Till we see a video of Garrosh or hear from the players that killed him i still go with Yogg+0 as the hardest.
Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.
I quit during 5.1, so I have no comment for Garrosh, but I raided at a very high level from Vanilla through to DS and have a few thoughts for this thread.
One I rule out immediately is C’Thun. He was overtuned to the point of impossibility. At the time, people actually believed that Blizzard didn’t even want him killed. After he was nerfed, the first guild that reached him killed him. There’s a big difference between hard to kill and impossible, and pre-nerf C’Thun was the latter.
My top three:
Yogg 0: Following on from what I said above about hard/impossible, it’s funny that people are arguing this for the simple reason that only one guild figured out how to kill his pre-nerf state making this possible. I remember Ensidia at the time complaining that they weren’t even bothering with him because the last phase was such a mess. All the other kills pre-nerf that followed only happened after Stars released detailed guides on how to handle the shadow beacons in P3. Even still, most Death’s Demise guilds killed him post-nerf when the beacons were limited to three.
M’uru: Even despite the first week nerfs, M’uru stands (to me) as the pinnacle of the ultimate gear and skill check. Everyone in the fight had an important job, and most people had more than one job. The adds had to be controlled and killed, he had to be pushed at the right wave and you had to have the damage, healing and situational awareness for the last phase. Pre 3.0, until you had M’uru trinkets and KJ weapons, if one person screwed up, or lagged, the fight would wipe. Pure perfection.
4HM (Vanilla): I could have picked Heroic LK, Heroic Rag or KT/Vashj, as they were all exceptional fights (though the artificial gating of H LK with the ICC buff kind of ruined it) but having 8 warriors wearing 4 piece T3 was a hard enough challenge of its own, let alone the damage they took, managing taunt misses, stack dancing, and keeping everyone alive throughout the fight. There are other fights that were technically more difficult and others that were far more gimmicky but the sheer brute force pain of 4HM I’ll never forget.
As a disclaimer I have not raided competitively since ICC, but the fights today seem very complex in comparison to the past. However I think you do have to take into consideration the immense changes not only in player skill but all the new talents and stuff that have really changed the game. H Lei Shen looks incredibly complex compared to a fight like Algalon (who was a letdown btw), but the game has evolved so much you're really just comparing apples to oranges at this point.
for us dps, the fight was a pain aswell, me (hunter) had to kill the dying stars on planned timings to avoid the sudden damage to kill anyone who were to low, avoid the cosmic smash on the floor while doing so and make sure there's enough black holes to go around when Algalon decides to 'divide by zero'
We also had to kite the constallations to close black holes so we had room to move.
Tanks had to manage the pashe strikes and avoid getting pashed out before a big bang and get aggro back ASAP after a big bang had been casted.
other things worth mentioning;
-if no one were attacking algalon (everyone was inside the shadowrealm, or the tank keeping aggro on him died) he wiped the raid.
-heavy raidwide aoe from cosmic strikes and dying star explosions
-had to move into the shadowrealm for big bang to avoid getting oneshotted (except the tank keeping algalon busy so he doesn't wipe raid)
-if you stood in the cosmic smash ring you got knocked up in the air and died from falling damage
-only had a 1h window to kill him each week
-dying stars lost health over time, so some of them could explode at bad timings
-the dpscheck was tight.
Im personally still pissed that they got the kill before us, specially with the tactic they used.
Last edited by lappee; 2013-10-02 at 09:24 AM.
Did it even cross your mind that they might be a tad bit biased in this regard?
Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.
I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.
Yet now it seems we have at least one Method member essentially running to these forums claiming current day Method is the best guild of all time, and that what anyone else did prior to their latest achievements quite honestly just doesn't really compare, as what everyone else killed world first was plain easier than the last three bosses Method killed. What exactly is it that makes you take this one person's word for it? How can you look at what this person says, at how he praises himself, and say 'yeah, that's a very objective opinion, I'll take his word for it'?
That is a good start. Nobody can't say that "there are more skilled players this days, ergo, this bosses are/were fail". Every time, every raid and every expansion had his "difficult" and that type of difficult was focused on the player base.#1 Ouro - 87 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 26th April 2006.
#2 C'thun - 86 days from the Twin Emperors' death. 25th April 2006.
#3 tied Chromaggus - 74 days from Ebonroc's death. 25th September 2005.
#3 tied Ragnaros - 74 days from Majordomo Executus' death. 25th April 2005.
#5 Yogg-Saron, Alone in the Darkness - 70 days from Stars' first pull. 7th July 2009
#6 High Astromancer Solarian - 59 days from Magtheridon's death (unlocking the Eye). 24th April 2007
#7 The Four Horsemen - 56 days from Gothik's death to D&T's kill. August 25th 2006
#8 Al'ar <Phoenix God> - 48 days from Magtheridon's death. 13th April 2007
#9 The Lich King (Heroic 25) - 42 Days from Heroic Putricide's death (first pull). March 26th 2010
#10 Heroic Al'Akir 25 - 36 days from Heroic Conclave of Wind's death. January 22nd 2011.
#11 Kael'thas Sunstrider <Lord of the Blood Elves> - 31 days from Solarian's death (first pull). 25th May 2007
#12 Magtheridon - 29 days from the first level 70 25-man raid. 24th February 2007
#13 Lady Vashj <Coilfang Matron> - 17 days from being unlocked. 29th March 2007
#14 Leotheras the Blind - 16 days from Hydross' death. 4th March 2007
#15 Loatheb - 14 days from Heigan's death. 17th July 2006
#16 tied Heigan the Unclean - 13 days from Noth the Plaguebringer's death. 3rd July 2006
#16 tied Hydross the Unstable <Duke of Currents> - 13 days from Gruul's death (Unlocking Serpentshrine). 16th February 2007
#16 tied Heroic Cho'gall - 13 days from Heroic Ascendant Council's death. 15th January 2011.
#16 tied Heroic Nefarian - 13 days from Heroic Atramedes' death. January 9th 2011.
#20 tied Archimonde <The Defiler> - 10 days from Azgalor's death. 9th June 2007
#20 tied Gothik the Harvester - 10 days from Instructor Razuvious' death. 30th June 2006
#22 tied Mimiron Firefighter 25 - 8 days from Ensidia's first pull. May 1st 2009
#22 tied Sapphiron - 8 days from Four Horsemen dying. 2nd September 2006
#22 tied Gruul the Dragonkiller - 8 days from Maulgar's death. 3rd February 2007
#25 Reliquary of Lost Souls - 6 days from Gurtogg's death. 2nd June 2007
#26 tied Kel'Thuzad - 5 days from Sapphiron's death. 7th September 2006
#26 tied Kil'jaeden <The Deceiver> - 5 days from the opening of the third Sunwell gate. 25th May 2008
#26 tied Sinestra - 5 days from Heroic Cho'gall's death. January 20th 2011.
#29 tied Heroic Anub'arak 25 - 4 days from Heroic Twin Val'kyr's death. September 6th 2009.
#29 tied M'uru. 4 days from the opening of the second Sunwell gate. 4th May 2008
Up until Lich King, not many top guilds were getting penalized for getting world firsts via exploits, which they had been taking advantage of since Vanilla...so some of those killed dates, though true, may have been extended if it weren't for that fact.