1. #1

    [Resto] - Dream of Cenarius on Protectors Heroic

    hi guys.

    I've killed Protectors hc with my guild the other day, not after wiping 10 times due to insufficient dps. we kept wiping at 3% or so.
    I ended up going Heart of the Wild and dpsing at start + last phase. we were still 10 sec from berserk.

    my question is: have any1 tried going Dream of Cenarius for more dps gain? will my heals be enough to hold the raid (3 healing)?
    in another aspect: with HotW I did 12million dmg. how much can I pull with DoS?

    have any1 tried this?

    thanks.
    Last edited by Trolloid; 2013-09-29 at 01:32 PM.

  2. #2
    DoC is much better.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiin View Post
    DoC is much better.
    talking from experience?

  4. #4
    Personally I would suggest Nature's Vigil. As long as you use it aggressively (that is, almost on cd and spamming heals throughout the duration) you'll find that it does a large amount of damage, comparable to DoC even. There was some math posted on EJ about this, so try having a look over there if you're interested.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by psum View Post
    Personally I would suggest Nature's Vigil. As long as you use it aggressively (that is, almost on cd and spamming heals throughout the duration) you'll find that it does a large amount of damage, comparable to DoC even. There was some math posted on EJ about this, so try having a look over there if you're interested.
    I do use NV that way. sadly I haven't checked my dmg done with tries using NV so I can't compare the dmg from it.

  6. #6
    Just playing around with DoC in flex raids my DPS has been in the ballpark of 50k with around 80k HPS (a large % of which is Lifebloom/Efflorescence). It is a definite trade off to run DoC. This is mostly because you're replacing Rejuvs with Wraths

    You have to cast Wrath around 40% of a fight for DoC to just do more overall DPS than Nature's Vigil -- and that says nothing of the healing and mana you lose.

    You still lose healing with HotW, particularly if you're using HotW to DPS, but your gains while Wrath-ing are significantly more. Wrath damage increase by about 200% when you pop HotW which puts DoC's break-even point with HotW in that same 40% range for DPS. The ability to also throw out super-powered Moonfires while still getting some buff to your baseline healing/damage probably makes it a winner in this specific scenario.

    If you have excess time/mana, as thinking about DoC would suggest to me, I think you're best off putting those GCDs into maintaining Moonfires on the Protectors whenever you can. It should be higher DPCT and DPM than DoC-Wrath and less of an overall commitment to doing low HPS since you can switch in and out of it with ease.

  7. #7
    If you have a Disc priest you're better off just letting them Attonement heal than to have you switch to DoC Wrath spam.

  8. #8
    What everyone that's answered you so far has failed to mention is whether they are talking about a 3043 haste or 13163 haste build, because that has a HUGE impact on DoC. At 13163, with nothing but Efllo down and spamming Wrath, NV can come no where fucking close to the damage I put out with DoC.

  9. #9
    Damage wise it might be okay. If your raid dps really sucks and you need more dps, and your other healer(s) got the heals and no one is dying. It could be a viable situation. But if your dps is low in the first place you would be better off using less healers that are really good using proper talents such as NV in this case and getting a harder hitting dps in.

    Just from pure HPS and raw healing i can't see DoC being anything close to a proper resto druid rotation and with NV.

    That being said do what you want ^^

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Trolloid View Post
    hi guys.

    I've killed Protectors hc with my guild the other day, not after wiping 10 times due to insufficient dps. we kept wiping at 3% or so.
    I ended up going Heart of the Wild and dpsing at start + last phase. we were still 10 sec from berserk.

    my question is: have any1 tried going Dream of Cenarius for more dps gain? will my heals be enough to hold the raid (3 healing)?
    in another aspect: with HotW I did 12million dmg. how much can I pull with DoS?

    have any1 tried this?

    thanks.

    Yesterday I tried Doc on 25 HM nazgrim prog because the heal req is relativity low. In 558 ilvl with 13k haste I was doing maybe 35k dps tops, because in all reality you cannot just spam wrath with eflo down you have to throw out rejuvs and refresh LB. The reduction in my over all healing was huge ( around 40% less ) and only for a 35k dps gain. I really doubt 35k is going be the difference in a kill in any situation

    With HM protectors make sure you group them at the start and lust aoeing off all of them. You get way more dps than using at the end, you just need to be careful not to push them over when you don't want to.

  11. #11
    As above has stated. You give up far too much healing wise for something that's a - healing loss and a dps gain of about 20k~.

  12. #12
    From what I've seen with DoC, mainly using it in Flex where healing isn't really required, it can do a lot of damage if you are allowed to just cast it all fight. I wasn't even using Lifebloom, I was just putting down Efflo and spamming Wrath the entire fight. Was doing about 50k or so on most fights (running the 3k haste breakpoint) and about 80k HPS. It was rather underwhelming, and I wouldn't bother with it in normals/heroics again until I switch to 13k haste. However, I will say on Norushen I was doing 85k DPS and 110k HPS, because of the damage increase (I went down first and ate no puddles).

    The problem is, in normals/heroics, you can't just mash Wrath. You can try, and with 3 healers maybe (I 2 heal everything) and it's just... You can't, things die. Wrath simply doesn't hit hard enough. In my opinion to make DoC at all viable they need to make Wrath do about 25% more damage and also make it heal off Moonfire ticks. Obviously that wouldn't be much, but it'd be an extra 10k (more if multiple targets, like Protectors) every couple seconds. That on top of Wrath spam might be viable to actually help heal a lot. But just Wrath doing the minuscule amount of damage it does isn't enough.

    I'd stick with HotW and going HAM during Lust with it, or NV and popping it on CD while spam healing for damage. HotW is probably a bit better on Protectors because you can better choose what takes damage, which is a plus.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    What everyone that's answered you so far has failed to mention is whether they are talking about a 3043 haste or 13163 haste build, because that has a HUGE impact on DoC. At 13163, with nothing but Efllo down and spamming Wrath, NV can come no where fucking close to the damage I put out with DoC.
    I got low gear (538 ilvl) and therefore im still at 3043 haste.
    I just tried protectors lfr just to see how it works: I did 75.8mil healing done and 13mil dmg done with DoS, compared to 12mil dmg done that I did on hc (cant compare healing done from hc) using HotW.
    I think it's pretty obvious then. (with 3043 haste) its not worth using DoS for most fights.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Trolloid View Post
    I got low gear (538 ilvl) and therefore im still at 3043 haste.
    I just tried protectors lfr just to see how it works: I did 75.8mil healing done and 13mil dmg done with DoS, compared to 12mil dmg done that I did on hc (cant compare healing done from hc) using HotW.
    I think it's pretty obvious then. (with 3043 haste) its not worth using DoS for most fights.
    I'd have to dig through some logs or wait for some new ones to let you know exactly what my numbers looked like, but at a 556 ilvl and the 13,163 BP, I was doing around 100khps and around 80-90kdps. That's full raid buffed, int food/flask, lust, and even prepotting and repotting int during the fight. Don't take those numbers on faith though, I'll come back and either update this comment or if it's buried I'll make a new one with some logs to link to show some actual data.

  15. #15
    I thought this was a moonkin thread asking whether you should take NV for the extra healing vs doc damage. My mistake

  16. #16
    I don't think DoC is good enough to even help a guild during progression. If you are 3 healing with a druid casting DoC, you might as well put a disc priest there or try to 2 heal the fight.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeons View Post
    I don't think DoC is good enough to even help a guild during progression. If you are 3 healing with a druid casting DoC, you might as well put a disc priest there or try to 2 heal the fight.
    Well, it just differs so much on comp. Remember, not every guild has a dpriest, and there are some fights that while 2 healable the majority of the fight, simply do so much damage in a progression environment in certain phases that it calls for 3 healers, or at least enough CDs from having 3 healers. So it'd be possible to be a switch, do as much damage as possible, and then wait until you're actually needed, blow CDs and do high throughput (i.e. a lot of RJ) for the time you're needed, then jump back to damage the second the other 2 healers can manage again.

    I have a friend that raids warlock, and this is what they did for one of their progression kills in 10 man, I forgot which one. I'll go ask him and update later, maybe with some logs if I can.

  18. #18
    DoC works as the third healer, not as the second. disc priests do it better, but often don't have access to them.

    FYI: DoC doesn't benefit from mastery, so a lot of tree druids that have high mastery it doesn't work for. it works VERY well for boomkins filling that third healer roll that don't have a full set of offset gear. in that case, u are spamming wrath the vast majority of the fight. keep LB up on the tanks for extra heal + OOC procs, between LB, eeorf, and DoC, you will do ~80-90k hps + ~80k dps.
    In order to have DoC work well, u need near no mastery, low spirit (look at how much mana wrath takes to cast*cast time, figure u need just a bit less than that as mana procs+innervate+mtt+hyms+manatrinkets ect - rest of stats go into haste+crit.

    in short:
    it is VERY viable as a "do we need a third healer or not" option, but not so much for 2 healing fights. or as the third healer for fights that need it and you just have a boomkin.

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