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  1. #1

    Whats with the whole divided areas thing?

    I am an MMO vet but FF beginner so this might be familiar to everyone, but why is the map divided up into 'Rooms'? doesn't this effectively make flying mounts impossible?

    It also makes map continuity and immersion not as good. Don't get me wrong I like the game a lot but having to work out where to exit a map to get to the target area is a pain.

    I understand that not having to render everything at once gives a massive performance boost but other MMO's have open maps just fine.

    Does anyone know the logic behind this design choice?

  2. #2
    In a game that you can teleport to any zone no matter how far without a cooldown, why would you need or want a flying mount? On your second point, the separate zones have been a FF trend for a while now. Since FFX I believe, so most of us are use to it now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruargh
    I'm baffled that something this simple can be so hard for some people... I guess we can't blame blizzard for dumbing down the game any longer, because apparently it very much needed :

  3. #3
    Deleted
    1) flying mounts would kill this game as everywhere would look empty of players.

    2) I can only think that Ff games consist of lots of load screens as you progress so maybe that wanted it this way to give a more traditional ff feeling.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Boshtastic View Post
    I am an MMO vet but FF beginner so this might be familiar to everyone, but why is the map divided up into 'Rooms'? doesn't this effectively make flying mounts impossible?

    It also makes map continuity and immersion not as good. Don't get me wrong I like the game a lot but having to work out where to exit a map to get to the target area is a pain.

    I understand that not having to render everything at once gives a massive performance boost but other MMO's have open maps just fine.

    Does anyone know the logic behind this design choice?

    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkeeee View Post
    1) flying mounts would kill this game as everywhere would look empty of players.

    2) I can only think that Ff games consist of lots of load screens as you progress so maybe that wanted it this way to give a more traditional ff feeling.

    Flying mounts would not kill the game look at world of warcraft, aion, that really bad clone city of heroes. It just needs to be done right.
    The loading screens are literally one of the worst things about the game you cant go 2 feet without loading something, speaking to a npc loading, wana go to a zone loading, want to goto a dungeon loading, want to use a airship super long loading and lack of scenery.

    My god how could you say that is a more traditional FF feeling? The only thing that technically had loading screens was the Fights.

  5. #5
    I gather the various zones were originally joined together into much larger "mega zones" in the original FF14, and apparently the players didn't like this much. I suspect the decision to split the zones up was prolly a desire to harken a bit more to wow...but I feel they did the spilt very strange, so instead of being zones in a continuous world...yeah OP is right, they're basically like separate rooms.

    I really think I'd prefer if the world was continuous like a WoW continent, at least when it makes sense
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
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  6. #6
    Field Marshal Xiorin's Avatar
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    I played a lot of FFXI and it was just like this. Had to load every zone so I'm pretty use to it. It would have really surprised me if they hadn't divided the world up into zones. I don't see it as a big deal but I don't have long load times.

    Cities were divided in 11 as well, except it was usually 3 or 4 zones to a city, not just 2.

  7. #7
    Doesn't really bother me at all. Some MMOs are completely seamless, others aren't. I've played games from both categories, and it only really annoys me if the zones are small. They aren't in Final Fantasy, so it's kind of a non-issue for me. It doesn't necessarily make flying mounts impossible, but I hope that they don't put them in-game. There's not really a reason for them, particularly when you can just teleport almost anywhere.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakotsu View Post
    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.
    It has nothing to do with programmers being "sub-par." In 1.0 the areas were seamless, and it restricted the amount of detail that can be put into such a zone, on top of zone differinces, like going from North Shroud to snowy Coerthas, are easier to do with zone breaks.
    1.0 maps were basically loops of paths, and confusing and aggravating to navigate. "Oh, your target is right there, but it's up a cliff and you have to run 2 loops south and then a loop east and then back north"

  9. #9
    I played FFXI for a long time, so I'm used to it.

    It's not a game breaker and it results in a higher quality game (visually) than others that have seemless worlds.

    This game doesn't need flying mounts with the Teleport feature, and heaven forbid you actually have to work to find out what you're supposed to do for a quest instead of the game telling you exactly what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it /GASP! preposterous....

  10. #10
    Cutscenes are way more of an issue for me than zone loading screens are.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Arkenaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I played FFXI for a long time, so I'm used to it.

    It's not a game breaker and it results in a higher quality game (visually) than others that have seemless worlds.

    This game doesn't need flying mounts with the Teleport feature, and heaven forbid you actually have to work to find out what you're supposed to do for a quest instead of the game telling you exactly what you're supposed to do and how you're supposed to do it /GASP! preposterous....
    Wait what? Who was talking about quests? Besides, this game has some of the easiest questing I've ever seen, it pretty much does tell you exactly what to do and how to do it.


  12. #12
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Seamless worlds are nice but in most cases not worth the time to develop. Not many new MMOs do it; GW2, for example, has the same loaded areas.

    Also consider that PS3 players share this world. I don't think the PS3 would have been able to handle it seamless.

  13. #13
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    As aikoyamamoto said, this game is played on PS3, which couldn't handle a completely open world. Hell, very few high-end computers could handle this world if it was completely open. It's fucking massive, and very densely populated with NPCs, objects, and monsters. And trees. There must be 50 billion trees in Eorzea...

    As for flying mounts, we as a community didn't want them anyway. Part of the Final Fantasy atmosphere has always been that flight is a huge fucking deal. You'll see this in your story quests, when you put your ass on the line time and time again just to save one airship.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakotsu View Post
    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Flying mounts would not kill the game look at world of warcraft, aion, that really bad clone city of heroes. It just needs to be done right.
    The loading screens are literally one of the worst things about the game you cant go 2 feet without loading something, speaking to a npc loading, wana go to a zone loading, want to goto a dungeon loading, want to use a airship super long loading and lack of scenery.

    My god how could you say that is a more traditional FF feeling? The only thing that technically had loading screens was the Fights.
    City of heroes was a clone, despite coming out before WoW... okay.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Halym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikoyamamato View Post
    Seamless worlds are nice but in most cases not worth the time to develop. Not many new MMOs do it; GW2, for example, has the same loaded areas.

    Also consider that PS3 players share this world. I don't think the PS3 would have been able to handle it seamless.
    I really hate that we suffer due to some shitty archaic console hardware.

  16. #16
    Old God -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halym View Post
    I really hate that we suffer due to some shitty archaic console hardware.
    I'm not really sure if I would call it suffering. A few seconds of loading screens don't really matter to me, or break my immersion. We've dealt with loading screens since forever so I'm not sure why it's a big deal in an MMO. Besides, I'd rather be able to play with all of my PS3 friends.

  17. #17
    Wait what? Who was talking about quests? Besides, this game has some of the easiest questing I've ever seen, it pretty much does tell you exactly what to do and how to do it.
    I was referring to the following info from the OP:
    It also makes map continuity and immersion not as good. Don't get me wrong I like the game a lot but having to work out where to exit a map to get to the target area is a pain.
    The map is a little different than most MMO's, due to each area having it's own map page rather than all areas being on one map you can zoom in and out of, but it's still easy to navigate, it's just not as seamless as some other games, so you have to put forth a LITTLE bit more effort to find out where you're going.

    I really hate that we suffer due to some shitty archaic console hardware.
    How are we suffering exactly?

  18. #18
    My problem is just that the load screens still seem to take a while even on my SSD. Not sure if it's not installed correctly on my SSD or the loading from the server takes a while, but it does get kinda annoying.

  19. #19
    I have a 3 year old PC and it takes less than 5 seconds so not that big of a deal to me. At least its not as bad as SWTOR where you loaded 3-4 times just to get from one planet to the next.

    All in all it is one of those things that makes it feel like an FF MMO imo.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakotsu View Post
    the programmers arent that great for the FF XIV game thats why, they were sub par.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Flying mounts would not kill the game look at world of warcraft, aion, that really bad clone city of heroes. It just needs to be done right.
    The loading screens are literally one of the worst things about the game you cant go 2 feet without loading something, speaking to a npc loading, wana go to a zone loading, want to goto a dungeon loading, want to use a airship super long loading and lack of scenery.

    My god how could you say that is a more traditional FF feeling? The only thing that technically had loading screens was the Fights.
    Way to show your bias from the start.

    There are many reason to do this. One of them has to do with the way you design in general. You ever notice how games like WoW have these mountains or walls up around the edges of most zones? It limits how far they need to render (or hides the limited rendering distance). It also puts a border for when they inelegantly switch zones; like from a red, lifeless zone to a lush green zone with minimal transition.

    Flying mounts? Most games are better without them. You see how divided the community can be about them in WoW and they've been there since BC?

    Flying mounts are hardly necessary in any game, and can be a hinderance to it. Rift and SWtOR may never have flying mounts, and there is no reason to put them in ... same with FFXIV. What do you really gain? Why do you want it?

    Do you see the limitations and expense they had to go through for WoW's Azeroth to put flying in? They couldn't make it work in SMC/Ghostlands. They still didn't do an amazing job, because the textures are still too low res and stretched. I thing there is a place near 1k needles where it looks like they started to update (or tested) and then stopped or forgotten.

    Remember when they added CRZ? People were getting loading between zones, npc pop ups and disappears, people were getting dismounted crossing zones, etc. The one thing they had going for them, continuous world, they broke.

    There isn't that much loading in FFXIV. You go to a zone, you quest/do fates. Once in the zone, there isn't any loading. I don't get noticable loading talking to npcs. I don't even get loading when it switches to cutscenes. The game runs damn smooth on my machine and connection.

    Want to teleport in WoW? loading. Want to do a dungeon? loading. Want to ride a super long zeppelin/boat and lack of scenery? loading. See how your same statements made with bias could be used in the game you are claiming does it right? SWtOR has lots of loading with the space stations as well, and besides picking up a quest or some class quests, there is no reason for the station outside of creating a more 'realistic' world I suppose (docking at a station and using a shuttle would be more pratical than thousands of adventurers landing ships everywhere if you think about it). I don't have a problem with all the loading in WoW; just pointing out you are using examples that are in every game.

    FFX did add in the loading, and it was far more often than in FFXIV. But even in VII, you move in and out of zones, you loaded. You traversed maps, you loaded in the next screen.

    I don't know, I do have my game on an SSD, and I don't notice any loading really. Even getting into the game is a couple seconds, faster than WoW with all my addons, that is for sure, and faster than SWtOR as well. Rift was pretty fast iirc.

    So basically, there is similar or less loading than the PS1/2 generation games, that can be considered 'traditional' to many, since we are talking about more than a decade worth of IP to relate to.



    Personally, I might have missed flying mounts a bit in SWtOR and Rift; but that was a long time ago when those came out, and I've since adjusted quite a bit. Thing is; if I play WoW, my 310% flying mount is a given to me, and in that game, I find it necessary. They make the territory to cover so large, and pack the mobs in so tight without any real path around them (even the paths/roads aren't always safe now), and a lot of them can dismount you ... that you just want to fly over and get shit done. When you design your map to which people would rather fly, it isn't the mounts that is the problem, (though convenience is a big reason), but you have to look at -why- people want to skip over everything, such as in MoP before 90. It seems to be, if you make travel tedious, people aren't happy about it.

    They should feel like exploring, but with excess mobs, you don't always feel that is viable because you end up fighting trash mobs constantly instead of appreciating the journey. Not that it should be clear ... there needs to be danger and surprise ... but I'd argue there is no surprise; it is just tons of mobs everywhere. Clear out 50 things to point y, to clear the same 50 to get back to x. The bane of needing quick respawns for people.



    I do think they should/could combine more ... but I'm not feeling disoriented by a 1 or 2 second load going from one shroud to another. Would I prefer none at all? SURE! ... do I feel taken out of the world because of it? no, personally. Their loading is done well. Clean, elegant imo. The loading screens in WoW and SWtOR are much more immersion breaking because of how it is done ... they both give a full screen change to a loading screen, which also takes quite a bit longer to load up. Which is ok. I'm not bashing those games because I still like SWtOR, and I have nothing against WoW even though I'm done playing it.


    Now if this was specifically about cities ... you'll get no excuses or arguments from me. I see NO reason why the cities are so divided. Why do I need to have any type of loading to go from new to old gridania? upper or lower limsa whatever (lol), or the levels of ul'dah. That makes no sense to me, nor do I see any real excuse for it. I actually almost appreciate the transitions from eastern to central whatever outdoor zone ... but the cities? meh. I'm not upset about it, but I don't like it.


    tl;dr, I like the 'seamless' WoW used to have before CRZ. I don't need it though. And if you are going to have any type of loading, I think FFXIV does it right; I much prefer their approach to the other games. The city separation is ridiculous imo though. Flying mounts aren't needed. Most want them because it is 'faster', but either faster ground mounts accomplish the same ... or wanting to always skip over the world is a sign of a design problem (especially with efficient transportation already in game).

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