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  1. #1
    not good with computers
    chaud's Avatar
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    Heroic Garrosh Defeated, SoO Heroic Progression, Blue Tweets, Setup of the Month

    AH Update, Blizzard Working on Cinematic Auto-Skipping, Book of Tyrael at NY Comic Con, Curse Weekly Roundup

    Heroic Garrosh Defeated
    The 10 player Heroic Garrosh encounter has been defeated in Asia by 天 啟. The group had a 573+ item level, compared to the top US and EU guilds that currently have a 565 item level.



    Siege of Orgrimmar Heroic Progression
    Method, Blood Legion, and Exorsus are leading progress with 13/14 bosses down now, followed by five other guilds at 12/14. Over in the 10 player column, Paragon and Depraved are leading with 13/14 bosses down.



    Blue Tweets
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Class Balance Discussion
    For discussion: How to solve the problem that most class discussions happen in sequestered class forums, which tend to have an echo chamber? (Source)
    must ask whats good bout discussion? Just lots of opinons?maybe in game sticky so anyone can say what they likehate bout class
    Discussions tend to dismantle weak arguments and let stronger ones rise to the top. Discussions are like lists + evolution. (Source)
    Doesn't stop many common opinions in the community that have been dismantled time and time again.
    I agree with that, though I think that's a function of online discussion forums typically having rapid turnover. (Source)

    change the format. and both use formats which generate a lot of traction. Forums are becoming antiquated.
    Videos take too long to watch (esp with ads). I don't get the appeal. I like Reddit though. (Source)

    ..and that brings it back to my initial problem. The echo chamber argument is pretty weak....
    I agree with Lhivera. The echo chamber effect resists debates and encourages brofisting. (Source)
    Sounds harsh and elitist, but their progress and experience tells the same story 95% of the time.
    But aren't you essentially arguing that the players are usually right? That is by far not the case. They are right... sometimes. (Source)

    Arguments for a real problem and for a bogus problem will look very similar in a brofisting context.
    Think of it from our POV, where there are always far more demands from players than the game really needs. (Source)
    Separating good arguments from bad is non-trivial, so seeing a healthy debate w/ many POVs can help us make that distinction. (Source)

    also enforces groupthink around "my class sucks".
    And anyone who intrudes to disagree either "doesn't understand our issues" or is accused of trolling. (Source)
    I'll say it again: You will never get as good feedback as you will get from the class specific forums. Ever.
    Not from where I sit. Now it's possible to have healthy debate in class forums, but I rarely see it, and I read a lot of forums. (Source)

    I think that would just move the echo chamber somewhere else. Vidcast discussion panels with top players/TCs.
    It's interesting that panels and podcasts tend to invite dissenting opinions (w/in reason). (Source)
    I think they understand that (softly) competitive structure yields more interesting & informed discussions. (Source)
    I disagree that it's the format - more the interaction. If there's more from blues I believe you'd see more healthy discussion
    The problem is the developers themselves are very busy and can't afford to spend hours per day in forums. (Twitter is fast.) (Source)

    Why is the echo chamber a problem? Not trying to be sarcastic; trying to understand what alternate state is desired.
    We're not saying there aren't class problems, but when everything is portrayed as a crisis, it's hard to know really needs fixing. (Source)
    The echo chamber effect can also cause thought leaders or eloquent posters to create mountains out of molehills. (Source)
    It's nice to get a "um your DPS is fine" dissenting opinion, but those "trolls" get chased out of class-specific threads. (Source)
    you're guilty of this sort over tweets. 'We like where xx is at'. Some weeks later hotfix or minor patch and buffs appear
    That is ultimately the system working though. Sometimes players convince us a change is necessary. Other times data prove us wrong. (Source)

    Legitimate contributors are discouraged from posting because of toxic abusive posters. Remove problems, contributors return?
    I used to subscribe to that more, but over moderation can also create fear and resentment. (Source)
    It's also something we can't enforce on websites other than our own, but conversations certainly take place there. (Source)

    Bold idea: remove class forums. No echo. "Answers/Advice For New Players" can be its own forum instead.
    It's not strictly a "class subforum" problem. Even general forums spawn class-specific threads. (Source)

    And to be clear, I do think that blues should always be very careful when they decide to post in a class forum.
    I don't personally post in class forums anymore (or rarely anywhere). It caused more QQ than it solved IMO. (Source)
    Even today you see Why didn't we get posts / as many posts / as many substantial posts / more posts b/c our issues are worse? (Source)

    Reputation / Questing
    I should clarify... levelling ONE char was fun. Levelling more in MoP was not.
    That's fair criticism. We hoped that choices like Four Winds vs. Krasarang would help the second time around. (Source)

    I'm wondering, how do you guys consider MOP levelling? A success, failure / could be better? I find it rather boring.
    We think it was probably a little slow overall. At launch, you did a bunch of quests and saw the XP bar grow only a little. (Source)
    We buffed the leveling speed a patch or two ago. It feels better now IMO. (Source)

    can we get option to show rep gain in quest dialog?
    We explored this, but many quests offer rep for multiple factions (like e.g. all Alliance cities) and it was really spammy. (Source)

    So you'd rather people get burnt out on gearing, than actually participate because it's fun?
    We find most players won't participate in any activity without motivation from rewards that improve power. (Source)
    In fact the opposite can also be true: if we're not careful, players will engage in unfun things just for the power rewards. (Source)
    You mean daily quests?
    Or chain running Mechanar. Or farming Sunwell trash. The list goes on. (Source)

    I hate to sound like an echo chamber, but dailies feeling required are why I'm not playing Mists.
    I think your information might be fairly old. The new patch has virtually no dailies. It still has a lot to do. (Source)

    Computers - Setup of the Month (by chaud)
    Each month or every 2 months, depending on the hardware evolutions, the lovely chaud will work on a couple of hardware setups for those of you who are thinking of upgrading their computer!

    This month
    New GPUs from AMD are on the way, so if you are only upgrading your GPU it might be worth it to wait a month or two.

    The current SSD prices are stable, with most SSDs under $1 per gigabyte when on sale. RAM prices are continuing to climb.

    The Haswell CPUs from Intel are here and they run a little bit on the warmer side. Depending on how much you want to overclock, you may need to spend a bit more for a better CPU cooler like the NH-D14 or H90.

    Unless you are doing a lot of video rendering or something that is similarly multithreaded, you do not need the 4770K and should spend that money elsewhere.

    Make sure to keep your AMD and Nvidia drivers up to date.

    Don't hesitate to post any feedback in the comments of that news post, and don't forget to visit the Computer Forum for any extra questions! If you are interested in Folding@home, take a look in our team's thread.


    Peripherals/Monitors
    ComponentPuppy Dolphin
    MonitorAsus VE228H 21.5-Inch Monitor - $127ASUS VS248H-P 24-Inch Monitor - $160
    KeyboardKensington Pro Fit Media Keyboard - $18Cyborg V.5 - $48
    MouseLogitech G400s - $44Razer Deathadder - $48
    SpeakersCreative A220 2.1 Speaker System - $26Logitech Z313 Speaker System - $35
    ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
    MonitorAsus VE258Q 25-Inch Monitor - $216HP ZR2440W 24-inch - $367
    KeyboardLogitech G510 - $79Razer BlackWidow (Backlit)- $70 ($120)
    MouseLogitech G500 - $52Razer Naga (Buttons on the Side) - $70
    SpeakersLogitech Z323 2.1 Speaker System - $55Logitech Speaker System Z523 - $66


    Puppy and Dolphin
    All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Puppy and Dolphin.
    ComponentPuppy Dolphin
    CaseNZXT Source 210 - $36NZXT Source 210 - $36
    Power SupplyCorsair CX500 - $45XFX Core Edition PRO 550W - $61
    CPUAMD FX-6300 - $120AMD FX-8320 - $154
    HeatsinkCooler Master Hyper 212 Plus - $18Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO - $33
    MotherboardASUS M5A97 R2.0 - $103ASUS M5A99FX PRO - $115
    MemoryKingston HyperX Blu 4GB 1333 - $418GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $79
    Graphics CardXFX 7770 - $95Gigabyte 7870 2 GB or Gigabyte GTX 660 OC - $190 / $180
    Hard DriveWestern Digital Caviar Blue 500GB - $56Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - $85
    DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
    Total$536$765 - $775


    Narwhal and Unicorn
    All of these parts can be mixed and matched to create a build between Narwhal and Unicorn.
    ComponentNarwhal Unicorn
    CaseCooler Master HAF 912 - $60Corsair Air 540 (Special Layout) - $140
    Power SupplyCorsair 650TX V2 - $87Corsair 750HX - $110
    CPUIntel i5-4670K - $241Intel i7-4770K - $340
    HeatsinkThermaltake Frio - $56Noctua 6 NH-D14 - $77
    MotherboardASUS Z87-A - $140ASUS Z87-PLUS - $155
    Memory8GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $7916GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 - $153
    Graphics CardMSI 7950 OR MSI N760 TF - $265 / $260Gigabyte 7970 - $280
    Hard DriveWestern Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85Western Digital 1TB Caviar Black - $85
    SSDSAMSUNG 840 128GB (Review) - $95
    OR
    Plextor 128 GB M5 Pro (Review) - $116
    Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB (Review) - $125
    OR
    SAMSUNG 840 Pro 128GB (Review) - $133
    DVDAsus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22Asus 24X SATA DVD+/-RW - $22
    Total$1125 - $1151$1457 - $1495


    Heroes of the Storm Trademark
    The Heroes of the Storm trademark from last week appears to have been applied for in the US database now as well. Keep in mind that nothing is confirmed until trademarks are granted.

    Last edited by chaud; 2013-09-29 at 08:53 PM.

  2. #2
    Grats to them Even with higher ilvl (if they had it) fight isn't a pushover.

  3. #3
    Blademaster
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    Congratulations to them.

    How they are able to achieve a higher iLvl?

  4. #4
    just to be clear, heroic 10m in asia is like heroic 10m LK back in wrath? aka not even the hardest difficulty? :3
    Quote Originally Posted by inboundpaper View Post
    The short answer is nope, the long answer is noooooooooooooooope.

  5. #5
    That higher ilevel also came with a boss that had 10% more health, damage, etc etc, so it averages out.

    Grats to them! Good luck to everyone else!

  6. #6
    Betting that Heroes of the Storm is a Blizzard DOTA rename

  7. #7
    The Insane
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    ... So heroic Garrosh involves not just killing him, but apparently fighting him in some sort of alternate reality?... Mmmkay...

  8. #8
    Worlds first is worlds first....

    Even thought this is like putting 2 football players in a game while one of them is on steroids and the other one clean.

    Grats to them still, i believe.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by moveth View Post
    Grats to them Even with higher ilvl (if they had it) fight isn't a pushover.
    http://www.battlenet.com.cn/wow/zh/c...AD%90/advanced

    ilvl 575 Warlock from that guild.
    Engineer = Mage

    Biggest possible firepower, yet they keep whining. "SPY SAPPIN' MAH SENTRY!"

  10. #10
    I don't understand... why aren't they listed in the table underneath the first news? Isn't Garrosh the 14th boss?

  11. #11
    Why would China have higher ilvl items already .. ?

    ... And they can upgrade items 4 times instead of 2 for us ?

    Items upgrade 4/4

  12. #12
    top us and eu 10 man guilds have max 563 not 565 thats a 10+ itemlevel difference.

  13. #13
    not good with computers
    chaud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    I don't understand... why aren't they listed in the table underneath the first news? Isn't Garrosh the 14th boss?
    Asia is essentially a different race now with the differing lockouts and item levels depending on country. WoWProgress only tracks US/EU in that table, but you can find the Asia race here, minus China.

  14. #14
    Well its not like it is hard when they get 2 lock outs a week. Cool they killed it. Now back to the real race between EU and US.

  15. #15
    Differences in Asia raiding:

    10man is the same as West
    25man has a 10% dmg/hp buff to all enemies, and bosses drop higher ilvl than West
    10 and 25 do not share a lockout so both raid sizes can be run each week

    So they effectively have 3 additional weeks worth of loot over what we could have by now, in addition to the higher ilvl drops

  16. #16
    Yes why arent they listed with the other guilds on wowprogress?? does Asia not count because of the zone? or what and how is it they can have a 10 ilvl average gear higher then the best of the rest of the world? Do they still get the double raid lockouts on this too?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by AK_47 View Post
    Why would China have higher ilvl items already .. ?

    ... And they can upgrade items 4 times instead of 2 for us ?

    Items upgrade 4/4
    Because 25 man bosses over there drop items that are already 2/4.
    You can try to fit me in a box, only to see me burst out of it.

  18. #18
    What Chaud said. They have higher iLVL and more frequent lockouts than the rest of the world. Therefore it wouldn't be fair to include them in the race to world first when they have a clear advantage.

    @ Heroes of the Storm. Kind of a bad name choice since it shares the same acronym as Heart of the Swarm. People might get confused and you can't just simply call it HS (since "of" and "the" are normally excluded in acronyms) because people might think you're referring to Hearthstone :P

  19. #19
    Pit Lord Huntaer's Avatar
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    That shit doesn't count, asia has more ilvl than the "normal" people >.>

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer CosmicGuitars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    Yes why arent they listed with the other guilds on wowprogress?? does Asia not count because of the zone? or what and how is it they can have a 10 ilvl average gear higher then the best of the rest of the world? Do they still get the double raid lockouts on this too?
    They don't count because Blizzard has given them separate 25man and 10man lockouts, and their 25man gear is higher iLevel than what the US/EU has access to. They have gear that nobody else could possibly obtain, and have outgeared the 10m version by funnelling 25m gear to their raiders. It's a significant advantage over the raiders in the US and EU, so people have largely discounted it as being a part of the 'race', so to speak.

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