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  1. #121
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invection View Post
    How do you think Healthcare should be run in the US or world?
    There's only one way that reliably works to ensure that everyone, regardless of income or life situation, can get the treatment they need without paying extortionist prices, and that is freely avaliable public healthcare, financed by taxation and administered by the government. No other model works equally well when it comes to supply what everyone, sooner or later, is dependant on.

    This can of course be supplemented by private alternatives for those who wish, but they should be alternatives only. The public version should always be well funded and run, so that there will be no need, beyond personal preference, to choose private options.
    All true wealth is biological. -Lois McMaster Bujold

    Attention: This is weather. This is climate. Learn the difference between the two before you use weather to "disprove climate change".

  2. #122
    Dreadlord Xisa's Avatar
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    There are no benefits in handing anything over to the UN.

    You think National government are corrupt? Wait until you're in a situation where you only have ONE government. Dick Cheney will seem like Santa Claus in comparison.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    There's only one way that reliably works to ensure that everyone, regardless of income or life situation, can get the treatment they need without paying extortionist prices, and that is freely avaliable public healthcare, financed by taxation and administered by the government. No other model works equally well when it comes to supply what everyone, sooner or later, is dependant on.

    This can of course be supplemented by private alternatives for those who wish, but they should be alternatives only. The public version should always be well funded and run, so that there will be no need, beyond personal preference, to choose private options.
    Pretty much this. Generally speaking I tend to be about as anti socialism as possible (or at least anti liberal) but not in regards to healthcare.

  4. #124
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xisa View Post
    There are no benefits in handing anything over to the UN.

    You think National government are corrupt? Wait until you're in a situation where you only have ONE government. Dick Cheney will seem like Santa Claus in comparison.
    Yeeeeah like we're not basically becoming a one nation planet anyways....Seriously so little variance in "first world" laws it's kinda crazy...

    Anyways I say do what most nations with sense are...We need regulation both for the medical industry AND for our school systems....Books for college and education especially...Not like fucking monks are translating and copying by hand still(thank you Gutenburg if I recall right)....

    Also YES slash the overblown military budget pay off our bloody debts and get a COMPLETE NATIONWIDE infrastructure overhaul going with maintenance afterwards. Tax the wealthy what they were in the past 80 fucking percent and yes they WERE taxed that much in america they wanna jump ship then fine they can be fucking banned from ANY of their companies working here.

    As I see I it if people wanna play hardball with the general populace then they'd better be ready to lose....And what I'm saying is better then the alternative for them(death) that a good ol revolution would bring

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaoBurning View Post
    Why is it disgusting? I will then follow up with the noted fact that most, if not all, countries with single payer systems pay less for their care (as a % of GDP and nearly every other metric I've found) than the US for similar or better care. All evidence indicates that despite our reservations the single payer system works great.



    Trouble is sometimes you have to take a look to see if something is life threatening. I went to the ER about a month back with god awful pains in my right lower abdomen. Turned out to be kidney stones - those hurt, spoiler alert - but I needed a scan to figure out exactly what was going on. Could have been my appendix or bad gas for all anyone knew just looking at me.

    My uncle also went in a couple weeks back for an abnormally high, persistent fever. We don't go do the ER all whimsically, in case anyone gets the wrong idea. Turns out he had a blood infection and several abscesses developing in, shall we say, very private areas. Again, sometimes simple symptoms are indicative of much more serious conditions and you don't know that until you take the time to practice some good ol' fashioned medicine.

    Addendum: If it wasn't clear, I'm in favor of adopting the European/Canadian/Japanese/rest of the civilized world's model of healthcare. Seems to work well enough. I'd go so far as to venture that it's borderline immoral to keep practicing such a flawed system when others are readily available.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yep. As far as I've read the countries with public options also allow private insurance too. It's just not a life or death necessity.
    and any competent doctor would read the note saying "extreme lower abdominal pain" and come to a conclusion that this could be a potentially life threatening problem..

    forgiving little bits of debt here and there is fine.. we can easily absorb that through the massive charitable contributions hospitals receive and tax write offs.. and we already have many existing programs to help people who can't help themselves

    another problem is our 12 million illegal immigrants.. the fact that they are largely untouchable right now because of political correctness is a gigantic burden on our system as these people can't be turned away.. and since they are technically not even here.. there is no way to attach any wage garnishments etc to them.. which means they can literally come and go for free as they see fit..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yirrah View Post
    There's only one way that reliably works to ensure that everyone, regardless of income or life situation, can get the treatment they need without paying extortionist prices, and that is freely avaliable public healthcare, financed by taxation and administered by the government. No other model works equally well when it comes to supply what everyone, sooner or later, is dependant on.

    This can of course be supplemented by private alternatives for those who wish, but they should be alternatives only. The public version should always be well funded and run, so that there will be no need, beyond personal preference, to choose private options.
    this is simply not true.. nothing is free.. the only thing a public system does is force people who actually pay taxes to subsidize you
    the most beautiful post I have ever read.. thank you Dr-1337 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22624432

  6. #126
    I am Murloc! Tommo's Avatar
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    The healthcare most of the developed world uses is what id go for. Dont want to be bankrupt because I broke a toe.

  7. #127
    The Lightbringer Yirrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    this is simply not true.. nothing is free.. the only thing a public system does is force people who actually pay taxes to subsidize you
    And? I said "freely avaliable", not "free". Freely avaliable as in "you get help without paying in any other way than through paying your taxes as anyone should" And I pay my taxes, and pay them happily, knowing that they finance public services that everyone needs, including me, so spare me the patronization.
    All true wealth is biological. -Lois McMaster Bujold

    Attention: This is weather. This is climate. Learn the difference between the two before you use weather to "disprove climate change".

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by ishootblanks View Post
    this is simply not true.. nothing is free.. the only thing a public system does is force people who actually pay taxes to subsidize you
    What do you think Health Insurance does? Or do you think your premiums go into a special little "Break in Case of ishootblanks Emergency" fund that nobody else touches.
    "But uh, says on your chart that you're fucked up. You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded!"

    On Parole from Retard Rehabilitation since June 6, 2014.

  9. #129
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I dislike the "I'm paying for your _____" arguments, as they imply that the individual is directly being forced to pay for another. That's not how it works. Everybody pays for everybody else, as well as themselves. You are paying for your own care as well as the care of others.
    Is it a rule that you have to be rude and sarcastic in every conversation here?

  10. #130
    Banned Hooked's Avatar
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    Why is ok for tax payers to foot the bill for socialized healthcare, but it isnt ok for uninsured to pay their own bills?.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    Why is ok for tax payers to foot the bill for socialized healthcare, but it isnt ok for uninsured to pay their own bills?.
    I think you forgot to ask why people hate freedom so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I think you forgot to ask why people hate freedom so much.
    I hate freedom because people should bear the crippling burden of being imprisoned in a useless body should they befall a medical tragedy and not have hundreds of thousands of surplus dollars to afford out of control capitalist driven free market prices of health care.

    In other words, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should really only be available to those that can afford it.

    (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth)
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
    Ezekiel 23:20, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Mark 10:25, James 5:1-6, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 19:21, Numbers 5:11-31

  13. #133
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Fully government-controlled. It is a civil service, and everyone should have the same rights and the same benefits when it comes to healthcare, education and other civil services.
    This, the only thing that would cost money (and therefore go on insurance) would be medicine for your illness AFTER you left the hospital. So any medicine you use during your hospital stay will be provided for. Also if you have some kind of health insurance they should really send free packs of first aid kits maybe one time per year or a bit less frequent. Since it is not like you need to go to the hospital if you get a small scratch, but it is still part of your health!

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Stopped reading, too long. Health care is a basic human right.
    Poppycock. It's a basic human right NOW that everyone is so touchy feely sensitive. It shouldn't be. A person should be able to choose what they do, who they interact with, and as a doctor, who they treat, without government interference. A basic human right is the right to live. Not the right to be treated for something god inflicted you with to extend your life beyond it's intentional end.

    It should go back to the old days (the centuries before modernized civilization, 1800 or so), if you don't have 3 chickens to trade for services rendered, you don't get treated. Survival of the fittest and all that.
    Apply blizzards model to any other subscription service,you'd be outraged:
    Netflix adds no new movies for a year, you click a new movie, there's a $5 fee.
    You're in an accident, click your onstar button, but there's an addition $20 fee for them to help.
    You turn on your tv only to find all you get are the infomercial channels. Every other show is pay per view.
    See how dumb that model is?

  15. #135
    Same as Canadas is ran

  16. #136
    pretty simple

    nonprofit

    with the states providing as much as possible for science to figure out new cures

    anyone who thinks getting rich off of people being ill as positive is a heartless bastard if you ask me

    now, don´t think i mean to say doctors, nurses and everyone who works in the healtcare system shouldn´t be payed propperly for their work, but private business should if it´s me be not allowed to have any foot in healthcare

    and yes this should be worldwide, i make no difference between people because of state borders, only because of their actions
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  17. #137
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Poppycock. It's a basic human right NOW that everyone is so touchy feely sensitive. It shouldn't be. A person should be able to choose what they do, who they interact with, and as a doctor, who they treat, without government interference. A basic human right is the right to live. Not the right to be treated for something god inflicted you with to extend your life beyond it's intentional end.

    It should go back to the old days (the centuries before modernized civilization, 1800 or so), if you don't have 3 chickens to trade for services rendered, you don't get treated. Survival of the fittest and all that.
    I'm really unsure if this is satirical or not.
    Is it a rule that you have to be rude and sarcastic in every conversation here?

  18. #138
    Banned Hooked's Avatar
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    I wonder if the same people that dont have medical insurance also dont have car insurance. Should we start paying for their car insurance as well?.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    I wonder if the same people that dont have medical insurance also dont have car insurance. Should we start paying for their car insurance as well?.
    I don't have to go without medical treatment if I don't have car insurance. But you know that, you're just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  20. #140
    Legendary! Sorrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzy View Post
    Poppycock. It's a basic human right NOW that everyone is so touchy feely sensitive. It shouldn't be. A person should be able to choose what they do, who they interact with, and as a doctor, who they treat, without government interference. A basic human right is the right to live. Not the right to be treated for something god inflicted you with to extend your life beyond it's intentional end.

    It should go back to the old days (the centuries before modernized civilization, 1800 or so), if you don't have 3 chickens to trade for services rendered, you don't get treated. Survival of the fittest and all that.
    If serious...Ok sure lets also go back to shorter lifespans no girls in school girls expected to get married AND knocked up by their first or second period no modern foods(so at least we'd be at 12-13 for said girls instead of 8 or 9) oh and of course no airlines...

    These things come as a package deal.

    Also we had currency back then it wasn't just bartering....

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