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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    That's the thing: I'm not talking Durumu and Lei Shen; I'm talking Horridon. And I can't remember the last time Jin'Rokh lasted until the fourth.
    pool.
    You need more Horde alts, Jin'rokh has been lasting till 4 pools for a while now. Horridon has went back to the usual ignore adds and tunnel boss approach that worked so well. wipes on Ji'kun becuase the nest teams are getting their feather and then going back to platform to get their primal nurtriant buff so they can look awesome! Which proves they know how the fight works and are just cheesing it to look good.

  2. #42
    I don't think LFR is worse than usual. I think SOO LFR is a bit overtuned compared to TOT LFR.

    The only ToT fight where LFR struggled consistently was Durumu and Lei Shen initially. However SOO seems quite more unforgiving and may need a little nerfing.

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Has anyone else noticed the general quality in LFR taking a huge dump lately?


    Also tanks apparently became the dumb dumb spec to roll. I think most tanks out there think that taunt is their main tank CD to spam since most tanks I find spam taunt even if it means that they're going to take an extra tick of something and since they're bad and under geared they're going to die they still spam taunt over and over and over and over again. Even with all the threat changes lately and the dps increases to every class LFR tanks still seem to do 20-30k dps even with lots of vengeance and they can't hold threat against me auto attacking the mob. Yet they want to tank the mob so they spam taunt. The average LFR tank seems to go stand in front of a boss and not move for the rest of the fight. They'll stand in fire. They'll not dodge avoidable mechanics. They will stand there and do only God knows what except for properly tank.
    From my personal experience in LFR last week, the low quality of tank that can be found in an LFR group NEEDS to chain taunt against someone doing any kind of near optimal tank rotation or they will have the bosses taken from them sans taunt.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    I don't think LFR is worse than usual. I think SOO LFR is a bit overtuned compared to TOT LFR.

    The only ToT fight where LFR struggled consistently was Durumu and Lei Shen initially. However SOO seems quite more unforgiving and may need a little nerfing.
    SOO LFR is more heavily tuned than past LFR offerings. However having experienced it from the inside it feels like it is the more proper calibration for anything that wants to hold the title of "Raid".


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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    SOO LFR is more heavily tuned than past LFR offerings. However having experienced it from the inside it feels like it is the more proper calibration for anything that wants to hold the title of "Raid".
    Personally LFR seems a little overly tuned given the audience. Admittidly I sometimes go on cruise control and don't pay full attention to what's going on. On General Naz, I was eaten by a Ravanger in 2.1 secs. Two ticks for 230K(ish) seems really high for that setting. I know the argument is that people need to learn not to stand in bad and all that, but that level of damage for a group that is suppose to be aimed at non raiders can(and has proven to be) overwhelming.

  5. #45
    The problem I experienced that really caused lfr raids to disband, is a few wipes due to stupid reasons. (one is talking to Varian when entering part 2 by 2 ignnorant players ina row)

    What happens is the tanks leave.. the first time it takes 22 mins, to refill one tanbkspot. At the next boss both tanks leave and rather quickly most other players leave too. I tried to figure out what queuetime we got but even I did not manage to see that, I though the queue was brokenb anyways because of the abandoned lfr with 5 players in it.

    And I am not talking about playstyle/skills and gearing/dps/hps problems, that are there as usual in LFR.

  6. #46
    Pit Lord Odina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warstar View Post
    Has anyone else noticed the general quality in LFR taking a huge dump lately?.
    You atribute that to bad tanks all of a sudden? As a tank that hops in LFR from time to time I atribute it to 1 thing alone and that is being able to select a diffrent role for loot from the one you qued as. Don't get me wrogn I love it and it's why I hop in lfr BUT the negative is a dps with little to NO tanking exp will swap to tank spec, set role to there man dps or wtv spec and get a fast que. They then get ported in and the raid is ready to go only to have a dps without a clue on how to tank and 9/10 times not geared properly trying to lead the way and as such it LOOKS like a horrible tank but it's really a dps wearing a tank costume!

    I went in to SOO and I had to tell the tanks I got paired with what to do, what I expected them to do, and where to go... Galakras for instance gives me nightmares as a tank because you need to count on your co tank to blow up the tower, or hold the ground and keep the adds in order, and finally taunt properly on boss debuffs.... having a dps not use to tanking as your partner makes this HELL from a reg tank POV!

    So though it may look like a FOTM shitstorm of bad tanks you got to look at the "que as tank but get my dps loot with a fast que here I come" variable that is stomping many groups atm! Can't blame them ... insta que vs 30mins -1 hr plus que times is a no brainer.... but the 24 other peopel suffer for it!
    Last edited by Odina; 2013-09-30 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #47
    The Patient sourmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Businesstm View Post
    stop doing lfr. waste of time and people are utter shit
    With flex raiding and a good population one can simply skip LFR and get better gear .
    Leave LFR to the baddies to wipe and wipe and wipe and wipe cause they don't understand that adds need to die instead of the boss .

    Then blizzard will get the message when the LFR usage drops to a low %

  8. #48
    Epic! Forgettable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meqq View Post
    I dont even try to put in effort when I do LFR on my alt because I know 75% of the group are bads and/or afk all run.
    This is a large problem with LFR.

    "Well nobody else is doing anything, so why should I?"
    "Well everyone else just stole a chocolate bar, so I will too."

    Really? Don't stoop to their level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delti View Post
    If Forgettable knew what he was doing with his keyboard, I would totally kick his ass in dps!
    ^ My guild leader while drunk.

  9. #49
    Went in on my shaman two nights ago. 7 wipes on dark shaman (5 of those wipes at under 1mil health on the boss) and 6 wipes on nazgarim.

    Its about time they remove mechanics from LFR such as Ravagers so the idiots that inhabit LFR don't drag everyone else down and waste our time because of their incompetence.

    No one wants a challenge in LFR, they want loot. People who want challenges do Normal and Heroic mode raids, achievements are for Flex mode, free loot is for LFR and thats the way it should be. There is NO REASON whatsoever to have to spend 4 hours in LFR on TWO BOSSES to try to complete the wing.

    To say its frustrating is an understatement.
    Last edited by Theholypally; 2013-09-30 at 04:14 PM.

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  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire
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    I personally don't think that LFR will get better with time at this point in the expansion.

    What is the incentive really? It drops 528 gear that at maximum upgrade goes to 536. You could get that level "eventually" just from farming on the Timeless Isle.

    I imagine that once the final wing has been opened and Garrosh has been killed for a couple of resets then the participation in LFR is going to fall off alarmingly. I would be quite happy if they got rid of it by the start of the next expansion and this is coming from someone who used to run it exclusively.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Mokoshne's Avatar
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    i've been finding that SoO lfr has been full of trolls and idiots, pulling bosses then leaving and just being general assholes in chat.

    it's made this last week really unpleasant to be honest.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week Can a guy and a girl ever have a truly platonic friendship?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanthanum View Post
    I personally don't think that LFR will get better with time at this point in the expansion.

    What is the incentive really? It drops 528 gear that at maximum upgrade goes to 536. You could get that level "eventually" just from farming on the Timeless Isle.

    I imagine that once the final wing has been opened and Garrosh has been killed for a couple of resets then the participation in LFR is going to fall off alarmingly. I would be quite happy if they got rid of it by the start of the next expansion and this is coming from someone who used to run it exclusively.
    Trinkets,weapons,tier.

    On subject while my sample size is small it all seems to be dependent on tanks.
    When i run as my shitty dps we've just had tanks dying to mechanics and not following them, when i ran on tanks it runs a lot smoother from my perspective.
    (Granted I also can solo tank most/all of those fights so far so point is somewhat moot)

  13. #53
    Pandaren Monk Redpanda's Avatar
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    i only qued lfr once and i got nazgrim and no no tier gloves to make my 4pc...I was sad.

    i craied and said Never again, not even once
    Chaos! Madness! Like a hug for your brain!¯\(°_o)/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpheus View Post
    People doing below 200k dps? Ain't nobody got time for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    Why? Why should content be gated behind skill?
    14/14h and finally done

  14. #54
    Here's the problem. My hunter is 529 geared and I'm a pretty good (not awesome) player so I'm usually in the top 3-4 DPS in an LFR. In other words, while I'm not a heroic raider, I'm compensating for the afkers and the people who can't seem to pull more than 45k. And I'm not doing LFR again. Not because it's SO horrible, but because I can do Flex... in Openraid.

    People are missing the fact that you can now Flex across realms and use OpenRaid/OQueue. So... I can queue for LFR and wait 40 mins and then deal with a raid that wipes several times because they wont bother to learn... or I can do what a guildie did last night and Openraid Flex 1st wing, one shotting everything and being done in an hour... with the chance for 540 gear that's a real upgrade vs the 528 stuff that I don't need.

    Now, why would I ever go in LFR again? And if I dont and enough people like me don't, why will LFR get better? You might say that people will gear up and learn, but will those locks/mages/hunters doing 40-60k a ilevels of 500 *really* get much better? I doubt it.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Here's the problem. My hunter is 529 geared and I'm a pretty good (not awesome) player so I'm usually in the top 3-4 DPS in an LFR. In other words, while I'm not a heroic raider, I'm compensating for the afkers and the people who can't seem to pull more than 45k. And I'm not doing LFR again. Not because it's SO horrible, but because I can do Flex... in Openraid.

    People are missing the fact that you can now Flex across realms and use OpenRaid/OQueue. So... I can queue for LFR and wait 40 mins and then deal with a raid that wipes several times because they wont bother to learn... or I can do what a guildie did last night and Openraid Flex 1st wing, one shotting everything and being done in an hour... with the chance for 540 gear that's a real upgrade vs the 528 stuff that I don't need.

    Now, why would I ever go in LFR again? And if I dont and enough people like me don't, why will LFR get better? You might say that people will gear up and learn, but will those locks/mages/hunters doing 40-60k a ilevels of 500 *really* get much better? I doubt it.
    I raid in a guild that usually gets about half the heroic encounters down each tier. We've all quit LFR with the introduction of Flex, and none of us have any intention of going back to LFR. We speak of it with disdain, not because of the quality of player, but because of the social abyss that LFR is. I very rarely faced wipes in ToT LFR, but often did between 30-50% of the overall healing. Not having regular raiders in LFR is and will continue to be a problem.

  16. #56
    Yep. One of the nice things about Flex via OR/OQ is that a few friends and I can can get together and do it. If one of us can't make it for some reason, no worries, it's Flex. This lets me play with the people I like, not have to deal with the people who I don't really care about and it accommodates not being able to make a raid.

    one of the reasons I did LFR previously was that I could login, feel like doing something in LFR, queue and go. After the first week or so we'd one shot things and the gear was, mostly, upgrades. Now? The gear doesnt upgrade me, the queues are silly long, the encounters aren't easy enough to one shot and people leave. It's gone from being a way to spend 30-45 mins, get VP and get a shot at gear to a huge time sink with a mismatch between the player skill and the encounter.

  17. #57
    Did a four hour LFR last night while the game was on. 2 1/2 of those hours was waiting on tanks.
    Have A Nice Day (HVND)

  18. #58
    Well I think flex has taken out a lot of the normal boosting LFR got in terms of good players, they no longer need to do LFR they do flex instead so all the semi AFKers and baddies are left there, with the rare good players geared lowbie alts. So in a way flex ruined LFR.

  19. #59
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    The majority of LFR players have always been at around the point LFR is actually tuned for, giving them a suitable challenge. Keep that in mind. LFR is only /faceroll when there are normal raiders in normal gear around, and those are all in SoS LFR now. If you check your recount after a smooth LFR, there's bound to be a handful of healers and DPS who are pulling numbers that are 2-3 times higher than anyone else on every single fight. Without those people, LFR is obviously harder. It's still very much doable, but it's not going to be the facerolling experience you're used to.
    Diplomacy is just war by other means.

  20. #60
    They're going to inevitably nerf the damage in the coming weeks. I say this because of a fight like Nazgrim where, if you're a Rogue trying to kill adds (because range are slacking), most of those adds are hitting you for 75% of your HP each time. Add in 3 Ironblade'ing Warriors and an Assassin all doing 100k-300k per primary attack and it's a recipe for a Determination-stacking nightmare.

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