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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    SoO have quite alot of "complex" fights early on which requires a brain. We've seen such fights before, but there were not many in ToT tbh. most of the ones were quite late, like Durumu, animus and Lei shen, now we see these types of fight in the first half.
    Twins and iron qon say hi

    If anything I'd say the first half of SoO is WAAAAY easier than first half of ToT was at release

  2. #22
    stop doing lfr. waste of time and people are utter shit

  3. #23
    yeah, it will settle.

    LFR normally works because of it is a mix of experienced over geared players, experienced players on alts, return players and new raiders. The higher ilvl and experienced carry the people scraping in, plus over time everyone over-gears the rough mechanics anyway.

    Right now though, the experienced and the well geared are in SoO, where not much is known and people are learning. This makes it wipe heavy. Everyone is on their mains, so no experienced alts in the lower queues, and no one is farming valor so that is wipe heavy too. Every queue has a higher proportion of people scraping the ilvl needed, rather then well overgearing (which is the usual).

    Give it a few more weeks and everything will normalise. Once the experienced raiders settle onto alt runs, less skilled players get their ilvl high enough to push past harder mechanics and the strats are well known.

  4. #24
    I think the main problem is 5.4 back into the fold (myself included). The reputation of LFR right now is you can go in and ignore all the mechanics and mash your keyboard which isn't the case at all. The 5.0 raids you might be able to get away with it but the TOT and SOO you can't do that at all.

    However, on the other side of things I'm someone who can watch videos and strats til I'm blue in the face but I need to go through an encounter a couple of times to get a handle on it. I haven't wiped the raid yet but I've made a few mistakes.

  5. #25
    High Overlord joruu's Avatar
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    I can only speak for me and the guild Im in. Outside our raidteam our members are a mix in the term of quality. No-one is really a LFR afker but ther are some lower performers for sure. However, since 5.4 95% of our "non-raiders" and 99.5% of our raiders haven't set foot in LFR due to Flex and Normal. Most are really relived by the option of FLEX opening up and atleast say that they are glad to never have to go into LFR to gear or have fun on a main or alt. I don't think this will "stabilize" and suddenly our guildies will be running LFR more due to some strange reason. A few maybe but most will enjoy the FLEX more since it filled the void between Normal/Heroics and LFR-

    Ofc, you could argue that "Yea but you have a Guild, etc, etc" Im pretty sure that our guild isn't that special in that regards. Id say that LFR lost about 30 decent people (judging from our FLEX raid + raidgroup (raidgroup shunned LFR since they finished the legendary "collect x" quests) from our guild alone, and maybe 5 of them will go back to LFR within a month or two.

  6. #26
    What I see on most of the posts here is "give it a few weeks, wait till the heroic raiders and badass people come back to lfr, then it will be better"

    Ummm, anyone else see where the real problem is...
    27" Imac - Intel i7-3.5 GHz - Nvidia GTX 780 - 16GB DDR3 1600MHz - 512GB SSD - Dual Boot w/OS X Mavericks & Windows 8.1

    "You are what your life says you are, nothing more, nothing less"


  7. #27
    I spent a good hour on Nazgrim last night until the raid dispersed (with 5 stacks of Determination). We didn't even get him below 50% on any go. A guildie spent over 2 hours on Nazgrim in a raid that had been on him for 4 hours... gotta ask him today if they got him down, I think he was still at it when I went to sleep.

    Soo yeah. Nazgrim seems Garalon 2.0 and then some. Also the Dark Shamans seem fairly rough; not only will standing in shit kill you within a couple seconds, so will dodging it into a shit tornado. Not that I have a problem with that, but it's fairly punishing for LFR standards.

  8. #28
    Those that ever set foot in non LFR ToT have few reasons to run LFR and there's flex for gearing alts, i think it will get better once your average LFR gets used to the tactics but not by much unless the raiders and more skilled players return from flex that offers better rewards.

  9. #29
    Our raid group finished ToT with a couple of heroics under our belt, so we ought to be the ones carrying LFR runs.

    Thing is, not a blessed thing will drop in LFR that's an upgrade for me except tier pieces. And if I want practice on the mechanics, I can go play in flex. So I've been flexing with my spare time instead of LFRing. It's pretty much the same with all of our raid group. We have the item level to get into any flex pug, where there are likely to be people who are willing to log on to vent to coordinate fights and who understand how it makes raiding more pleasant. And in flex I've found that people won't ninja quit after the first wipe. Why should we put up with LFR?

    I really ought to hit up LFR. Tier bonuses, the OP trinkets, there are things that would be upgrades for me. But the reward is so minimal and the hassle factor is so high that I find myself going on my newly geared alts instead. I'm so glad to have time to gear up my alt. And I'm tired of carrying LFR.

    Heck, my severely undergeared alt was pulling the second or third best dps in the LFRs I hit yesterday and that's in a spec I know I'm playing suboptimally. Folks really need to step up their game.

  10. #30
    Some of you guys have serious short-term memory issues.

    You think this stuff started with Siege LFR, or with Flex? Lolno.

    Cataclysm's DS LFR was full of people who AFK'd, died on purpose, groups who had double tank bails (thus crippling or outright ending the group), people who either didn't know their class or were making no effort (or both) trolls who pulled the boss and dropped, ret paladins who queued as heals, runs where tanks were top dps, etc etc etc. Back in Cata on alts I saw groups wipe on the very first guy (Morchok), tanks who just didn't understand Ultraxion, people who didn't single target the tentacles toward the end of Madness and wiped over and over. And pretty much every other 'facepalm' worthy wipe you can think of.

    Oh and don't forget the constant 'HEY CAN I HAVE THAT PLZ I NEED IT SO MUCH MORE THAN U DO' pretty much any time you win anything, oh and healers/dps needing and winning tank weapons, tanks needing 2Hs, etc etc.

    All of that (minus the loot issues, Personal Loot fixed that crap) is why I made it a point to avoid LFR like the plague this expansion, aside from when I want a mog set/piece of gear.

    All Flex raiding has done is give some of you a new scapegoat to blame. If you think this shit didn't happen before now, you're delusional.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2013-09-30 at 12:38 PM.

  11. #31
    Yes we needed another thread for this.

    No, it's not worse than usual, you just have a bad memory.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Some of you guys have serious short-term memory issues.
    Some? Most of the people do on this forum.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by xfreeder View Post
    Free 496er gear boosted many people in lfrs they shouldn't have acess to. Stop the presses.
    ^ This is it in a nutshell, that is of course ontop of the usual slackers and generally the main raiders now running flex for the most part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Trix View Post
    Yes we needed another thread for this.

    No, it's not worse than usual, you just have a bad memory.
    Except Garalon was worse than usual. Lei Shen was worse than usual. So far Nazgrim seems almost as bad as those. So yeah, while the current situation isn't exactly new or unique, it is worse than USUAL.

    It's wholly asinine to claim that no part of LFR ever is notably problematic and they're basically all just as bad at first.

  14. #34
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    LFR is a horrible gaming experience. The longer it's been around the more and more frustrated people have become with it. For me personally I've ran it less and less since it's first implementation in DS. Just raid (or even do flex) and you'll have the gear and never have any logical reason to join that cluster fuck of a mess.

    Thankfully with 5.4 there's much easier ways to gear up and get VP that you can pretty much avoid LFR all together.

  15. #35
    Epic! Myz's Avatar
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    I have personally found the quality of LFR to be worse than during ToT, even during the first week. Durumu in the first few LFR resets was fairly horrid, but Norushen has been horrible beyond that. As a 512 Resto Druid I'm pulling a steady 140k HPS on that fight and it's still nowhere near enough with tanks not picking up big adds that then proceed to maul the healers in 2 swings, DPS being just way too low to make it before Healers inevitably run dry, people spreading out and trying their hardest not to stand in Efflo/Healing Rain, etc. I've seen 10+ buffs several times upon joining halfway through a Norushen faiLFR.

  16. #36
    Not only is it a new raid with new bosses that the LFR crowd don't yet know, we are also at the stage where most of the players are still relatively undergeared. Give it a month and people will know what to do a bit better and they will be 10+ ilvls higher. Things will get better.

  17. #37
    The real concern is that ToT has become a huge problem as well. My only thought is that it's full of Timeless Alts because I can't imagine what else is causing headaches that had been eliminated months ago

  18. #38
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Its not so much about bad players, I don't really give a damn if people are doing bad dps, I believe that LFR is pretty much designed to take this into account.

    My opinion is that there is so much hate for LFR being stoked among certain groups that it results in players who have so much disdain for LFR that when they run it they troll the group and make completing the run difficult.
    I agree with these statements. LFR is painful sometimes, but if we're generally making steady progress, then I don't get all bent out of shape. If I do get frustrated to the point where I want to punch babies, then I just leave.

    As for the trolls, or maybe people who just like to complain... I see those all the time and just ignore them. The rest of the raid usually puts them in their place. Last night someone thought it was his duty to call out another player who had low dps, yet we had not wiped up to that point. Everyone else was able to shut that guy down. It was satisfying.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    The real concern is that ToT has become a huge problem as well. My only thought is that it's full of Timeless Alts because I can't imagine what else is causing headaches that had been eliminated months ago
    3 weeks before patch, I leveled a DK and a Pally and ran them through the usual LFRs. MSV\TOES\HOF are almost like Heroic dungeons now. But ToT was still rough. Still had plenty of folks dying on Maze phase on dumuru, which is kinda amazing to me. And still took around 3 wipes to get through Lei Shen. I ran ToT again last week and it didn't seem noticably worse, outside of more people just seem to afk\auto attack., but that's always been a hard one to measue.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    3 weeks before patch, I leveled a DK and a Pally and ran them through the usual LFRs. MSV\TOES\HOF are almost like Heroic dungeons now. But ToT was still rough. Still had plenty of folks dying on Maze phase on dumuru, which is kinda amazing to me. And still took around 3 wipes to get through Lei Shen. I ran ToT again last week and it didn't seem noticably worse, outside of more people just seem to afk\auto attack., but that's always been a hard one to measue.
    That's the thing: I'm not talking Durumu and Lei Shen; I'm talking Horridon. And I can't remember the last time Jin'Rokh lasted until the fourth pool.

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