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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post

    I always use the imp now, even if I don't have explanation.
    tending towards this as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    I would also ask for logs regarding to Imp pulling more DPS. You can´t just come here and say it does more DPS just by posting two numbers, even my grandma could do that
    I can do whatever I like, but your grandma is not a warlock so she can't come here and spew numbers.
    No serisouly, keep it civil. There's no numbers in my post -
    I am just responding my thoughts to what a lot of other players are noticing : imps feels stronger on most fights, and people in this thread, including me, mention having better end results using it.. Is it recount ? Is it RNG ? Target switches ?

    Pull numbers out of my ass (ie, logs) would look like this :

    imp :
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4004&e=4411
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=4004&e=4411

    observer :
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5723&e=5991
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6849&e=7368
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=10835&e=11113

    TL; Didn't read logs :
    Observer aroun 29-33K dps. Imp around 28-30.
    This confirms the sims : Observer is stronger once it is attacking, and on the target.
    DPS / DPSe, NOT DAMAGE DONE.

    Now back to what the people in the thread were mentionning ... Imp feels a lot stronger in most fights. Now why is that. I get what someone wrote in red on jugg. Me + pet are usually back to a wall so this never came up.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post

    TL; Didn't read logs :
    Observer aroun 29-33K dps. Imp around 28-30.
    This confirms the sims : Observer is stronger once it is attacking, and on the target.
    DPS / DPSe, NOT DAMAGE DONE.
    There are 3 warlocks on Norushen.
    You: 256k DPS - 404s active time - Imp: 11mil damage
    A retarded warlock (sorry but... how can your pet only do Melee damage?:|) - 329s active time (somehow lost 1:10 of the fight >.<) - pet did 5.25mil
    Conqq that again lost a lot of the fight - 312s active time - Pet did 7.8-ish mil damage. If he was alive/not in portals the entire fight, the pet would have done at least 10.2mil

    That fight has so many variables it can't be used tho.

    Also tell Yeezus TO TURN HIS PETS TONGUE LASH ON FOR CHIRST'S SAKE. On Nazgrim alone he lost 2.5mil damage because of it >.<. That's like what? 3.3% more DPS? He would have been at around 310k DPS instead of 300k:|

    The big question is, are you the one logging the fight? Because if you are, I found your problem .
    Last edited by Ichifails; 2013-09-30 at 10:16 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    I can do whatever I like, but your grandma is not a warlock so she can't come here and spew numbers.
    No serisouly, keep it civil. There's no numbers in my post - I am just responding my thoughts to what a lot of other players are noticing : imps feels stronger on most fights, and people in this thread, including me, mention having better end results using it.. Is it recount ? Is it RNG ? Target switches ?
    I meant the two random numbers from Lubercus first post. My answer at your post was all inside the quote, in red
    I don´t like people claiming things and then posting just some numbers they got out of skada/recount without any logs or screens. nothing more credible then any troll.
    Last edited by Valyna; 2013-09-30 at 10:24 AM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    [nice analysis]
    The big question is, are you the one logging the fight? Because if you are, I found your problem .
    Yes, i was logging that one.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    In sims, yeah observer is above.
    But imo, the fights favour the imp :

    Immersus : Imps turns around and fires, observer has to run between middle of room and edges
    Protectors : Imp hands down. too much target switching etc, which would cause the observer to run a lot
    Norushit : I can observer here, np.
    Sha : Observer
    Galakras : Pets keep trying to climb the tower here, but i'd still gor for imp given the amount of target switching
    Iron Jugg : Seen people in this thread go imp, i don't see a reason to, unless the imp actually pushes more out. straight up patchwerk.
    Dark Shammies : Imp. target switches
    Nazgrim : Could observer and just leave him on the boss / send to adds. The interupt can be handy. No real winner imo here.
    Malkorok : Observer
    Spoils : imp
    Thok : I wanna say Felguard ^^ but haven't tried demo since the anihilation.
    Blackfuse : Imp
    Paragons : Imp
    Garrosh : Leave observer on boss / imp on assist (?)
    Voidlord for Thok, active soul link, void shield will reflect lots of damage, more damage than beholder.

  6. #26
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Don't forget that if you're in a 10 man, you might not have the sunder armour debuff.

    We now have a warrior tank so it's ok, but previously we had issues as our boomkin refused to waste globals on the cast, and our rogue wasn't always available.

    With the fel imp as long as magic debuff is up you're golden.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Just passing through, Fel Imp is always outdpsing my observer.
    On every fight, with of without KB, and accounting every source of the observer's damage.

    I always use the imp now, even if I don't have explanation.
    Playing 10 man and missing some buffs? (-12% armor and 4% more physical are important debuffs for the observer, imp only needs curse of elements)

  8. #28
    I'm always using Fel Imp unless we desperately need another pet for reasons such as interrupts.

    I have no actual logs or anything to provide proof, but from casual glances at skada and logs, I have always found that I personally get (much) better results with my imp than I do with my observer.
    And obviously, AI+Melee=Suicide.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by fassade View Post
    Voidlord for Thok, active soul link, void shield will reflect lots of damage, more damage than beholder.
    ....Do you have logs or anything ? Thinking of the huge damage-incoming stuff in SoO would make this..... Interesting...

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    ....Do you have logs or anything ? Thinking of the huge damage-incoming stuff in SoO would make this..... Interesting...
    If its really working, then maybe only on thok. His interrupt is physical dmg, so it would be possible that it´s triggering his shield (no connection to soul link I guess, since he is anyway taking the aoe dmg). Can´t really think of any other physical aoe dmg atm.

  11. #31
    Malkorok insane "cleaveinyourface" would be a good start. I'm just toying with the idea

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    @Lupercus: I would also ask for logs regarding to Imp pulling more DPS. You can´t just come here and say it does more DPS just by posting two numbers, even my grandma could do that
    I can come here and say whatever i want, unfort i knew alot of people were expecting logs, but i didnt log anything on my alt, so i just noted the numbers out of skada, since apparently i always felt like doing higher dps with the imp.. I just wanted to bring something up, never thougt it would be such a big argue out of it, but it seems like its been.. And that's good, cause apparently i may be right, imp may be situational for some fights or maybe all of them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranica View Post
    You realize that you're talking about a boss with a very powerful knockback, right? Your observer is getting punted out of melee range.

    And you Mr bringing up the knockback argue on Iron Jugger, i stood infront of the boss, me and my pet.. So none of them got knocked back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bareno View Post
    Pretty sure observer scales better from debuffs / buffs and plus, you gotta include its auto attacks. That's just what I've heard though.
    Who gives the debuffs form melee thingie? 12% armor reduce and 4% more physical damage?
    Last edited by Lupercus; 2013-09-30 at 12:26 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupercus View Post

    And you Mr bringing up the knockback argue on Iron Jugger, i stood infront of the boss, me and my pet.. So none of them got knocked back.
    You'd be taking time away from the demon's dpsing just by the act of bringing it to you, infront of the boss, away from where it would automatically go. It will be spending quite some time on the move, regardless of what you do.
    (So will the imp, unless you place it up against a wall, I assume)

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Malkorok insane "cleaveinyourface" would be a good start. I'm just toying with the idea
    I don´t think 20sec of voidshields would come up for the dps loss you get from changing your pet / playing with void the whole fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Filth the Warlock View Post
    You'd be taking time away from the demon's dpsing just by the act of bringing it to you, infront of the boss, away from where it would automatically go. It will be spending quite some time on the move, regardless of what you do.
    (So will the imp, unless you place it up against a wall, I assume)
    we´re talking about a difference of about 50% damage. Thats no missing armor debuff or pet not attacking for a few seconds.
    there are three possibilities:
    1. the numbers are completely wrong
    2. there have been serious problems with pet handling, including things like pet on passiv, deactivated specialabilities (although he said it was activated..), pet died
    3. this is just another trolling attempt

    if imp would actually do more dps than observer, then it would be a small amount of damage, compared to the dmg gain from lets say observer to shivara maybe caused because of trinket proccs, stats scaling or whatever. noway theres an 50% difference in petdamage
    edit: btw, according to those numbers, his Imp would have done 36k dps. please show me any log with an imp that is actually doing that much without an dmg modifier on the boss. It´s a bit high for an warlock alt (unless it is full heroic ;D) when I think of the about 25-28k dps my imp is doing with 560ilvl
    Last edited by Valyna; 2013-09-30 at 01:42 PM.

  15. #35
    You are missing possibility nr. 4: Something is bugged.
    For example, the imp could have rediscovered ghost-immolate.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    ....Do you have logs or anything ? Thinking of the huge damage-incoming stuff in SoO would make this..... Interesting...
    I don't have a log myself, but I've got 2 players' logs.
    You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times.
    Gonna put some space between the link.
    Warlock No.1 with voidlord.
    www . worldoflogs . com / reports / h9u9db2uxi6ntugc / sum /damageDone / ?s=9425&e=9866#嵐之徒
    His ilvl is 556, here is his armory
    tw . battle . net / wow / zh / character / %E6%B0%B4%E6%99%B6%E4%B9%8B%E5%88%BA / %E5%B5%90%E4%B9%8B%E5%BE%92 / simple

    Warlock No.2 with fel imp.
    www . worldoflogs . com / reports / x8tqzgp74bqvhar0 / sum / damageDone / ?s=4855&e=5153#焚術
    Her ilvl is 565, but her imp's dps is lower than the former's voidlord
    tw . battle . net / wow / zh / character / %E8%81%96%E5%85%89%E4%B9%8B%E9%A1%98 / %E7%84%9A%E8%A1%93 / simple

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    I don´t think 20sec of voidshields would come up for the dps loss you get from changing your pet / playing with void the whole fight.
    Yup, and the fact that the voidwalker must be in front to take the cleave (and the soul link might not trigger it) makes it a bad idea. I just want to think about that possibility, not claim that it's obviously the way things must be.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Shauni View Post
    Yup, and the fact that the voidwalker must be in front to take the cleave (and the soul link might not trigger it) makes it a bad idea. I just want to think about that possibility, not claim that it's obviously the way things must be.
    I do believe that the Voidlord is the 2nd best pet atm after Observer according to sims.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eiffeltower View Post
    Yes, i was logging that one.

    You can go ahead and remove "Min/Maxer" from your WoWprogress page. Your Norushen log proves that Observer does more damage. You can't be a "Min/Maxer", "I can do whatever I like, but your grandma is not a warlock so she can't come here and spew numbers." while YOUR OWN LOG PROVES THE BLOODY IMP IS DOING LESS DAMAGE AND DPS >.>.

  19. #39
    i noticed alot more locks using imps. i dont have the logs to confirm or deny that imps are better then observers

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHuolo View Post
    i noticed alot more locks using imps. i dont have the logs to confirm or deny that imps are better then observers
    I think imps are usually better because they are versatile: DPS, dispel, healing.
    They are ranged attackers, so they suffer less penalty from moving.
    Observers are the best damage dealer theoretically, but imps are more useful in real fights

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