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  1. #161
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bach0r View Post
    damn, youre a hard crusader

    but even if its an issue(but those blue post might also mean that it was an issue for classic WoW where playable races should have decent numbers), the number can be easly increased by for example doing some rebellion in Silvermoon(more exiles). It was already slightly increased by adding outland forces so it can still be increased to required population(even easier since Blizzard stopped posting random numbers) . And it might be even easier than bringing Arakkoa or Vyrkuls(or other brand new race) to Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms and joining Horde or Alliance.

    Ive never said that making HE playable shouldnt be caused by any events and should happen in exact situation as it is now in WoW.
    and I've never pointed that Gnomes, Taurens or Trolls are an issue. I only pointed Pandas who are individuals.

    I dont ignore blue post I just say that this blue post isnt an unforcenable barrier for Blizzard and High Elves. And I dont know a blue post that says that High Elves wont be playable in the future or they dont plan to do anything with High Elves in Alliance or they all will die.

    so saying thats totally impossible only because there is one blue post isnt rly strong argument.
    When the blue post is the only official word on the matter, you just gotta deal with it until another blue contradicts it or retcons it.

    This has not happened, so it still counts.

    As for your ideas about where to scrounge up extra High Elves.

    The Silvermoon Rebellion: No. There is no issue threatening to divide the blood elves at present, and even if they did divide the 'new rebels' would have little incentive or cause to join the High Elves considering they've been happily Horde for the past seven years.

    Outland Forces: A literal drop in the ocean. At most a hundred or two hundred individual High Elves would have come back. And where is the rule saying all of them went right back to the Alliance? It's conceivable a substantial chunk of the Elves would have converted to being Blood Elves once they realised that it was that or never set foot in Silvermoon again. Besides, how did the Elves in Outland cope with the addiction if not by consuming magic whereever they could. Like the Blood Elves did.

    Even if every living High Elf gathered in one spot under one banner you'd still have only a few hundred individuals not strong enough to take control of their own destiny but reliant on patronage of a real power to protect them, such as Dalaran.

    I'm obviously biased, but the evidence in favour of the anti-High Elf argument is clearly stronger both qualitatively and quantitively. If Blizzard ever do add High Elves as a playable race they are going to need a major ass pull to justify it.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    When the blue post is the only official word on the matter, you just gotta deal with it until another blue contradicts it or retcons it.

    This has not happened, so it still counts.

    As for your ideas about where to scrounge up extra High Elves.

    The Silvermoon Rebellion: No. There is no issue threatening to divide the blood elves at present, and even if they did divide the 'new rebels' would have little incentive or cause to join the High Elves considering they've been happily Horde for the past seven years.

    Outland Forces: A literal drop in the ocean. At most a hundred or two hundred individual High Elves would have come back. And where is the rule saying all of them went right back to the Alliance? It's conceivable a substantial chunk of the Elves would have converted to being Blood Elves once they realised that it was that or never set foot in Silvermoon again. Besides, how did the Elves in Outland cope with the addiction if not by consuming magic whereever they could. Like the Blood Elves did.

    Even if every living High Elf gathered in one spot under one banner you'd still have only a few hundred individuals not strong enough to take control of their own destiny but reliant on patronage of a real power to protect them, such as Dalaran.

    I'm obviously biased, but the evidence in favour of the anti-High Elf argument is clearly stronger both qualitatively and quantitively. If Blizzard ever do add High Elves as a playable race they are going to need a major ass pull to justify it.
    Both your points are petty moot.

    Blizzard will pull numbers out of their bum. Thats why they don't say how many people each race has as they may need to change it at the drop of the hat.

  3. #163
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    How can you say it's a moot point when it's a statement they've stuck to for going on ten years?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Both your points are petty moot.

    Blizzard will pull numbers out of their bum. Thats why they don't say how many people each race has as they may need to change it at the drop of the hat.
    But to date, on this issue, they haven't. It's valid until it isn't valid, and it's up to the pros on this issue to argue against it, not for me to justify it.

    You don't get to say it doesn't matter because you don't like it. That's you telling me you've no answer beyond 'Blizzard changed it's mind but hasn't told us yet'. Pure bunk.

  5. #165
    In fairness, there is at least a partial schism in Sin'dorei society -- Liadrin's new preaching the Light, inspired by Velen and M'uru and the new Sunwell, vs. the people who were pretty comfortable with the want/take/have model of magical power, including fel energy. It's touched on in the new character-creation fly-in.

    Not sure how that produces a bunch of "high elf" break-offs, though, since their issue is not that issue. Plus, since plot wise it is clearly Sin'dorei -- green eyes, happy to pop off an arcane torrent, Blood Eles -- who would be the ones filling out the Alliance-playable ranks, there would probably still be a bunch of pointless butthurt and anger over the implementation. I mean, only Northem is Northem, but the "high elves must have blue eyes and poop rainbows" condition does exist in a lot of the requests for playable "high elves".

    The only lore-sensible or game-mechanically reasonable way to get Alliance access to Thalassian elves is neutral Sin'dorei, but in practice I think that wouldn't be "good enough" and would set off a whole new round of complaints even while it became the second most popular Alliance race.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    But to date, on this issue, they haven't. It's valid until it isn't valid, and it's up to the pros on this issue to argue against it, not for me to justify it.

    You don't get to say it doesn't matter because you don't like it. That's you telling me you've no answer beyond 'Blizzard changed it's mind but hasn't told us yet'. Pure bunk.
    What are you on about? Please explain. As I said blizzard will simply pull numbers out of their arses as far as gameplay is concerned (game play over story is their mantra) If x race is in a war they will just put troops down to show them in it. Thats why a lot of the RPG stuff is non canon now as it stated how many people were in x or y race. Blizzard simply doesn't say how many are there and would use a vague term to describe their numbers instead.

    It doesnt matter as it does not matter nothing to do with whether I like it or not as I am not fussed.

    *edit* I see what you're getting at and you're wrong. The blood elves were down to 10% population but yet can field a large army in TBC (both against the players and for the horde).

    Dark spears being a small tribe but yet are able to take over razor hill and lay siege to the front of Org? blizzard does it all the time they just place troops in and around or characters around as they see fit. Happens a lot. They don't state exact numbers for this reason.
    Last edited by khalltusk; 2013-10-01 at 02:53 PM.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    What are you on about? Please explain. As I said blizzard will simply pull numbers out of their arses as far as gameplay is concerned (game play over story is their mantra) If x race is in a war they will just put troops down to show them in it. Thats why a lot of the RPG stuff is non canon now as it stated how many people were in x or y race. Blizzard simply doesn't say how many are there and would use a vague term to describe their numbers instead.

    It doesnt matter as it does not matter nothing to do with whether I like it or not as I am not fussed.

    *edit* I see what you're getting at and you're wrong. The blood elves were down to 10% population but yet can field a large army in TBC (both against the players and for the horde).

    Dark spears being a small tribe but yet are able to take over razor hill and lay siege to the front of Org? blizzard does it all the time they just place troops in and around or characters around as they see fit. Happens a lot. They don't state exact numbers for this reason.
    The populations are all relative. if you think the Darkspears are tiny, then the High Elves are an order of magnitude smaller still. We don't have exact official numbers, but they are irreelvant. Whatever the numbers are, relative to the other races, the High Elves are a vanishingly small percentage even when compared to other endangered races.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    The populations are all relative. if you think the Darkspears are tiny, then the High Elves are an order of magnitude smaller still. We don't have exact official numbers, but they are irreelvant. Whatever the numbers are, relative to the other races, the High Elves are a vanishingly small percentage even when compared to other endangered races.
    That I can agree on but it does not matter. Should something come along blizzard would do a retcon or something similar. It was my point and thus why it does not matter which race is the smallet as blizzard can make changes at a drop of the hat.

    Just look at the drenai, retconned into the game in their current state.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    When the blue post is the only official word on the matter, you just gotta deal with it until another blue contradicts it or retcons it.

    This has not happened, so it still counts.
    as I said it doesn't mean that population of High Elves is unable to increase to required number. And still there's no blue post that says thats impossible for High Elves to became playable? The only statement was that they cant became playable in vanilla because there was to less of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    As for your ideas about where to scrounge up extra High Elves. in that or other way.

    The Silvermoon Rebellion: No. There is no issue threatening to divide the blood elves at present, and even if they did divide the 'new rebels' would have little incentive or cause to join the High Elves considering they've been happily Horde for the past seven years.


    Outland Forces: A literal drop in the ocean. At most a hundred or two hundred individual High Elves would have come back. And where is the rule saying all of them went right back to the Alliance? It's conceivable a substantial chunk of the Elves would have converted to being Blood Elves once they realised that it was that or never set foot in Silvermoon again. Besides, how did the Elves in Outland cope with the addiction if not by consuming magic whereever they could. Like the Blood Elves did.

    Even if every living High Elf gathered in one spot under one banner you'd still have only a few hundred individuals not strong enough to take control of their own destiny but reliant on patronage of a real power to protect them, such as Dalaran.

    I'm obviously biased, but the evidence in favour of the anti-High Elf argument is clearly stronger both qualitatively and quantitively. If Blizzard ever do add High Elves as a playable race they are going to need a major ass pull to justify it.
    ofc because there are or will be more argument for new brand non-classic race to became playable and join one of the faction, pls.
    Sure it is more possible for Arakkoa to move to Azeroth and join one of the factions than Silvermoon Rebellion. or Vyrkuls leaving Northrend and landing for fun in Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms building capital there and deciding to join Horde or Alliance than Slivermoon exiles joining High Elves in Alliance. pls...

    In my opinion High Elves in Alliance is as possible as any other random non-classic brand new race to join them.

  10. #170
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    sub races seem like a stupid idea. you can customise to look like a dark iron anyway. Brand new race would be much better than a subrace

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by bach0r View Post
    In my opinion High Elves in Alliance is as possible as any other random non-classic brand new race to join them.
    Respectfully, you are wrong. There is a mountain to climb to justify High Elves being added, a mountain no other potential race will face. Just look through all the threads tackling this subject and the points endlessly and tirelessly raised pointing out why they are a bad idea. Would a Vrykul thread get this much blowback? Or an Arrakoa? Or an Ethereal?

    Every factor counts against them in some way. Even ennui on the part of the developers who may feel want to do something new and exciting rather than more elves, something as simple and as basic that mitigates agains them being added in.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Respectfully, you are wrong. There is a mountain to climb to justify High Elves being added, a mountain no other potential race will face. Just look through all the threads tackling this subject and the points endlessly and tirelessly raised pointing out why they are a bad idea. Would a Vrykul thread get this much blowback? Or an Arrakoa? Or an Ethereal?

    Every factor counts against them in some way. Even ennui on the part of the developers who may feel want to do something new and exciting rather than more elves, something as simple and as basic that mitigates agains them being added in.
    but on the other hand theres another mountain that HE climbs easy(even faster than Gnomes) why potential brand new race like Vyrkul or Arrakoa need to face. how to make tham part of WoW.
    there was also a lot of threads that Pandas would be stupid idea even before MoP. And loads of threads where ppl whined that Draenei are useless and loreless and its hard to identify with race that is barely nowhere in the world and is ignored in every expansion.

    or whine about Pandas? that the easter egg of Warcraft Universe became playable race. Theres always a lot of whine when non-classic races became playable.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by bach0r View Post
    but on the other hand theres another mountain that HE climbs easy(even faster than Gnomes) why potential brand new race like Vyrkul or Arrakoa need to face. how to make tham part of WoW.
    there was also a lot of threads that Pandas would be stupid idea even before MoP. And loads of threads where ppl whined that Draenei are useless and loreless and its hard to identify with race that is barely nowhere in the world and is ignored in every expansion.

    or whine about Pandas? that the easter egg of Warcraft Universe became playable race. Theres always a lot of whine when non-classic races became playable.
    The only 'classic' race not playable is the Ogres. The High Elves were added back in 2007 as the Blood Elves. The few stragglers left behind still clinging to the moniker 'High Elf' do not need, do not require and do not deserve to be playable by themselves.

    As for the pandas, from that one seed of an easter egg came forth an entire expansion. The Hozen, the Jinyu, the Grummles and the Mogu. the Serpent Spine, the vale of eternal blossoms, cloud serpents and old god y'shaarj. That's the value the Pandas added.

    What would the High Elves give that the Blood Elves have not already provided.

    Nothing.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2013-10-01 at 03:40 PM.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    Respectfully, you are wrong. There is a mountain to climb to justify High Elves being added, a mountain no other potential race will face. Just look through all the threads tackling this subject and the points endlessly and tirelessly raised pointing out why they are a bad idea. Would a Vrykul thread get this much blowback? Or an Arrakoa? Or an Ethereal?

    Every factor counts against them in some way. Even ennui on the part of the developers who may feel want to do something new and exciting rather than more elves, something as simple and as basic that mitigates agains them being added in.
    Lorewise and gameplay wise the High elves could work, BUT why should a new race be set for high elves its just a re-skin of blood elves. Its a boring choice imo. We could easily get a different more interesting new race. As a sub faction that you can choose when making a nightelf/human then yeh I could see that working but you'd then have to add in other sub factions you could add in to balance it out (taunka for example)

  15. #175
    Alliance Tuskar, Horde buffalo men. Problem solved, works for me.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    Alliance Tuskar, Horde buffalo men. Problem solved, works for me.
    That won't work, Blizzard will have to dedicate their artists to building two new race models and those take months. They are always screaming about how their artists are pressured.

  17. #177
    Personally, I feel that we have enough elves. I'm not opposed to other races, but hopefully no more elves haha.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    The only 'classic' race not playable is the Ogres.
    ogres and furbolg. by the term of "classic races" I mean races we know from Warcraft.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    The High Elves were added back in 2007 as the Blood Elves. The few stragglers left behind still clinging to the moniker 'High Elf' do not need, do not require and do not deserve to be playable by themselves.
    maybe because they got some plan about when High Elves should be added? Thats why they added Blood Elves in BC and Goblins in Cata? Because they got plan for those races to add them after or before some events in the world of warcraft?

    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    As for the pandas, from that one seed of an easter egg came forth an entire expansion. The Hozen, the Jinyu, the Grummles and the Mogu. the Serpent Spine, the vale of eternal blossoms, cloud serpents and old god y'shaarj. That's the value the Pandas added.
    I'd rather say that Pandas and things u pointed was a value added by Pandaria. Not Pandas who added this value.

    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    What would the High Elves give that the Blood Elves have not already provided.

    Nothing.

    ok, so what value did Goblins or Worgen? only a playable model + starting zones + a little bit lore.
    High Elves might add starting zone + cool lore + Alleria and Turalyon and their troops + the realms they explored + enemies they found + much bigger role in WoW lore
    so barely everything that Pandas gave us instead of playable model.
    Last edited by mmoc9f96497ef5; 2013-10-01 at 04:59 PM.

  19. #179
    The high elves have been all but wiped out, until Blizzard says otherwise.

    They're probably not going to say otherwise.

    I also don't see the point of what would essentially boil down to "give blood elves to the Alliance". Pre-existing races, but with reskins, simply don't hold any interest for me, regardless of whether they functioned as additional choices on the character select screen or as "new" playable factions.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by rumaya2000 View Post
    All your posts
    I swear you're arguing just to argue. ONE blue post that is severely outdated isn't the "end all be all" of High elves as a playable race. It's very vague, it's very insignificant in terms of population. We play Goblins that get off one tiny boat; we play Worgen when not all Gilnean humans are even Worgen; the largest population (of in-game player Horde) is the Blood elves, and even they have small numbers lore-wise; we play Pandas from ONE school. Seriously, it doesn't matter. For all we know, the idea behind playable High elves, or even playable sub-races has changed in opinion among the devs.

    About sub-races, again, High elves or any other race as a sub-race/faction isn't supposed to be unique. No such thing as copy/paste models? We saw that for the High elf NPCs all over the place being blood elves with blue eyes. Clearly, Blizz has copy/pasted models before, and for the sake of playable sub-races that don't need any real backstory besides logical common sense (I'm talking about logical playable sub-races here), they could do it as skins purchasable through the store.

    As for the idea of skins being purchasable on the store, you make it seem like Blizz wouldn't do it because you obviously don't find it appealing. However, again, I know many people who would race change just to be a certain skin of a race, and Blizz could make a lot of money (which we all know is in Blizzard's best intentions). It doesn't matter if you don't like the idea, it matters if Blizzard could make a lot of money off of a product, which they could.

    Alleria and Veressa are two different people. Again, you're just using your opinion against the topic. Alleria is an Alliance HERO while also being a High elf. As we all know, High elves has been screamed at to the devs for a long time, so anything could happen for them; we never know. I'm not saying that her return can introduce playable High elves, it's just an idea/speculation.

    I never said feeding on animals. I said absorbing mana from animals as a source for magic (mana tapping), while also absorbing the fel-ambient energy in the air. And even though the Sunwell has been restored, High elves still need to take pilgrimages to feel the magic it produces.

    There aren't any mountains to climb when considering sub-races. It's a copy and paste of models, with edited text when dealing with what sub-race you are, and even then, they wouldn't have to add that and I'd be happy.

    Something High elves would give that the Blood elves do not is the classic High elven race on the Alliance side.

    Again, you can't even seem to compromise, even with me trying to change the original idea by so much. Why can't skins just be put onto the market? It seriously isn't as big of a deal as you make it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    No reason that the "high elves" would be any closer to druidism than the Sin'dorei. They aren't closer to nature because they chose to use magical artifacts as their Sunwell replacement instead of mana wyrms and the like, nor did they take all the rangers with them; the Farstriders are the most likely lore candidates for Sin'dorei who'd want to return to nature magic, and they are by and large still in Quel'thalas.
    The Blood elves do practice druidism, but most can't transform into animals. Only one has been seen so far in-game. As for High elves, there is evidence in the Warcraft 2 manual for High elves Druids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    the only way i see getting some real customization within existing races is to add sub races, so for example the elven races could choose to resemble a high elf. the Orcs could choose to be more visually of the Dragonmaw clan, trolls could be more Zandalari etc.

    This sort of customisation would allow blizzard to give more flavor to the character customization selection without going over the top with new racial abilities.
    I agree. However, these racials would need to make sense for the sub-races as well. For example, High elven racials probably would be closer to human racials than the Night elven racials, so the High elves would probably be a sub-race/sub-faction for the humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus345 View Post
    The high elves have been all but wiped out, until Blizzard says otherwise.

    They're probably not going to say otherwise.

    I also don't see the point of what would essentially boil down to "give blood elves to the Alliance". Pre-existing races, but with reskins, simply don't hold any interest for me, regardless of whether they functioned as additional choices on the character select screen or as "new" playable factions.
    Again, that's why there is the idea of holding these skins on the online store for those that do want them. People who don't want them won't have to get them.

    Of course, these skins would have to go over certain races (i.e. High elves on humans, Mag'har on Orcs, etc.) instead of just being skinned over any race available.
    Last edited by cmats4020; 2013-10-02 at 02:32 AM.

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