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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakotsu View Post
    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.

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    Flying mounts would not kill the game look at world of warcraft, aion, that really bad clone city of heroes. It just needs to be done right.
    The loading screens are literally one of the worst things about the game you cant go 2 feet without loading something, speaking to a npc loading, wana go to a zone loading, want to goto a dungeon loading, want to use a airship super long loading and lack of scenery.

    My god how could you say that is a more traditional FF feeling? The only thing that technically had loading screens was the Fights.
    Way to show your bias from the start.

    There are many reason to do this. One of them has to do with the way you design in general. You ever notice how games like WoW have these mountains or walls up around the edges of most zones? It limits how far they need to render (or hides the limited rendering distance). It also puts a border for when they inelegantly switch zones; like from a red, lifeless zone to a lush green zone with minimal transition.

    Flying mounts? Most games are better without them. You see how divided the community can be about them in WoW and they've been there since BC?

    Flying mounts are hardly necessary in any game, and can be a hinderance to it. Rift and SWtOR may never have flying mounts, and there is no reason to put them in ... same with FFXIV. What do you really gain? Why do you want it?

    Do you see the limitations and expense they had to go through for WoW's Azeroth to put flying in? They couldn't make it work in SMC/Ghostlands. They still didn't do an amazing job, because the textures are still too low res and stretched. I thing there is a place near 1k needles where it looks like they started to update (or tested) and then stopped or forgotten.

    Remember when they added CRZ? People were getting loading between zones, npc pop ups and disappears, people were getting dismounted crossing zones, etc. The one thing they had going for them, continuous world, they broke.

    There isn't that much loading in FFXIV. You go to a zone, you quest/do fates. Once in the zone, there isn't any loading. I don't get noticable loading talking to npcs. I don't even get loading when it switches to cutscenes. The game runs damn smooth on my machine and connection.

    Want to teleport in WoW? loading. Want to do a dungeon? loading. Want to ride a super long zeppelin/boat and lack of scenery? loading. See how your same statements made with bias could be used in the game you are claiming does it right? SWtOR has lots of loading with the space stations as well, and besides picking up a quest or some class quests, there is no reason for the station outside of creating a more 'realistic' world I suppose (docking at a station and using a shuttle would be more pratical than thousands of adventurers landing ships everywhere if you think about it). I don't have a problem with all the loading in WoW; just pointing out you are using examples that are in every game.

    FFX did add in the loading, and it was far more often than in FFXIV. But even in VII, you move in and out of zones, you loaded. You traversed maps, you loaded in the next screen.

    I don't know, I do have my game on an SSD, and I don't notice any loading really. Even getting into the game is a couple seconds, faster than WoW with all my addons, that is for sure, and faster than SWtOR as well. Rift was pretty fast iirc.

    So basically, there is similar or less loading than the PS1/2 generation games, that can be considered 'traditional' to many, since we are talking about more than a decade worth of IP to relate to.



    Personally, I might have missed flying mounts a bit in SWtOR and Rift; but that was a long time ago when those came out, and I've since adjusted quite a bit. Thing is; if I play WoW, my 310% flying mount is a given to me, and in that game, I find it necessary. They make the territory to cover so large, and pack the mobs in so tight without any real path around them (even the paths/roads aren't always safe now), and a lot of them can dismount you ... that you just want to fly over and get shit done. When you design your map to which people would rather fly, it isn't the mounts that is the problem, (though convenience is a big reason), but you have to look at -why- people want to skip over everything, such as in MoP before 90. It seems to be, if you make travel tedious, people aren't happy about it.

    They should feel like exploring, but with excess mobs, you don't always feel that is viable because you end up fighting trash mobs constantly instead of appreciating the journey. Not that it should be clear ... there needs to be danger and surprise ... but I'd argue there is no surprise; it is just tons of mobs everywhere. Clear out 50 things to point y, to clear the same 50 to get back to x. The bane of needing quick respawns for people.



    I do think they should/could combine more ... but I'm not feeling disoriented by a 1 or 2 second load going from one shroud to another. Would I prefer none at all? SURE! ... do I feel taken out of the world because of it? no, personally. Their loading is done well. Clean, elegant imo. The loading screens in WoW and SWtOR are much more immersion breaking because of how it is done ... they both give a full screen change to a loading screen, which also takes quite a bit longer to load up. Which is ok. I'm not bashing those games because I still like SWtOR, and I have nothing against WoW even though I'm done playing it.


    Now if this was specifically about cities ... you'll get no excuses or arguments from me. I see NO reason why the cities are so divided. Why do I need to have any type of loading to go from new to old gridania? upper or lower limsa whatever (lol), or the levels of ul'dah. That makes no sense to me, nor do I see any real excuse for it. I actually almost appreciate the transitions from eastern to central whatever outdoor zone ... but the cities? meh. I'm not upset about it, but I don't like it.


    tl;dr, I like the 'seamless' WoW used to have before CRZ. I don't need it though. And if you are going to have any type of loading, I think FFXIV does it right; I much prefer their approach to the other games. The city separation is ridiculous imo though. Flying mounts aren't needed. Most want them because it is 'faster', but either faster ground mounts accomplish the same ... or wanting to always skip over the world is a sign of a design problem (especially with efficient transportation already in game).

  2. #22
    As much as I appreciate your passion, very few people will read a reply this large.

  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    As much as I appreciate your passion, very few people will read a reply this large.
    You're the OP, if you're not even going to read that reply because it's 'too long' (it was a very well-typed response, btw) then you have no business making a thread in the first place.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukki View Post
    You're the OP, if you're not even going to read that reply because it's 'too long' (it was a very well-typed response, btw) then you have no business making a thread in the first place.
    Is my right to create threads, comment, not comment and read or not read posts as I please. Its I my discretion what I spend my time on, no one else's. That's part of being free.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans nocturnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkeeee View Post
    1) flying mounts would kill this game as everywhere would look empty of players.
    Yeah, cause instantly teleporting to villages and cities doesn't?

    OP: I think they main reason is the engine they're using.

  6. #26
    High Overlord madorable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    I'm not really against this overall but what DOES bother me is that every major city appears to be divided in two. At least let the city be one unit! Bah, I'm so frustrated by running back and forth between Steps of Thal and what-not, I and the maps confused me quite a bit...
    That's the only thing that really bothers me as well, along with the waking sands, I really can't understand why 2 loading screens are needed in that place.

  7. #27
    To sum it up for the uninitiated : nobody likes walking 100 feet and getting a loading screen in a game that, in all decency, should have at very least, the entire zone un-gated, if not the entire map.
    This, for me, was a major let down, outside the numerous other. In one of the starter zones, the main city is literally split into at least 4 smaller zones gated behind loading screens. That is just plain ridiculous, if not even disgraceful....

  8. #28
    Watch this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei0GxMOBztA

    And skip to 8:50, and you'll see why we missed nothing by not having seamless zones in XIV. Or just watch the entire thing, he explains some more about how boring it was to travel in XIV 1.0

  9. #29
    with regards to flights... i take it a lot of people here arent FF fans, i seem to recall most FF games having air ships and they were a major part to the game and feel, sadly FF10 broke this rule and found it a bit rubbish, the game is more like FF12 above everything, hell zodiark gets a mention, if you played enough of FF12, you will find the reference.

    the people that dont want flights are so call FF fans who dont like wow and dont want that feature in it, nothing more, just butt hurt people from wow, now im a FF fan i would prefer airships of our own since MOST FF games have them to control directly

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakotsu View Post
    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Flying mounts would not kill the game look at world of warcraft, aion, that really bad clone city of heroes. It just needs to be done right.
    The loading screens are literally one of the worst things about the game you cant go 2 feet without loading something, speaking to a npc loading, wana go to a zone loading, want to goto a dungeon loading, want to use a airship super long loading and lack of scenery.

    My god how could you say that is a more traditional FF feeling? The only thing that technically had loading screens was the Fights.
    I think you just proved his point. The only lively zones in WoW are those with flying disabled. Flying mounts hurt MMOs more than help.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dethox View Post
    To sum it up for the uninitiated : nobody likes walking 100 feet and getting a loading screen in a game that, in all decency, should have at very least, the entire zone un-gated, if not the entire map.
    This, for me, was a major let down, outside the numerous other. In one of the starter zones, the main city is literally split into at least 4 smaller zones gated behind loading screens. That is just plain ridiculous, if not even disgraceful....
    I don't think this city of yours exists.

    Seriously though I'm really not a fan of it either, but this isn't the first time in the ff genre so really nothing new.

  12. #32
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    I don't like it but I get used to it, I play the game for what it is, I don't gripe too hard on things that I know can't and won't change. It's not the only MMO out there to do it either.


  13. #33
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    I find I don't really have any gameplay issues with the zones (it doesn't take TOO long to switch between them. Will agree with an earlier poster that SWTOR was a nightmare of loading when you switched planets(IE: zones))

    I suppose the main thing I don't like about it is that it just makes the world itself feel LESS like a world and more like a video game. Obviously I understand a video game is what I'm playing ( ) but...I suppose in an MMO sense, I just kinda like the seamless style continents for that wold feeling ya know? I also disliked that about Guild Wars 2 (Tho that game is plagued with many MANY other issues, load times among them)
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  14. #34
    Field Marshal Mekanikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    Is my right to create threads, comment, not comment and read or not read posts as I please. Its I my discretion what I spend my time on, no one else's. That's part of being free.
    "You're making too much damn sense. I'm going to ignore you now."

    That's essentially what I got out of that.

    By the by, these "rooms" are called zones, and they've been around forever. Oh, Karnor's Castle, how I loathe thee. Train to zone!
    Last edited by Mekanikos; 2013-10-06 at 05:40 AM.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    Is my right to create threads, comment, not comment and read or not read posts as I please. Its I my discretion what I spend my time on, no one else's. That's part of being free.
    This post + your previous post means it is everyone's right to ignore every useless thing you will say from here on out. If you aren't even going to try listening to someone who's answering your questions, there's no reason for anyone to care what you have to say.

  16. #36
    I really dislike this about the game.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    I am an MMO vet but FF beginner so this might be familiar to everyone, but why is the map divided up into 'Rooms'? doesn't this effectively make flying mounts impossible?

    It also makes map continuity and immersion not as good. Don't get me wrong I like the game a lot but having to work out where to exit a map to get to the target area is a pain.

    I understand that not having to render everything at once gives a massive performance boost but other MMO's have open maps just fine.

    Does anyone know the logic behind this design choice?
    I don't really have a problem with the loading screens, I see your point but for me after a while I don't really notice them. What ruins it for me mostly is all the invisible walls and zone barriers.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekanikos View Post
    "You're making too much damn sense. I'm going to ignore you now."

    That's essentially what I got out of that.

    By the by, these "rooms" are called zones, and they've been around forever. Oh, Karnor's Castle, how I loathe thee. Train to zone!
    And yet if I hadn't said anything nobody would be any the wiser and I still would have ignored the essay........ Simply pointing out my opinion then being told I HAVE to read it cos I am the OP is insane!

    I have read every other reply because they are digestible and straight to the point, just how I like them. That's my choice.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    And yet if I hadn't said anything nobody would be any the wiser and I still would have ignored the essay........ Simply pointing out my opinion then being told I HAVE to read it cos I am the OP is insane!

    I have read every other reply because they are digestible and straight to the point, just how I like them. That's my choice.
    You asked a question. He wrote an answer. Then you complain that it's too long to read. It took me less than 2 minutes to read it. If you don't have time to read replies to your own thread, why are you posting?

    The map is likely divided into zones because it plays cross-system with the PS3. And because FF14 is a highly detailed world as opposed to other MMOs, the consoles would likely choke and handicap those people on the PS3. Small zones with loading screen borders helps even the playing field. And the world is small enough that it doesn't need flying mounts (yet). Instant ability to teleport anywhere, and a chocobo to ride within a zone.

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Puffler's Avatar
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    Im guessing it uses less data than traditional methods ?

    I dunno just guessing
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