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  1. #21
    Then again you can buy both now :P and try for yourself....7k will give you Heal or DPS (which ever you will choose and need later)

  2. #22
    Thanks for all of the replies, will nab the dps one initially, might pick up the healing one for holy later or something.
    3DS Friend Code: 2165 - 5428 - 1895

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    5% healing on a 20% uptime (which is incredibly high, I might add, considering even the best geared discs with far too much haste isn't even at 1 PPM and it lasts 10 seconds) is 1% healing flat.
    Concidering how little spirit means to disc, you have to remember that you are going to be trading 600 spirit, your absolutely worst stat, for 600 crit, your absolutely best stat. This would probably be close to outweighting the benefit from the +healing% proc part of the cloak.
    What playstyle are people using that causes spirit to be the worst stat? Strictly atonement healing?

  4. #24
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    You can drop a boatload of spirit if you only ever shield during Lucidity procs, personally I still consider haste worse than spirit but I can see how people would feel differently.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    What playstyle are people using that causes spirit to be the worst stat? Strictly atonement healing?
    Pretty much. I run with 7.3k (which to me, feels like far too much - forced into it due to every tier piece having spirit/mastery, and no one else wanting cloth spirit items), and have absolutely no mana issues, been as low as 6.2K this tier. Lucidity procs + shield gives a ton of mana, and apart from that, consider all your mana-regen sources:

    Rapture - Fixed amount, dependant on shield cost.
    Solace - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Shadowfiend - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Hymn of Hope - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Trinket procs - Fixed amount for Siegecrafter's spirit trinket (1.4K mp5 or so average), and scaled on Horridon's trinket with haste (2k haste adds .05 PPM to the trinket for me <.< IT'S SOMETHING!).

    In the end, since Rapture scaling was removed, the only thing spirit does is give it's 562 Mp5 per 1K spirit. As Solace restores about 8K mana per cast, and is cast on average by any half decent priest 5 times per minute, that's 40K mana over a minute, giving 3.3K Mp5. So essentially, JUST to meet the same amount of mana that solace returns, you need about 6K spirit - spirit that could have been crit or mastery :3.

    That said, I have absolutely no issues using shields "heavily", either, Lohe - this is a log of Malkorok from this reset (before I went up to 7.3K spirit due to tier, got the gloves off of Nazgrim right before): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=1074&e=1434 has me casting one shield roughly every 7.2 seconds. Mana was a non issue, and as you can see, output wasn't half bad, either.

  6. #26
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    What playstyle are people using that causes spirit to be the worst stat? Strictly atonement healing?
    I actually am not the best atonement healer ever, I probably am smiting away 20-30% of the time. However, I run with 8.2k spirit and I'm much less geared than say Draco, and I never run into mana issues either. I would much rather have stats in Crit and Mastery than stats in Spirit if I can help it. Spirit, past just the amount of regen I need, does absolutely nothing for me. I shield outside of Lucidity procs, and still never run myself OOM. I've reforged completely out of spirit, so I have a lot of innate haste of my gear (4.7k ish I think... it's gross).

    Unlike Lohe, I don't mind haste, at least it keeps me smiting faster. But, I can definitely understand why people would rather reforge out of haste.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Pretty much. I run with 7.3k (which to me, feels like far too much - forced into it due to every tier piece having spirit/mastery, and no one else wanting cloth spirit items), and have absolutely no mana issues, been as low as 6.2K this tier. Lucidity procs + shield gives a ton of mana, and apart from that, consider all your mana-regen sources:

    Rapture - Fixed amount, dependant on shield cost.
    Solace - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Shadowfiend - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Hymn of Hope - Fixed amount, dependant on max mana.
    Trinket procs - Fixed amount for Siegecrafter's spirit trinket (1.4K mp5 or so average), and scaled on Horridon's trinket with haste (2k haste adds .05 PPM to the trinket for me <.< IT'S SOMETHING!).

    In the end, since Rapture scaling was removed, the only thing spirit does is give it's 562 Mp5 per 1K spirit. As Solace restores about 8K mana per cast, and is cast on average by any half decent priest 5 times per minute, that's 40K mana over a minute, giving 3.3K Mp5. So essentially, JUST to meet the same amount of mana that solace returns, you need about 6K spirit - spirit that could have been crit or mastery :3.

    That said, I have absolutely no issues using shields "heavily", either, Lohe - this is a log of Malkorok from this reset (before I went up to 7.3K spirit due to tier, got the gloves off of Nazgrim right before): http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z...?s=1074&e=1434 has me casting one shield roughly every 7.2 seconds. Mana was a non issue, and as you can see, output wasn't half bad, either.
    How does atonement with minimal spirit compare to the more typical playstyle in 10m? Your log is from 25m, and a few others I've been looking at that have the same playstyle ( like this one someone posted a few days ago, http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7y...?s=7014&e=7429 (oh hey that's you)) are all for 25m, and they're exploiting the non-scaling of the level 90 talents. Are similar results possible for 10m?

    Atonement is usually a very low part of my total healing (20%?), and compared to the other healers I'm doing very well.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    I'd like to point out a 10m log I did, where I ran with my "25m oh hey look a shaman" spirit. At this time I was 529 ilvl, for reference.

    Galakras 10m Normal
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2459&e=3041

    Very little atonement healing, relying heavily on DS, ToF, meta gem procs for shields, etc. But I ran it with low spirit that gave me quite a bit of crit and mastery.

    Iron Juggernaut 10m Normal
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7068&e=7480

    A bit more atonement, a lot of PW: Shield.

    Here's Thok, 25m Normal:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=11805&e=12202

    Atonement generally never exceeds 10% or more of my healing. I could push it more, but most of my DA comes from my level 90 talents. I still find no need for more than 8.5k spirit, 10m or 25m. Honeslty I could probably run with 7k or less in 25m, but ... too many spirit pieces.

    I'd like to note that one of my favorite priests, Amabella, generally runs very low spirit and is 10m. I don't think they have a lot of public logs, but the last I saw they had 7k spirit ish in 10m.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Larynx View Post
    How does atonement with minimal spirit compare to the more typical playstyle in 10m? Your log is from 25m, and a few others I've been looking at that have the same playstyle ( like this one someone posted a few days ago, http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-7y...?s=7014&e=7429 (oh hey that's you)) are all for 25m, and they're exploiting the non-scaling of the level 90 talents. Are similar results possible for 10m?

    Atonement is usually a very low part of my total healing (20%?), and compared to the other healers I'm doing very well.
    I don't think there's a whole lot of "high end" priests with public logs ATM, so yea, it's probably me if I've posted an example =P. Just easier to work with when I know the background around what happens in the log, y'know?
    This char started out as an alt in our 10 man guild run, only using it now because we've been unable to find a proper priest healer ever since our last one quit due to work reasons (HINT HINT HINT - We've got a spot, folks, let me back on my hunter!). Back during ToT, Atonement was *extremely* potent - much more so than 25 man. I see no reason why this would have changed now. If you had your partner keep an eye on the tanks, the raid would automatically get topped through splash healing from atonement anyway. In 25 man, the same goes, really, but there's obviously more smart heals to compete with. On the other hand, absorbs are still a major plus in either raid size, so while we may lack in output compared to the other healers on some fights, disc easily makes up for in utility. You can see in my Malkorok log that my average shield hit for 260K - not shoddy at all when you consider it's an instant cast that doesn't care about the targets current health.

    That said, no, you're not going to get anywhere near the same results from Halo/Divine star in 10 man. The uncapped-ness is fairly OP for 25. On the other hand, PoH and spirit shell are far more potent and valueable tools in a 10 man enviroment, especially after the nerf to SS's duration, allowing you to get fewer casts off. In 25 man, you can cover 2 groups "well" with absorbs, maybe a third if you stack haste CD's and have 4 set. This still leaves half the raid unprotected. In 10 man, you're easily covering all the incomming damage with a single shell.
    That said, we've been progressing Spoils the past day (~40 wipes in, 1% energy wipe QQ), where the raids basicly split in to 2x 10 mans - it might just be spoils itself, but I find Halo alot more potent in the enviroment than Divine Star. Divine star in 25 man fills the "everyone's lost a bit of HP, fire off to top everyone up now and GG"-niche, but that doesn't really exist in a 10 man, because atonement takes care of that. Halo, on the other hand, is on-demand +300K burst heals on people, which is something Disc probably lacks compared to other healers.

  10. #30
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    (HINT HINT HINT - We've got a spot, folks, let me back on my hunter!).
    It's like you need a disc priest or something. I'm not sure though.

  11. #31
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    You are also raiding with 2 resto shamans Draco, which allows you to dump spirit like crazy. As someone who raids 25 man with 0 resto shamans the playstyle needs to be more careful in my position

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    I posted 10m logs with low spirit. And I know of many other 10m priests who run low spirit.

    How low can you go, depends completely on the player. But I know of 10m priests who do not run with Shamans/druids who sit around 7-8k and seem not to have any problems. Now that Hymn prefers healers, and the meta gem is still OP as intended, I can't imagine running more than 10k as disc, even in 10m while two-healing.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Elo View Post
    You are also raiding with 2 resto shamans Draco, which allows you to dump spirit like crazy. As someone who raids 25 man with 0 resto shamans the playstyle needs to be more careful in my position
    Look at my spoils wipes again mate. The first half night we had no resto shamans in at all (it was me, Hjack, Renewing, Ruup healing - druid, mistweaver, paladin. Me+druid in mogu, mistweaver+paladin in mantid). On the second night Ruup (paladin) couldn't show, so after switching a fifth healer out because it really wasn't as needed as we thought, we had 1 shaman in. He wasn't in my quadrant, ever, so no mana tide.
    Still no mana issues. I usually end fights at +200K mana with shamans present, meaning I could easily drop far more spirit (if that was actually possible, QQ all dat spirit gear).

    That said, I can understand how you would believe the shamans are actually making a difference. I can assure you, they're not, though, outside of extremely intense situations like Malkorok with heavy shield-spam, and a low emphasis on atonement :3.
    Heck, check their armories, gemmed for int etc =P. Not mana batteries (ofc, they still add mana, but you get the point).

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    I have both and swap based on the fight, if I had to pick only one for some reason I'd use the healer cloak.
    Basically this. If the fight needs a bit more DPs i`ll put on my DPs cloak if not i`m using the healing one to make our lives a little bit better.
    However I would have most likely chosen for the DPs cloak if i had to pick one. as the margin in healing is neglectable most of the time. and the proc on the DPs one is still good for a few percent of a boss.

  15. #35
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    It's like you need a disc priest or something. I'm not sure though.
    I wonder if he's desperate enough to pay my transfers and let me call him my bitch!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    That said, no, you're not going to get anywhere near the same results from Halo/Divine star in 10 man. The uncapped-ness is fairly OP for 25. On the other hand, PoH and spirit shell are far more potent and valueable tools in a 10 man enviroment, especially after the nerf to SS's duration, allowing you to get fewer casts off. In 25 man, you can cover 2 groups "well" with absorbs, maybe a third if you stack haste CD's and have 4 set. This still leaves half the raid unprotected. In 10 man, you're easily covering all the incomming damage with a single shell.
    Binding heal is often better and faster than PoH in 10 mens when spirit shell is in cd. According to healcalc, glyphed binding heal is almost 400k hps with my gear, PoH is about 300k. And more importantly, binding heal casts almost second faster than PoH which is big advantage. And thats why you need lot more than 7-8k spirit as 10 men disc imho. 12k is prolly good starting position for harder normals/hc modes. But guess its also healing setup depended, maybe if there is some other healer doing "emergency" healing then disc could go lower spirit and just provide constant shielding and hps.

  17. #37
    Binding Heal has more hps than Prayer of Healing only when the priest himself has lost enough health. Most of the time it is effective for one or two casts and you should use PoH and other spells afterwards.
    Last edited by Noradin; 2013-09-30 at 04:04 PM.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Glyphed binding heal doesn't need a ton of spirit. To me that's like "I use Flash heal as an emergency heal, better stack spirit". One or two casts is not worth 5k spirit (I can see even 10k ish as 10m, but 12k?), and much past 3 or 4 consecutive casts you're going to see a large overheal on yourself and other spells are going to be a better choice imho. Spamming it until people are topped off is not favorable, in my eyes. Get people up to a safety buffer and allow atonement/priest talent/DA shields do the rest.

    I don't believe that you need 3 healers to justify running low spirit either. If there is more damage to be healer between less healers, that doesn't always indicate the need for more spirit. I find there is a balance between throughput and healing the correct targets during the right times instead of having more spirit (ie spell selection). Though there has to be a reasonable amount of spirit to do this in the first place. It's entirely possible to run with more spirit and get similar results, because spirit is generally more forgiving of mistakes (at the player level).

    Throughput gearing favors predictable heavy damage because in the periods where you know there shouldn't be tons of damage, you can cast less filler without compromising effectiveness, essentially saving yourself on mana.

    AT least, that's how I operate, both in 10m and 25m.
    Last edited by Naer; 2013-09-30 at 04:10 PM.

  19. #39
    The healing cloak is very lack luster for disc. I see half the returns of say our monk. I use the DPS cloak.

  20. #40
    Im a disc priest (544), and though I havent done anything but Flex this tier, the Spirit of Chi-Ji has been only doing about 2% healing, of which 30-50% is usually overhealing anyway. The resto druid I usually heal with, though, gets insane amounts of mileage out of it. Of course, this is because of the nature of the healing of the different specs. Disc already overheals very little, and, with Divine Aegis being our top heal, we barely gain any redistribution from our most powerful "healing". Compare that to say, a resto druid or any of the other healing classes which can have huge amounts of overheal from aoe spam, disc gets very little mileage out of the proc.

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