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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I've heard it from the best raiders in the world that NO bosses compare to Heroic Lich King and Heroic Ragnaros. That list is irrelevant when the raiders who were in the world top 10 for most if not all of the bosses say this.
    Heroic Lich King was deliberately overtuned so that he was either impossible or close to impossible to kill before the first 5% buff. Artificial difficulty.

    Awesome fight all the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Okay, so a bunch of Asians got together, were smart, and decked out their best 10 raiders in 25H gear, then went ahead and did it on 10H, even though, this isn't the official "East First" kill either because they killed him on an EASIER DIFFICULTY.

    I still think you underestimate the rest of the raiding populace. They got down H Blackfuse and H Paragons, so I legit would be greatly surprised if not one of them kills Garrosh on Heroic by next week.
    That may be true, but you had based your answer on that one fact. Can only wait and see what happens.

  3. #103
    Am I wrong or was Ouro significantly easier than C'thun (specially cause bugged/unkillable) and the only reason he is on top of that list is cause guilds who actually got to C'thun were focusing 100% (world first and all) on that and skipped him until C'thun was dead?

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Keren View Post
    jup jup, I would love to see how the average raider today would fight against Lady Vashj. ahaha they would utterly fail if they wouldn't get told which ability is hitting next, which mobs spawns where and dont let me start about macros for communication...
    Is that a joke? Pass the parcel too hard for modern raiders? If you're comparing modern LFR to hardcore TBC progression guilds then maybe lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    I agree that they can't be compared.

    I am not sure about the time. Vanilla required a shit load of time in preparation to raid, now you don't spend nearly as much time preparing. If we are talking about time in the actual instance than yeah, but farming mats for consumables, resist gear, not to mention helping getting guildies attuned and geared up were all activities that they had to do.
    True, I have no hard evidence of the time investment or anything, that is just what I've heard from progression raiders who played from Vanilla to present. Though I will say putting in 300 pulls on a boss in a week is a lot more punishing and indicates far more investment in the game than just farming mats.

    Note: I'm not saying that the insane amount of time WF guilds put in is a GOOD thing. I mean they love it so power to them but of course normal players shouldn't try to emulate that. Not if they value sleeping, eating and shitting :P

    Quote Originally Posted by jbombard View Post
    Also 2 major differences were addons and availability of information. Raiders back then were doing a lot more themselves without as much help from addons. We have much better tools now to let people know what they need to do. So I am not sure people are necessarily better now, we have better tools now, we also have a lot more players now so just out of pure numbers we have more good players now and that helps a lot when putting a raid team together.

    I agree I would love to see number of pulls.
    This is absolutely true, I'm sure that at the time the challenge was very real for this and other reasons. The nature of the game and the metagame have evolved a lot, now things like classes, rotations, boss mechanics etc are taken as a given where before they were the whole challenge.

    When I say modern guilds are far better, that's not to disparage the old raiding guilds. Today's HM raiders have a knowledge base and personal experience of up to 8 years to draw from. That changes everything, and Blizzard has increased the challenge of the mechanics and enrages to compensate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Nemah View Post
    Until it takes longer than the bosses on this list, I'd doubt it.

    http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/163...rld_first_list

    It's still VERY early yet. A further breakdown from this link:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2794651519

    #1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 26th April 2006.
    #2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
    #3 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
    #3 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
    #5 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from Stars' first pull. 7th July 2009
    #6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death (unlocking the Eye). 24th April 2007
    #7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
    #8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
    #9 The Lich King (Heroic 25) - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
    #10 Heroic Al'Akir 25 - 36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death. January 22nd 2011.
    #11 Kael'thas Sunstrider <Lord of the Blood Elves> - 31 days from Solarian's death (first pull). 25th May 2007
    #12 Magtheridon - 29 days from the first level 70 25-man raid. 24th February 2007
    #13 Lady Vashj <Coilfang Matron> - 17 days from being unlocked. 29th March 2007
    #14 Leotheras the Blind - 16 days from Hydross' death. 4th March 2007
    #15 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
    #16 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
    #16 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death (Unlocking Serpentshrine). 16th February 2007
    #16 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 13 days from Heroic Ascendant Council's death. 15th January 2011.
    #16 tied Heroic Nefarian - 13 days from Heroic Atramedes' death. January 9th 2011.
    #20 tied Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. 9th June 2007
    #20 tied Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006
    #22 tied Mimiron Firefighter 25 - 8 days from Ensidia's first pull. May 1st 2009
    #22 tied Sapphiron - 8 days from Four Horsemen dying. 2nd September 2006
    #22 tied Gruul the Dragonkiller - 8 days from Maulgar's death. 3rd February 2007
    #25 Reliquary of Lost Souls - 6 days from Gurtogg's death. 2nd June 2007
    #26 tied Kel'Thuzad - 5 days from Sapphiron's death. 7th September 2006
    #26 tied Kil'jaeden <The Deceiver> - 5 days from the opening of the third Sunwell gate. 25th May 2008
    #26 tied Sinestra - 5 days from Heroic Cho'gall's death. January 20th 2011.
    #29 tied Heroic Anub'arak 25 - 4 days from Heroic Twin Val'kyr's death. September 6th 2009.
    #29 tied M'uru. 4 days from the opening of the second Sunwell gate. 4th May 2008
    25 LK HC should be higher up tbh, not based on time it took but also because you have to take into account the buff - iirc no one killed it with no buff active, it wasn't until the 5% buff came about he was downed - so you could quite simply say 25 LK HC to this day was never actually killed in its natural state, not without over gearing it.
    Last edited by Zylan; 2013-09-30 at 07:55 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Is that a joke? Pass the parcel too hard for modern raiders? If you're comparing modern LFR to hardcore TBC progression guilds then maybe lol.
    Its fun to watch ppl oversimplify old fights, just so they can discredit the difficulty of them, It shows how uninformed and misslead you are and everyone else who does the same. Also shows that you probably never done those bosses when they were current content, but probably pugged them at lvl 90+, with 10 ppl (probably even wiped a bit).

    Just lady vashj, that you and other "Bad boy" raiders call simple passing of the core, has the same mechanics as any other modern hc boss + the dps to make the kill was as tight as it is today, so ppl had to be on their top dps output to manage it before outgearing it. Spreading around, fast dispells, moving away from melee fast, ranged kite tanking mobs, managing the adds that constantly spawn, good phase shifts, moving the boss around away from aoe that spawns, pulling out top dps to manage the soft enrage and passing the core in the end etc.. So if you are still claming that todays fights have x times more mechanics then old one, then you are just plain lost, since in my book moving away from x effect is the same no matter if its a big black pool or a green acid pool or a fire pool.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Constraint View Post
    Mm, pretty much this. So, so few people who raided those bosses back then are still playing. Next to none. You didn't have a boss mod telling you exactly what to do, when to do it. Every class didn't have numerous "escape death" abilities. DPS had to watch aggro or get one-shot. So many mechanics would one-shot you without forgiveness. Healers didn't have near infinite mana. The "5-second rule" was king for healers for a longggg time for a good reason. Healers couldn't magically top the raid up within a couple of seconds by blowing a few cooldowns. Tanks didn't just have to stand near mobs to magically have AoE threat on everything from one Thunder Clap/HotR/DnD/Thrash. Tanks had to FIGHT for aggro, ALL FIGHT. Why do you think Fetish of the Sand Reaver etc were such good trinkets? Because they had a cool name? You didn't have the luxury of taking a mere 10/25 people. It was just a completely different game.

    I must say though, people discrediting how difficult a few of the older bosses are - you really have no idea what you're talking about, and you're simply making yourselves look foolish. I know because I've been a progression raider since it was possible, and those bosses were BRUTAL. The thing is, it was taken for granted that bosses would be hard. Wiping for weeks/months on certain bosses was a given. Nowadays, it's simply classified poor design on Blizzard's behalf. How times have changed.

    I don't remember half the world (of warcraft) whining when they couldn't kill twin emps, or mag, or mu'ru in a week. You simply kept at it, gave it your all, and eventually killed it.

    Oh and I think I even saw some noob saying Nihilum didn't use voice communication in Vanilla. Mmk. Whatever you say, champ.
    You're being incredibly ignorant about your past experiences. I for one am also an old raider. My expection? I was good at the game and the mathematics about the gear already back then, I wasn't a kid that was in the bottom of my raiding group.

    I'm in a heroic raiding guild now and I am extremely skilled today (if I may say so myself) and the fights are incredibly harder now. The hardest part for me before heroic raids was finding raiders that weren't recently lobotomized. Even the best raiding groups had at least 10 clueless people, but did that matter? No, because if they could spam Shadowbolt or Sunder Armor, they still performed at basically 95% of what their maximum potential was.

    Tanking was hard? No, it wasn't. It required you to roll a warrior (shame on you if you tanked with a different class btw) and tab target while spamming sunder, or in extreme cases, assign different tanks for different mobs. Sure, people would outaggro since the threat system was messed up until late TBC, but the tanking wasn't HARD since it was literally one ability alone that gave you enough threat to keep aggro. It was faulty design.

    Nope, the hard part about 40man raiding was the neverending gear farming and getting 39 other people that actually didn't derp up completely.

    On-topic: I really think the OP should change the post and only include later fights were amount of pulls is taken into account.

    Paragon killed Siegecrafter exactly a day after Thok and they said they had 100 pulls in between (190 in total, but 90 of those were before the Thok kill, if I remember right). That's 100 pulls/day if they keep the same pace on othe bosses, which they probably do.

    How many pulls/hour did you get back then? How many minutes did it take just running back and getting everyone buffed again or how often did someone important dc or had to go to dinner so you had to find a replacement?

    Surely you do understand that raidbosses today are harder. I don't think you're trying to convince us, I honestly think you're trying to convince yourself. Deep down, you know that raids today are harder, but for some reason, you're not in a hotshot heroic guild today like you really want to. That's why you convince yourself of Vanilla being harder so you don't have to be let down by yourself for "not being one of the best". But trust me, bosses are harder today and you're not one of the greatest raiders ever if you managed to down Kel'thuzad unless you've downed at least some of the harder bosses nowadays pre-nerf.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Okay, so a bunch of Asians got together, were smart, and decked out their best 10 raiders in 25H gear, then went ahead and did it on 10H, even though, this isn't the official "East First" kill either because they killed him on an EASIER DIFFICULTY.

    I still think you underestimate the rest of the raiding populace. They got down H Blackfuse and H Paragons, so I legit would be greatly surprised if not one of them kills Garrosh on Heroic by next week.
    It isn't very much different than what guilds do in the EU/US. Split off main raiders to play with alts, funnelling all gear to said raiders while the alts get nothing. I like how that is legit, yet Asian guild(s) get talked down on, even on the front page of MMO champ, just because of some ilevel difference and not even that much to be honest. A kill is a kill.

    I loved Vanilla/TBC because you could be a top guild and raid 2-3 nights a week for 4 hours. Now it's not going to happen.

    Surely you do understand that raidbosses today are harder. I don't think you're trying to convince us, I honestly think you're trying to convince yourself. Deep down, you know that raids today are harder, but for some reason, you're not in a hotshot heroic guild today like you really want to. That's why you convince yourself of Vanilla being harder so you don't have to be let down by yourself for "not being one of the best". But trust me, bosses are harder today and you're not one of the greatest raiders ever if you managed to down Kel'thuzad unless you've downed at least some of the harder bosses nowadays pre-nerf.
    Game has also evolved. Mods have made the encounters harder and harder, not increasing player skill. Most of the players from vanilla have already quit, you must see that. Nothing in the game can hold a candle to Naxx 40/Uld. Nothing. In you I see someone who never raided seriously in Vanilla/TBC.

    Good day sir.
    Last edited by iggie; 2013-09-30 at 08:16 AM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellum View Post
    I take it you've never seen the video for world first Illidan? They used voice communication, even then. In fact, it was used on pretty much every world first I can think of, even back to vanilla. Watch the videos. Most of them have the vent/TS chatter dubbed in.
    Could you give me a link to this please? I remember a lot of chat writing and no vent chatting in the Illidan WF vid.

    Heroic Lich King was deliberately overtuned so that he was either impossible or close to impossible to kill before the first 5% buff. Artificial difficulty.
    Tuned close to impossible is good. Maximizing should be a major part of hc raiding. Just mastering the mechanics is normal mode.
    Impossible/requires insane class stacking is not cool however.

  10. #110
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Short Answer: Lolno. Asia already killed him <2 weeks after Heroic was unlocked. He was killed on Day 1 of the patch going live on Normal. We'll see a Heroic West First kill by next week at the LATEST.

    Long Answer: There have been much harder/tougher bosses that have taken significantly more time, or even requiring a nerf to even kill. Ragnaros Heroic was actually done in an incorrect way because of his legendary difficulty (Magma Geyser was NOT intended to have triangulation in the equation, and Blizzard has outright claimed that the strategy used was not originally intended), and Ra-Den, the most recent end-of-the-tier bosses was also done incorrectly. Blizzard wanted us to experience Anima phases, but we simply skipped them in favor of purely doing Vita phases. Granted, he wasn't as hard as other bosses (Lei Shen 25H for example... *Shudders*)

    Trust me when I say this, but there most likely will never be bosses as hard as previous ones from Lich King or previous.

    Some of the hardest fights:

    - Almost anything in Vanilla (due to the lack of knowledge and lack of tools to use at your disposal for the unfair challenges)
    - All of Naxx due to so few people even getting to see it, let alone clearing it (a reason why it was remade as T7 for Lich King's release)
    - Every end-boss in T5/T6 in BC, as well as most of the bosses in T6
    - Mimiron Firefighter, Yogg+0, and Algalon on 25m
    you have no experience on any of the bosses that you have listed while they were considered relevant content if you managed to kill them at all, and have not yet seen heroic garrosh or let alone heard of how difficult he is, yet you have somehow come to the conclusion that because a guild with 10ilvls on the rest of the world managed to kill the boss that it is not difficult.

    please never post in such a thread again with this useless dribbling nonsense as everything you have said is ridiculous.
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  11. #111
    High Overlord Grunhither's Avatar
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    Yogg 0 and LK Heroic seem harder than Garrosh heroic is.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    Could you give me a link to this please? I remember a lot of chat writing and no vent chatting in the Illidan WF vid.
    People were using vent since Vanilla. Teamspeak came out during BC, I believe.

  13. #113
    Bloodsail Admiral furydeath's Avatar
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    Of that old old list not counting bugged bosses, Cthun, despawning KT,I would say yogg 0 and maybe The Four Horsemen? I don't remeber that ever being bugged as much as the others.


    M'uru was never even killed back in BC before the nerf wasn't it? A lot of bosses back in BC had to be nerfed Vashj MCing all the tank's D:
    Last edited by furydeath; 2013-09-30 at 08:34 AM.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by furydeath View Post
    Of that old old list not counting bugged bosses, Cthun, despawning KT,I would say yogg 0 and maybe The Four Horsemen? I don't remeber that ever being bugged as much as the others.


    M'uru was never even killed back in BC before the nerf wasn't it?
    The 'legendary' pre-nerf M'uru died in 4 days to SK Gaming.

    Also that list everyone keeps copy pasting was updated http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ed-the-longest

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Updated for this tier.

    I see a lot of misinformation out there regarding how long bosses took to die so I thought I'd recreate this thread. DISCLAIMER: This thread is not trying to measure difficulty.



    These are from the date it was possible to begin working on them, or the previous hard mode was killed by the guild in question, I'm sure people might quibble with some of them but I did my best. Going with 25-mans here.

    This is obviously not indicative of their relative difficulty but it's interesting. Lots of caveats of course. Like Ulduar's design lending it to people being able to progress anywhere and various limited attempt bosses.

    The reason Yogg-Saron and Mimiron count from the opening of Ulduar is that from day one it was possible to immediately go in and begin working on Alone in the Darkness. With other bosses it was 100% impossible to start pulls testing them out until the previous boss was slain.

    #1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. (1 day from C'thun's death) 26th April 2006.
    #2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
    #3 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 83 days from General Vezax's death. (39 days from STARS' previous Ulduar kill) 7th July 2009
    #4 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
    #4 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
    #6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death. (24 days from Death Wish's previous tier 5 kill) 24th April 2007
    #7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
    #8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
    #9 Heroic The Lich King - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
    #10 Heroic Al'Akir - 38 days from being unlocked. (36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death) January 22nd 2011.
    #11 Algalon the Observer - 33 days from Firefighter. June 3rd 2009.
    #12 tied Kael'thas Sunstrider <Lord of the Blood Elves> - 31 days from Solarian's death. 25th May 2007
    #12 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 31 days from being unlocked. (13 days from 3/5 Bastion of Twilight) 15th January 2011.
    #14 tied Magtheridon - 29 days from the first 70 raid kills. (21 days from Gruul's death) 24th February 2007
    #14 tied Leotheras the Blind - 29 days from Gruul's death. (16 days from Nihilum's Hydross kill) 4th March 2007
    #16 Heroic Nefarian - 25 days from being unlocked. (13 days from 5/6 Blackwing Descent) January 9th 2011.
    #17 tied Mimiron Firefighter - 17 days from the opening of Ulduar. (8 days from Ensidia's previous Ulduar kill) May 1st 2009
    #17 tied Lady Vashj <Coilfang Matron> - 17 days from being unlocked. 29th March 2007
    #19 Ra-Den - 16 days from Lei Shen's death. April 11th 2013.
    #20 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
    #21 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
    #21 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death. 16th February 2007
    #23 Heroic Ragnaros (Firelands) - 11 days from Heroic Majordomo Staghelm's death. July 19th 2011.
    #24 tied Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. (6 days from Nihilum's previous tier 6 kill) 9th June 2007
    #24 tied Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006
    #26 Heroic Spine of Deathwing - 9 days from Heroic Blackhorn's death. 22nd December 2011
    #27 tied Sapphiron - 8 days from Four Horsemen dying. 2nd September 2006
    #27 tied Gruul the Dragonkiller - 8 days from Maulgar's death. 3rd February 2007
    #29 Reliquary of Lost Souls - 6 days from Supremus' death. 2nd June 2007

    #29 Heroic Lei Shen - 6 days from Twin Consorts' death. 26th March 2013.
    #31 tied Kel'Thuzad - 5 days from Sapphiron's death. 7th September 2006
    #31 tied Kil'jaeden <The Deceiver> - 5 days from the opening of the third Sunwell gate. 25th May 2008
    #31 tied Sinestra - 5 days from Heroic Cho'gall's death. January 20th 2011.

    Honourable Mentions:
    #34 Heroic Anub'arak - 4 days from Heroic Twin Val'kyr's death. September 6th 2009.
    #34 M'uru. 4 days from the opening of the second Sunwell gate. 4th May 2008
    #34 Heroic Sha of Fear. 4 days from the death of Heroic Lei Shi. 24th November 2012.

    Thanks to SK-Gaming's handy list of all time world firsts and wowprogress.com.

    http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/163...rld_first_list

    Classic
    Burning Crusade
    Wrath of the Lich King
    Cataclysm
    Mists of Pandaria
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2013-09-30 at 08:38 AM.

  15. #115
    Some of the entries in the list are kind of irrelevant. Yogg-0 was impossible in the gear without stacking DoT classes. Stars were simply the first to get that many of them in one place. Similar for the others. Four Horsemen required something like 8 fully geared tanks. You either had to gear up more (and in Vanilla that took a long time), decimate lower guilds for their tanks (or at least borrow them), or just not do the encounter. Many of the vanilla ones took that time because that's how long it took to get the correct amount of resistance gear.

    Class stacking to beat the encounter early is one thing. Class stacking to beat them *at all* is another.

    We're seeing more encounters beaten as early as they are through better tuning, and through more guilds having the time and resources to pull 5 alt raids a week in order to gear the mains faster. The so-called "dumbification" of WoW really helps with that.

  16. #116
    I don't see any of them as irrelevant because it's not trying to measure difficulty, just how long they took to die.

    Yogg-Saron gets points for 'most brutally overtuned mostly unbugged encounter at release' though. That's a lot of weeks of gear.

  17. #117
    We don't have any data on the number of pulls/wipes for those old bosses. Some of them (number one on the list for one, IIRC) died in just a few attempts, they were gated or after bugs. They may have required more effort to down, but we just have no way of knowing anymore.

    It's been since wrath that a boss took this much pure time, I think. But, who can tell how many attempts were made before success? That makes a big difference. A boss nobody bothered to fight or couldn't get to might take years to drop, but die on the first pull. Time isn't really a good indicator of anything except world-first. I mean, if method drops the boss tomorrow but has (lets just say arbitrarily) 500 pulls, but then "Random EU Guild" kills him next week with only 80, then we're talking two different things, right?

    So, you can't go by time. If the first boss in a raid was the hardest in that raid, he'd _still_ drop faster than every boss after him, even if every boss after him was a oneshot that could be solo'd by a disc priest.

    Unfortunately, we can't really know for sure. I know that I knew a lot of guilds wiping on KT25, a lot of guilds wiping on LK25H. I haven't fought Gary, but I personally think LK25H is the hardest thing I've ever done on WoW by far. That's just anecdotal.

    I find it interesting that it's taking so long for Gary to drop, but there's now way of knowing if he's the hardest based only on time, unfortunately. I just noticed wowprog is tracking pulls as well as time, so in the future we'll have a new measure to judge difficulty by. For now, there's no way to be sure about old encounters, and probably never will be.

  18. #118
    Dreadlord Danmakus's Avatar
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    Four horsemen in vanilla, Kael'thas in BC, Yogg-saron 0 & algalon + LK25HC for Wotlk. Sinestra in Cata

    might as well be Garrosh for this expansion. can't wait to get my shots at him :#

    just my opinion anyway.

  19. #119
    Ouro only tops that list because he was intentionally skipped as most guilds at the time went from twins straight to C'thun. Soon as C'thun is downed after being bugfixed (tentacles in the stomach and trouble with the lazer beam) Ouro is downed the next day.

    Vashj and Kael were bugged, as was Chrommagus.

    4 Horseman, despite still to this day holding the record for longest undefeated encounter with no bugfix/hotfix/nerf/alteration of any kind before being defeated wasn't a hard fight. It was a gear check, since tanks needed the set bonus so Taunt wouldn't miss due to it being a spell. Some of the other bosses are again simply gear checks, or rather a resistance check, stacking buffs and resistance gear. The fights themselves had very little in the way of mechanics, unlike bosses of today.

    Take a look at the vanilla bosses on that list. Some of those bosses have only 3 or 4 abilities/mechanics over the course of the entire fight. Compare that to Lich King, Yogg'saron, FL Ragnaros, Lei Shen who have more than 3 abilities just in the first phase alone.

    If you want to use that list do it the right way, that is the list of how long it took to defeat bosses, not a test of how hard they were. Lothoab or Heigan are harder than Sapphiron, who is primarily a resistance check.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmist View Post
    Some of the entries in the list are kind of irrelevant. Yogg-0 was impossible in the gear without stacking DoT classes. Stars were simply the first to get that many of them in one place. Similar for the others. Four Horsemen required something like 8 fully geared tanks. You either had to gear up more (and in Vanilla that took a long time), decimate lower guilds for their tanks (or at least borrow them), or just not do the encounter. Many of the vanilla ones took that time because that's how long it took to get the correct amount of resistance gear.

    Class stacking to beat the encounter early is one thing. Class stacking to beat them *at all* is another.
    stars used 5 warlocks
    3 days later paragons kills it with 4 warlocks
    3 days after that premonition kills it with 3 warlocks

    muru required 5 shamans on its first kill,exodus world2nd used 4 .

    heroic spine required 7 mages on its first kill, stars used 6 world 2nd, blood legion used 8 world 3rd .

    hell it was required for early kills to have 2 death knights for 25man H lei shen, i guess that's not a real kill either since it required them in order to beat it.
    Last edited by cyqu; 2013-09-30 at 11:08 AM.
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