Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    Have you noticed they usually release a boss that is mathematically unkillable?

    The most dire quagmire WoW could put itself into is to release an end boss that is killable in its hardest mode from day one. It comes to reason that they may be so scared that may happen, that they may always make at least 1 or 2 bosses intentionally unkillable, have in fact the real live guilds try to kill it and make sure no weak points are there because after all if it's "just killable" the most tiny mistake could make it "easily killable".

  2. #2
    Please define 'mathematically unkillable'. A boss with a complex amount of hp?

    edit: just so we're clear, neither a boss with an enrage timer unbeatable in current gear, or a boss which is immune to all damage is 'mathematically unkillable'.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    The most dire quagmire WoW could put itself into is to release an end boss that is killable in its hardest mode from day one.
    As much as 50% of 2% of players would be scandalized.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    31,303
    Do you have any proof of this? Aside from C'thun, I haven't heard of a single boss that was mathematically un-killable with current gear.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,083
    So...which bosses this expansion have actually been unkillable prior to being nerfed? Or even in the last two expansions? The last ones I remember were Kael and Vashj, and it's debatable whether or not that was intentional.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Heenk View Post
    Please define 'mathematically unkillable'.
    It is defined in itself. If the parameters of the game can not kill it in any combination of gameplay/classes/rotations/etc. then it is mathematically unkillable. Without going to recent examples, a blatant example makes it easy to undestand: imagine trying to kill level 90 bosses on level 60 gear, it is mathematically impossible.

  7. #7
    There's a pretty big difference between being completely unkillable and being unkillable from day one though. In addition, whether they opened up the specific boss's testing in the PTR to the public or not has to be taken into consideration as well.

  8. #8
    I was expecting this to be a thread about rift as rift has done this multiple times. I cannot think of any bosses that were mathematically unkillable in wow aside from vanilla. (i didnt raid in vanilla so I wouldnt know)
    nothing but empty space here bro. move along now.

  9. #9
    If I recall correctly Ragnaros was mathematically unkillable at first. There was a tiny enrage timer. They did not wipe because of that but I suspect they would if they had overcome the other problems.

  10. #10
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,083
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    If I recall correctly Ragnaros was mathematically unkillable at first. There was a tiny enrage timer. They did not wipe because of that but I suspect they would if they had overcome the other problems.
    Okay, it looks like Blizzard did hotfix in a change to his enrage timer before the world first heroic kill, so I'll concede that one, but that's not really recent. In order for that to happen "usually" it needs to happen often. Do you have any other examples?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Okay, it looks like Blizzard did hotfix in a change to his enrage timer before the world first heroic kill, so I'll concede that one, but that's not really recent. In order for that to happen "usually" it needs to happen often. Do you have any other examples?
    Yes. They had enlarged the enrage timer by three full minutes which was very suspicious since they obviously have the capability to automatically calculate a good timer, it looked like they tried to have a safety net in case some of the mechanics tanked and people could tank and spank it. Concerning right now, I do not have data for the current bosses, but an interesting exercise would be to look for 'safety nets', e.g. first look at enrage timers and raid-wide possible dps.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Okay, it looks like Blizzard did hotfix in a change to his enrage timer before the world first heroic kill, so I'll concede that one, but that's not really recent. In order for that to happen "usually" it needs to happen often. Do you have any other examples?
    I think Yogg+0 25 was also pretty much unkillable, atleast that's what everybody thought until some guild pulled a crazy strategy. Don't think there are any other good examples at all, perhaps LK25hc with 0% buff, that also needed BiS gear on your entire raid afaik.

    Most end bosses these days are tuned in such a way that even if you're a top guild you're gonna need atleast a week or 2 to gear up for it. Pretty solid design if you ask me.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Do you have any proof of this? Aside from C'thun, I haven't heard of a single boss that was mathematically un-killable with current gear.
    IIRC Heroic Arthas 10m was "mathematically impossible" for an exclusively 10-m guild to kill for awhile. As in if a guild ran 10m and nothing else/higher it was impossible to kill Arthas. But it's been years so I could be wrong.

  14. #14
    I think "Mathematically unkillable" is a bit too extreme a term; "mathmatically very difficult with current gear" would be more true. And this IS done intentionally.

  15. #15
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,083
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    Yes. They had enlarged the enrage timer by three full minutes which was very suspicious since they obviously have the capability to automatically calculate a good timer, it looked like they tried to have a safety net in case some of the mechanics tanked and people could tank and spank it. Concerning right now, I do not have data for the current bosses, but an interesting exercise would be to look for 'safety nets', e.g. first look at enrage timers and raid-wide possible dps.
    Why make the claim if you don't have any data to support it? Just checking MoP bosses, none of the end-raid bosses (Will of the Emperor, Grand Empress Shek'zeer, Sha of Fear, or Lei Shen) were nerfed (at all) prior to being defeated on heroic. Similarly, none of the other Cataclysm end-raid bosses (Nefarian, Cho'gall, Al'akir, or Madness of Deathwing) were nerfed prior to being defeated on heroic. Ragnaros is the single outlier any time within the past few years. Therefore your claim appears to be false.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Why make the claim if you don't have any data to support it? Just checking MoP bosses, none of the end-raid bosses (Will of the Emperor, Grand Empress Shek'zeer, Sha of Fear, or Lei Shen) were nerfed (at all) prior to being defeated on heroic. Similarly, none of the other Cataclysm end-raid bosses (Nefarian, Cho'gall, Al'akir, or Madness of Deathwing) were nerfed prior to being defeated on heroic. Ragnaros is the single outlier any time within the past few years. Therefore your claim appears to be false.
    Sinestra was the end heroic boss of BoT, not Cho'gall. And she was hotfixed many times during Paragon's wipes on it, because there were mechanics that made her impossible to kill. It wasn't tested since they wanted it to be a surprise, which obviously didn't work out so well.

    But there hasn't been any recent examples.

  17. #17
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    2,168
    mathematically unkillable in previous tier gear sure... like u can't kill t16 bosses in t15 items... but I don't recall there ever being a boss that was unkillable by any1 with BiS gear untill nerf...

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,083
    Quote Originally Posted by nnelson54 View Post
    Sinestra was the end heroic boss of BoT, not Cho'gall. And she was hotfixed many times during Paragon's wipes on it, because there were mechanics that made her impossible to kill. It wasn't tested since they wanted it to be a surprise, which obviously didn't work out so well.
    Oh yeah, haha. Totally forgot about Sinestra.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Valyrian Stormclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    World's End Tavern, listening to the Level 90 Elite Tauren Chieftains
    Posts
    2,631
    All of the bosses are killable, the only difference is how much of a margin of error does each challenger have against the boss and whether or not they have the correct gear and strategy.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyrian Stormclaw View Post
    All of the bosses are killable, the only difference is how much of a margin of error does each challenger have against the boss and whether or not they have the correct gear and strategy.
    There have been a few unkillable bosses released, the OP just seems to be under some weird impression that this happens more than once every few years.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •