View Poll Results: After reading: Do you think HotS is EXP 5?

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222. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes! Make sense.

    39 17.57%
  • No! I have my doubts.

    119 53.60%
  • I'm not sure. Maybe.

    64 28.83%
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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    No, it wouldn't, because the title "Heroes of the Storm" implies that these so-called heroes are either made by whatever the "storm" is, or are actual heroes fighting for the titular storm. It does NOT imply "pre-existing heroes fighting against the storm" at all.
    This would be true if the storm were a literal storm (i.e. an object). But there's no evidence of that.
    The storm as an event can easily be read as a currently occurring "storm" in which people who are Heroes are fighting.

    The same way that I could write an article entitled "Soldiers of the Iraq War" and it doesn't imply that the soldiers were created by the war, they clearly could have existed before it, it just implies that they are involved in the war in some fashion.

    "Heroes of the Storm" can be read as Heroes who fight for the storm, heroes who were made heroes by the storm, or as heroes involved in thel "storm" that is the conflict between Azeroth and the Legion.
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  2. #122
    Patch 2.0.1 Before the storm - this was the event before BC launch. Since a demons return expansion is expected and the few hints in game like the Wrathion questline with Azeroth being bombarded by "meteors" it makes some sense, however .... Blizzcon soon.

  3. #123
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraner View Post
    Patch 2.0.1 Before the storm - this was the event before BC launch. Since a demons return expansion is expected and the few hints in game like the Wrathion questline with Azeroth being bombarded by "meteors" it makes some sense, however .... Blizzcon soon.
    You do realize what the phrase "Before the Storm" means, right? It comes from "Calm before the Storm," or the peace before a huge war.

    Heroes of the Storm has nothing to do with that phrase, so stop saying it's the Legion because 2.0.1.


    One other thing that makes me suspicious of this, assuming it isn't the rebranding of All-Stars, is the fact didn't Metzen blatantly say MoP was the "calm before the storm," seems way too.... convenient to name the next expansion after the storm.
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  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    You do realize what the phrase "Before the Storm" means, right? It comes from "Calm before the Storm," or the peace before a huge war.

    Heroes of the Storm has nothing to do with that phrase, so stop saying it's the Legion because 2.0.1.


    One other thing that makes me suspicious of this, assuming it isn't the rebranding of All-Stars, is the fact didn't Metzen blatantly say MoP was the "calm before the storm," seems way too.... convenient to name the next expansion after the storm.
    Ugh, for the last time, Metzen was refering to how players would arrive on pandaria and things would be more peaceful and pristine, and then later the war between the Alliance and Horde would come to Pandaria's shores and ruin everything. (e.g. Jade forest, Krasarang, Vale of Eternal Sorrows)
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  5. #125
    Kweh kweh kweh :3 I'll be thoroughly amused when World of Warcraft - Might of the Burning Toadsnakes is released, blowing everyone's assumptions and 'evidence' into oblivion :3

  6. #126
    Over 9000! Gheld's Avatar
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    Why would they only have a pending trademark application in NZ? That's the part I find fishy.

    I'm putting my bottom dollar on The Dark Below still

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Not necessarily. You're reading it as "Heroes (who won against the) Storm", when it's "Heroes (who've fought danger previously and now face it again in the) Storm"
    There's also no indication of who the "Heroes" are.

    Think of it this way, if the box art for the Heroes of the Storm expansion was Illidan, flanked by Turalyon and Alleria standing on a cliff looking at an endless army of demonic creatures while Abyssals and infernals rain from the dark, lightning filled sky... would the title make a bit more sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    No, it wouldn't, because the title "Heroes of the Storm" implies that these so-called heroes are either made by whatever the "storm" is, or are actual heroes fighting for the titular storm. It does NOT imply "pre-existing heroes fighting against the storm" at all.
    What these guys said. Well put. People are afraid of the title as they can't make sense of it. But it was the same with Cataclysm and MoP.

    'Cataclysm? What the heck is that? Its not befitting of a WoW expansion to only have one word in the name! Plus, the Shattering already happened Blizzard, come on!'

    'Mists of Pandaria, seriously? Is this Kung Fu panda now with fluffy little names? It's supposed to have a big menacing title to show the seriousness of the situation!'




    What I keep saying is that you don't know what Blizzard has in store. I'm telling you that once they amaze you with an epic and action-packed trailer, not only will the name make perfect sense, but it'll probably feel awesome, too.

    I can already hear Metzen at the opening ceremony (although the real version would be a ton better than what I say below):

    'A big storm is coming guys. We've been through it all. We've fought Illidan; pushed back the scourge of the Lich King; persisted through the breaking of the world. Last time, we went to Pandaria, where we taught ourselves the way to inner peace. We cast off our negative emotions of Doubt, Despair, Anger, Fear, Hatred, and Violence.
    In September, we went after Garrosh Hellscream. Our world was a victim of his Pride, the seventh vice of Emperor Shaohao. But we came together in a time of need. We managed to find unison. We went into Orgrimmar, and we cast away our own Pride. To the extent that King Varian himself showed mercy, despite watching his people suffer at the hands of Garrosh's Horde. Now we are one. Now we... are ready for the coming storm. Let's play that trailer!'


    Then, the trailer begins.

    00:05 All you see is bright green fire.
    ILLIDAN: They've been waiting.

    00:10 The camera slowly zooms out from the fire, revealing that the fire is an object of sorts.
    ILLIDAN: All our victories. All our defeats. What are they, but illusory - shadows dancing the walls by the fire.

    00:15 Eventually, you notice how the object appears to be moving really quickly in one direction. It looks like a comet.
    ILLIDAN: I knew. I wanted to raise the resistance. To prepare ourselves. But you knew only petty strife. You knew only to judge me.

    00:20 The camera pans to the direction the comet is headed, revealing Azeroth in the distance - its four main continents clearly distinguishable. From all directions, green fire is raining down at it.
    ILLIDAN: Now it's too late.

    00:25 There are no sounds, and no music. The scene is very eerie.

    00:30 FADE OUT.

    00:35 FADE IN. Northern Kalimdor, the Exodar. Music is fairly tranquil, and we see Velen pacing about in his chambers. He closes his eyes in acceptance. The walls start burning.

    00:50 Camera follows an infernal 'comet' above Orgrimmar, as it crashes into its walls. Cries of panic.

    00:55 Teldrassil, all is chaos. Malfurion takes a quick, stunned look at the sky before running with everyone else through the woods. He casts a protective ward above a group of night elves, shielding them from the fire. Infernals rain everywhere.

    01:10 Quick shots of different places around Azeroth: gnomes running in terror, worgen being set ablaze, dark skies above Mulgore.

    01:15 Quick shots of entire villages collapsing: towers falling to crumbling noises, walls exploding from collisions with infernals.

    01:25 Quick shots of Infernals rising from the ground where they crashed. Great armies of towering giants forming and charging across fields in Westfall.

    01:30 Monks meditate in a temple on Pandaria, and suddenly an Infernal crashes through the roof of the temple, setting everything ablaze.

    01:35 Quick shots of different locations in the Eastern Kingdoms: Karazhan against the full moon, green fire racing across the skies everywhere in a slow and ominous way; armies of the Burning Legion flooding through portals in Quel'Thalas; the Undercity upper structures razed to the ground.

    01:50 Forests burning, lakes covered in toxic fumes, and rivers of fire. It looks like the end. Civilization in ruins. No resistance. FADE OUT.

    02:00 FADE IN. Dun Morogh. We see an old man with a great grey beard walk around in the snow. He suddenly stops, and looks determined.

    02:05 The old man draws symbols on the ground, similar to the circles of power you saw in Warcraft 2. He then gets up, and begins waving his staff and speaking incantations.

    02:10 A slit of energy appears mid-air. It expands, and forms a portal. The old man, who is Khadgar, backs off.

    02:15 The portal glows. Suddenly, there is a high elf peeping through it. It is Alleria Windrunner, scouting ahead. She assesses the situation, looks back through the portal and nods.

    02:20 Then, dozens of portals begin opening up around the first one. You see men and women step through it; armoured to their teeth. Epic orchestral music begins playing, as hundreds upon hundreds of troops go through the portals. Humans, dwarves, elves, Draenei, and even the odd brown Orc, troll, or Ethereal.

    02:35 Lastly, a man with a grey beard, clothed in steel, and a torn blue banner with a golden lion on it in his hand steps through the portal. Turalyon, the Lion's Heir.

    02:45 The camera zooms out while the orchestral music is playing. Through the cold snowfall of Dun Morogh, until the ground is far below. Everywhere, you see green fire, chaos, and destruction. But in the middle, where the camera just zoomed out from, we see a glowing bright army take form.

    02:50 The camera zooms out until we see all of Azeroth and the infernals raining down upon it. The logotype for the expansion shows, with Azeroth in its midst. FADE OUT.
    Last edited by Mojo Risin; 2013-10-01 at 05:51 AM.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    Why would they only have a pending trademark application in NZ? That's the part I find fishy.

    I'm putting my bottom dollar on The Dark Below still
    this trademark is in the us database now, but I still don't think it is wow exp 5, unless we are the heros and the storm is the legion
    Last edited by jd812; 2013-10-01 at 06:04 AM.

  9. #129
    Kul Tiras
    The World of Warcraft expansion did not introduce Kul Tiras, in spite of the fact that the entire world is being revamped.
    According to Bornakk, Kul Tiras "will not be visible at the start of Cataclysm – something about tectonic plates shifting it out to sea...."
    ...possible hint?

  10. #130
    The problem with your logic: if I remember correctly, the Hearthstone trademark (at least on the New Zealand website) didn't HAVE a "mobile devices" clause or whatever, and Hearthstone will literally be on mobile devices in full. You're saying that Blizz trademarked Heroes of the Storm with a "mobile devices" clause because they might add a pet battle app or something...but if they're going to do a trademark for something so minor, why WOULDN'T they do the same for Hearthstone, when the entire GAME is going to be on mobile devices?

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    The problem with your logic: if I remember correctly, the Hearthstone trademark (at least on the New Zealand website) didn't HAVE a "mobile devices" clause or whatever, and Hearthstone will literally be on mobile devices in full. You're saying that Blizz trademarked Heroes of the Storm with a "mobile devices" clause because they might add a pet battle app or something...but if they're going to do a trademark for something so minor, why WOULDN'T they do the same for Hearthstone, when the entire GAME is going to be on mobile devices?
    I can't answer that.

    What I can say is that I'm not arguing for WoW based on the evidence pointing at it, I'm arguing against the other options based on the evidence pointing away from those.

    Hearthstone won't have physical copies and All-stars will neither have physical copies or function well on mobile.

    WoW is the the most logical of the three scenarios, the one which hasn't got evidence leading away from it.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    I can't answer that.

    What I can say is that I'm not arguing for WoW based on the evidence pointing at it, I'm arguing against the other options based on the evidence pointing away from those.

    Hearthstone won't have physical copies and All-stars will neither have physical copies or function well on mobile.

    WoW is the the most logical of the three scenarios, the one which hasn't got evidence leading away from it.
    What it means is the trademark terminology isn't as clear-cut as we think, and that perhaps the evidence you bring up may in fact be invalid. If Hearthstone doesn't require a "mobile devices" clause, there is no way WoW's expansion will, even if there is some little mini-game available on mobile devices. We're still not sure (I don't think) if HotS is a completely real trademark, and the inconsistency between several trademarks could even be seen as a reason why the trademark could be a fake.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    What it means is the trademark terminology isn't as clear-cut as we think, and that perhaps the evidence you bring up may in fact be invalid. If Hearthstone doesn't require a "mobile devices" clause, there is no way WoW's expansion will, even if there is some little mini-game available on mobile devices. We're still not sure (I don't think) if HotS is a completely real trademark, and the inconsistency between several trademarks could even be seen as a reason why the trademark could be a fake.
    But there is no reason to believe it is All-Stars, either. The only thing people have to go by is the fact that they don't think the name fits WoW for some reason, and that it mentions mobile in the description.

    As I've pointed out, there's no reason why 'mobile' makes it more likely to be All-Stars than WoW.

    Nor is there a reason to think the name can't fit WoW, considering how it could likely refer to the Burning Legion and the Sons of Lothar, which we also know with a 99% accuracy are coming in the next expansion.

    And it is a real trademark, because it is up on the US website and its status is 'Live'.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    1. The Trademark Description

    IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software, computer game discs, downloadable computer game software, computer game software downloadable from a global computer network, interactive multimedia computer game program; Downloadable electronic game software for use on portable electronic devices such as mobile and cellular phones, laptops, handheld computers, and tablet PCs
    Trademark descriptions are very general and it doesn't imply in any way that the final product will use all of those aspects. They are mentioned "just in case".
    But let's play your game. handheld computers??? why is this here? see? you can't just pick and choose. it's either all mediums are 'obligatory' or all of them are optional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Any mobile app they might make about WOW (like mobile armory, possible pet battles etc) will be tied to the whole WOW and not a particular expansion, so mentioning mobile and cellular phones is not about those cases either.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    But there is no reason to believe it is All-Stars, either. The only thing people have to go by is the fact that they don't think the name fits WoW for some reason, and that it mentions mobile in the description.

    As I've pointed out, there's no reason why 'mobile' makes it more likely to be All-Stars than WoW.

    Nor is there a reason to think the name can't fit WoW, considering how it could likely refer to the Burning Legion and the Sons of Lothar, which we also know with a 99% accuracy are coming in the next expansion.

    And it is a real trademark, because it is up on the US website and its status is 'Live'.
    Why are you dismissing the possibility that it could be an entirely new franchise? I've also yet to see any proof that just because HotS is in the USPTO database it's automatically real. Although as I've said before I *do* think it's real, but just to play Devil's advocate this is the status for HotS in the U.S.:

    "New application will be assigned to an examining attorney approximately 3 months after filing date."

    HotS hasn't even begun the examination process in the U.S. and won't for another 3 months. The Dark Below passed 3 weeks of examinations in Europe, was just one step away from publication (which *does* prove beyond any doubt that an application is a genuine filing) and was still removed from the database (for reasons that still cannot be proven either way, though many posters seem to overlook the fact that any corporation is free to cancel a trademark application and withdraw it from consideration at will.)

    *Edit*

    Hearthstone share's HotS's status, was filed in July, and still hasn't been assigned an examiner. HotS likely won't begin the examination process until months after Blizzcon by which point the dance will be long over.

    You are also making far too much out of the word "Live." HotS is not a registered trademark nor has it passed publication. Live just means it's in the database and active whether it's a registered mark or just an application. Dead means a mark has been abandoned, canceled, failed the examination process, etc. Also, for anyone that doesn't know, the entire trademark process is so that you can claim Registration (®) of a trademark. Anyone can claim something is Trademarked (™) as a common-law mark and use it in commerce without submitting anything to the USPTO. Federal registration simply gives additional benefits and firmly establishes priority if their is a dispute:

    Quote Originally Posted by USPTO
    Do federal regulations govern the use of the designations "TM" or "SM" or the ® symbol?

    If you claim rights to use a mark, you may use the "TM" (trademark) or "SM" (service mark) designation to alert the public to your claim of a “common-law” mark. No registration is necessary to use a "TM" or "SM" symbol and you may continue to use these symbols even if the USPTO refuses to register your mark. Those symbols put people on notice that you claim rights in the mark, although common law doesn't give you all the rights and benefits of federal registration.

    You may only use the federal registration symbol "®" after the USPTO actually registers a mark, not while an application is pending. And it may only be used on or in connection with the goods/services listed in the federal trademark registration and while the registration is still alive (you may not continue to use it if you don’t maintain the registration or it expires). Although there are no specific requirements on where the symbol should be placed relative to the mark, most businesses use the symbol in the upper right corner of the mark. Note: Because several foreign countries use “®” to indicate that a mark is registered in that country, use of the symbol by the holder of a foreign registration may be proper.
    http://www.uspto.gov/faq/trademarks.jsp

    Also, the line about mobile devices is much more significant than you're letting on. I've not seen it in *any* other Blizzard trademark files, and I have read nearly every Blizzard trademark filing dating back 20 years. Why is it there? Why is it not in Hearthstone's List of Good and Services? They share similar titles: "Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft", "Heroes of the Storm." Are they related? These are important, and unanswerable for the time being, questions.

    Quite frankly I don't know precisely what Heroes of the Storm is, and given what we know and the evidence we have available, I don't think anyone can draw a concrete conclusion one way or another.
    Last edited by D4NNYB0Y; 2013-10-01 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by mmoposter View Post
    Trademark descriptions are very general and it doesn't imply in any way that the final product will use all of those aspects. They are mentioned "just in case".
    But let's play your game. handheld computers??? why is this here? see? you can't just pick and choose. it's either all mediums are 'obligatory' or all of them are optional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Any mobile app they might make about WOW (like mobile armory, possible pet battles etc) will be tied to the whole WOW and not a particular expansion, so mentioning mobile and cellular phones is not about those cases either.
    Trademark descriptions do differ, however. If what you say is true, then they could just use one generic text for each of their game-related trademarks.

    'Video game software offered to players online.' Done!

    It's important to consider what they've chosen to put in there. I'm not saying it's a final indication what the future content will be, but I am saying that there is enough there for us to draw some conclusions.

    Regarding 'handheld computers' (such as the PS Vita or nVidia Shield), I don't see why Pet Battles wouldn't be offered there as well. It's a small extension of WoW, and they could easily put it anywhere. Anything to keep players subscribed.

    Your final point doesn't make sense. They don't have a continuously updated 'meta trademark' for all of WoW. Mobile Pet Battles would be a feature of Expansion 5, and should therefore be trademarked along with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    What it means is the trademark terminology isn't as clear-cut as we think, and that perhaps the evidence you bring up may in fact be invalid. If Hearthstone doesn't require a "mobile devices" clause, there is no way WoW's expansion will, even if there is some little mini-game available on mobile devices. We're still not sure (I don't think) if HotS is a completely real trademark, and the inconsistency between several trademarks could even be seen as a reason why the trademark could be a fake.
    Dude, the trademark is live and active. It was filed by Rod A. Rigole who files all Blizzard US trademarks, and there is no 'we don't yet know if it's real or not' scenario here. The trademark is there. It takes them 5 days from filing to getting them up and running, always has, as was the case with HotS.

    And again, I'm arguing why it won't be for All-Stars most of all. It being a Blizzard expansion is just my logical conclusion; the only thing we can say more or less for sure (it would seem) is that there is no reason for us to believe that HotS is All-Stars.

    It already has a name and a trademark, and it won't be using mobile devices. There is no need for them to bother putting that clause in there on All-Stars, as there is nothing they need to protect. WoW could and may offer mobile Pet Battles, and that is something they would have to protect.
    "Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. The sun was shining, and the grass was very green. But Gandalf looked at him from under long bushy eyebrows that stuck out farther than the brim of his shady hat.

    Author of: Mount 2.0 (MMO-Champion Thread)
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    Dude, the trademark is live and active. It was filed by Rod A. Rigole who files all Blizzard US trademarks, and there is no 'we don't yet know if it's real or not' scenario here. The trademark is there. It takes them 5 days from filing to getting them up and running, always has, as was the case with HotS.
    And TDB was allegedly signed and filed by the law offices of FRKelly who handle all of Blizzard's European trademark filings and are based in Dublin. The words "Live" and "Active" are not proof of anything, they simply signify that an application has been submitted, an application that has yet to even be glanced at by an examining attorney.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo Risin View Post
    It already has a name and a trademark, and it won't be using mobile devices. There is no need for them to bother putting that clause in there on All-Stars, as there is nothing they need to protect. WoW could and may offer mobile Pet Battles, and that is something they would have to protect.
    You're still side-stepping the issue of why does Hearthstone not have this line in its list. Logically it is more pertinent to HS than any other Blizzard title.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by D4NNYB0Y View Post
    And TDB was allegedly signed and filed by the law offices of FRKelly who handle all of Blizzard's European trademark filings and are based in Dublin. The words "Live" and "Active" are not proof of anything, they simply signify that an application has been submitted, an application that has yet to even be glanced at by an examining attorney.
    IIRC, TDB never showed up in the US database like this.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by briktal View Post
    IIRC, TDB never showed up in the US database like this.
    Doesn't matter, what I described is how the USPTO works. What we have right now is a newly submitted, unexamined trademark application. Right now the European HotS application is more proof of the authenticity of HotS than the U.S. submission as the OHIM one is actually actively being examined. It's still nowhere near publication though.

    *Edit*

    Again, just to clarify I think HotS is real, but to say the words "Live" and "Active" are proof of anything is misleading.
    Last edited by D4NNYB0Y; 2013-10-01 at 11:03 AM.

  20. #140
    You, OP. You good you!

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