh right now. I'm sure some of them already have an opinion of the warchief's mettle in combat and whether or not he holds up to bosses that took wipes in the hundreds to clear.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Until it takes longer than the bosses on this list, I'd doubt it.
    Except that everyone who actually raided at a decent level back then will realise this list IS irrelevant. Incredibly bad class design and stat distribution on armour, buggy as hell bosses, and the average heroic raider today was about as skilled as the very best players in the world back then.

    Was a different game during Classic and to some extent TBC, can't compare to todays raid bosses. If H Lei Shen, Rag, LK, DA, Blackfuse and so on were at the same level of buggyness and class design was the same, the modern bosses would have taken at least twice as long to kill under those conditions. Old bosses weren't remotely close in terms of difficulty.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Until it takes longer than the bosses on this list, I'd doubt it.

    http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/163...rld_first_list

    It's still VERY early yet. A further breakdown from this link:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651519

    #1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 26th April 2006.
    #2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
    #3 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
    #3 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
    #5 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from Stars' first pull. 7th July 2009
    #6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death (unlocking the Eye). 24th April 2007
    #7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
    #8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
    #9 The Lich King (Heroic 25) - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
    #10 Heroic Al'Akir 25 - 36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death. January 22nd 2011.
    #11 Kael'thas Sunstrider <Lord of the Blood Elves> - 31 days from Solarian's death (first pull). 25th May 2007
    #12 Magtheridon - 29 days from the first level 70 25-man raid. 24th February 2007
    #13 Lady Vashj <Coilfang Matron> - 17 days from being unlocked. 29th March 2007
    #14 Leotheras the Blind - 16 days from Hydross' death. 4th March 2007
    #15 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
    #16 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
    #16 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death (Unlocking Serpentshrine). 16th February 2007
    #16 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 13 days from Heroic Ascendant Council's death. 15th January 2011.
    #16 tied Heroic Nefarian - 13 days from Heroic Atramedes' death. January 9th 2011.
    #20 tied Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. 9th June 2007
    #20 tied Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006
    #22 tied Mimiron Firefighter 25 - 8 days from Ensidia's first pull. May 1st 2009
    #22 tied Sapphiron - 8 days from Four Horsemen dying. 2nd September 2006
    #22 tied Gruul the Dragonkiller - 8 days from Maulgar's death. 3rd February 2007
    #25 Reliquary of Lost Souls - 6 days from Gurtogg's death. 2nd June 2007
    #26 tied Kel'Thuzad - 5 days from Sapphiron's death. 7th September 2006
    #26 tied Kil'jaeden <The Deceiver> - 5 days from the opening of the third Sunwell gate. 25th May 2008
    #26 tied Sinestra - 5 days from Heroic Cho'gall's death. January 20th 2011.
    #29 tied Heroic Anub'arak 25 - 4 days from Heroic Twin Val'kyr's death. September 6th 2009.
    #29 tied M'uru. 4 days from the opening of the second Sunwell gate. 4th May 2008
    Some bosses are not relevant at all (like C'thun, because of the "wait for the fix/nerf" requirement), some bosses that should appear in the list don't and finally, you could design a training dummy with a very tight enrage that require the whole raid in BiS to be killed, it wouldn't be "the hardest boss in wow", but it would take months to kill it.
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  19. #19
    Mechagnome Nemah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    Except that everyone who actually raided at a decent level back then will realise this list IS irrelevant.
    I raided at a decent level back then (BC) and I don't recall thinking about bad class design or stat distributions, etc. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't, but I don't recall it....Why? The game was what it was, and then - with the exception of bugs - you either killed the boss or you didn't. Hindsight lends the rest of what you describe, but it doesn't make the time-invested irrelevant.

    Difficulty in today's raiding environment is a subjective term, anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    Was a different game

    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuna View Post
    You could ask the people in the four guilds working on garrosh right now. I'm sure some of them already have an opinion of the warchief's mettle in combat and whether or not he holds up to bosses that took wipes in the hundreds to clear.
    What an excellent idea, lol.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    snip
    But...but it has. :<

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