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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
    Raiding just isn't 'casual' unless you're doing LFR or flex. Normal's have slowly inched up since the start of cataclysm to require a touch more coordination and focus from your average joe. And while I love the thrill of Heroic modes I still sometimes go to an 'alt normal run mixed with puggers' and the awareness/ability factor is just lacking...
    ???

    T11 was arguably harder than T12 bar ragnaros and T13 pre-deathwing normals. Firelands was a step down in difficulty (although ragnaros a significant step up), Dragon soul an even larger step down.

    I raid 2 nights a week (5-6 hours total) and I don't bother with doing everything to make my char the best anymore, I'd consider that fairly casual for raiding normals (and undoubtedly raiding heroics soon). Casual is about how and how often you take on the content, not about what content you are doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Fiana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    And then Raiding heroic mode 4 hours a day 4 days a week and requiring being there without deviation and with everything prepared and done optimally.

    Some people have to get their priorities straight, they can't be both casual and hard core, decide.
    "Semi-casual" is lfr players starting to do normals.
    What you described is semi-hardcore.

    And no, 4 days a week is not hardcore.
    Also raid schedule in the first few weeks is tighter then usual in all guilds. Even lfr players tent play twice as much then usual
    If semi-hardcore players enjoy to play slightly more when content just got released it does not mean that they became hardcore. Hardcore players play 7/7 when new content is released.

  3. #23
    It's a combination of how much time you spend raiding and your attitude. My guild does 2 nights a week, for a total of 8 hours, but lots of members raid older tiers other nights of the week for a total of 16 hours...and we end up maybe clearing normals by the time the tier ends. Part of that is probably that we're "bad" players, but we also kind of approach raiding casually. We do want people to research fights and know their class, but we almost never look at DPS meters or eat 300 stat food and stuff like that. So we're probably just a casual guild, even though some raiders can put it loads of time.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    So much truth I decided to sig it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Made my day, TY good sir.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Hardcore: Raid outside of raid times usually hitting half a day or more of raiding and as much as possible till everything is cleared, usually top 50 guilds type.

    Semi-hardcore:Raid outside raid times a bit, like a hour extra, and then at least 4-5 times a week, this is where most annoying guilds fall into.

    Semi-Casual: Anything between 3-4 raids without going outside raid times with a casual mindset of "Kill when we can without yelling at our bad players".

    Casual:A couple of days, maybe 3 hours a night and whatever happens happens.

    Depends where you fall into to what you are.
    And this is why WoW has gone down hill. I was in a top 15 guild in Vanilla and we didn't even raid that much at all. We had skill just not a massive time investment. I wish the game would go back to one difficulty mode again. So LFR -> Flex -> Medium (between normal and hard mode).

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueobelisk View Post
    This guy knows math lol.
    Yea, but not english... Semi can mean partial, not just half as per usage in math.

    My guild is 'semi-hardcore' in that we are raiding 12 hours a week for the first 2 weeks of heroics and are now 6/14 H. From the next lockout we will go back to 3 nights of 3 hrs a week and aim for a boss or 2 per week. We are only partially hardcore because we don't believe in bruteforcing bosses through bulk hours but in playing well and enjoying the tier over a few months.

    To me, the supposition that you are semi-hardcore implies that you are not a hardcore guild, but that you have core elements similar to them, whereas, the term semi casual implies that your core values are more aligned with taking it easy, but you still make progress and kill bosses. If you will, they are somewhat to the left and right of a perfect casual-hardcore mix guild.
    Last edited by desert-wind; 2013-10-01 at 08:01 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    And this is why WoW has gone down hill. I was in a top 15 guild in Vanilla and we didn't even raid that much at all. We had skill just not a massive time investment. I wish the game would go back to one difficulty mode again. So LFR -> Flex -> Medium (between normal and hard mode).
    This game has gone down-hill because the raids are so hard they require massive skill AND massive time investment?

    Makes sense.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by smartazjb0y View Post
    This game has gone down-hill because the raids are so hard they require massive skill AND massive time investment?

    Makes sense.
    Is massive time investment a good thing? Interesting how the time investment in lots of other areas has magically vanished (ala professions).

  10. #30
    Moderator Anakso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rijn dael View Post
    semi-casual is "we don't raid outside designated hours" to me. What you describe is exactly that.
    It doesn't imply you are willing to sacrifice on the quality of those raid hours. That is just... badness.
    Semi casual to me sometimes do raid outside of designated hours. The two guilds I've been in that I'd consider semi casual don't even have proper designated hours, just a start time and you end when people get bored for the night. I've had two guilds like that, one that went for progression so I'd consider semi casual and one that just raided for fun so I'd consider them casual.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    And this is why WoW has gone down hill. I was in a top 15 guild in Vanilla and we didn't even raid that much at all. We had skill just not a massive time investment. I wish the game would go back to one difficulty mode again. So LFR -> Flex -> Medium (between normal and hard mode).
    since when did you need skill in vanilla. only to move out of the fire?
    O and another thing. to get the best gear in vanilla. meant you HAD to time invest so your comment makes no sense at all.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    Is massive time investment a good thing? Interesting how the time investment in lots of other areas has magically vanished (ala professions).
    It's not a bad thing, especially when you see what circumstances these guilds are doing the fights: they're massively undergeared, they're racing against each other, they're learning the fights. I don't see what the problem is with the best guilds having to spend a lot of time to beat bosses. If you're just an ordinary guild, or maybe even a bit more hardcore, you can take your time and not spend that much time raiding, yet still finish the tier on normal or heroic.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Hardcore: Raid outside of raid times usually hitting half a day or more of raiding and as much as possible till everything is cleared, usually top 50 guilds type.

    Semi-hardcore:Raid outside raid times a bit, like a hour extra, and then at least 4-5 times a week, this is where most annoying guilds fall into.

    Semi-Casual: Anything between 3-4 raids without going outside raid times with a casual mindset of "Kill when we can without yelling at our bad players".

    Casual:A couple of days, maybe 3 hours a night and whatever happens happens.

    Depends where you fall into to what you are.
    So tell me, what is 2nights 3hours per night, that requires you to play at very high standards during those raid times. 3/14 heroic.
    No extra raids period.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Succath View Post
    since when did you need skill in vanilla. only to move out of the fire?
    O and another thing. to get the best gear in vanilla. meant you HAD to time invest so your comment makes no sense at all.
    I had the best gear possible in Vanilla. You HAD to invest SOME time, but nothing close to the bleeding edge guilds now put in. A stable 3-4 night a week guild for 3-4 hours a raid could compete for WORLD FIRSTS. You didn't NEED ilevel, you needed excellent play. In fact the only difficulty in Vanilla was catching up in gear as a new player wanting to RAID, something they fixed in WoW's best expansion The Burning Crusade.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by boonoob View Post
    So tell me, what is 2nights 3hours per night, that requires you to play at very high standards during those raid times. 3/14 heroic.
    No extra raids period.
    Its casual raiding, just because you have the experience to raid properly doesnt mean anything else.

    Dont take skill level into raiding time.

    The hardcore/casual is about TIME INVESTMENT, it doesnt show how well you play the game.

    Most "semi-hardcore" guilds are trash guilds as example hence raiding so much for months.

  16. #36
    Hardcore is pretty relative :

    Certain people use hardcore in terms of skill, meaning gamers do whatever they have to do to get their goals achieved.
    OR
    Certain people use hardcore in terms of time, the more time you 'game' the more hardcore you are.

    In reality it's both. You can raid all the time you want, but if the results aren't there you are still a casual gamer.

    Recruiting players for 14/14hc farm and upcoming expansion, pm me or www.lucewow.com

  17. #37
    During progression my guild is on a strict 3x4h + 1x5h schedule - so according to the "time definition" given here we are somewhere on the "upper casual" edge.

    On the other hand we aim to get the most out of that invested time (currently working on 10/14 hc) - so the mindset goes into the hardcore direction, but people are still willing to adhere to the limited time schedule.
    Summing up a good term for this type of raiding (moderate time, good progress) could be "efficient raiding".

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    I had the best gear possible in Vanilla. You HAD to invest SOME time, but nothing close to the bleeding edge guilds now put in. A stable 3-4 night a week guild for 3-4 hours a raid could compete for WORLD FIRSTS. You didn't NEED ilevel, you needed excellent play. In fact the only difficulty in Vanilla was catching up in gear as a new player wanting to RAID, something they fixed in WoW's best expansion The Burning Crusade.
    You didn't need ilvl. You needed to farm resist gear and crafting pieces for 40+ people which took far more time than it takes a fresh 90 to be able to jump into current normal raids. Yeah, you needed lots of skill. Those shaman and warlocks lolwatching tv while they semi-afk push buttons during Nefarian were so good. The epitome of raid skill right there. Dat decursive for healers when you just had it automatically dispel anyone by clicking a random tab instead of having to dispel in a certain time-frame window manually or everyone dies.

    So skilled.

  19. #39
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desert-wind View Post
    Yea, but not english... Semi can mean partial, not just half as per usage in math.
    My English is perfectly fine. The fact that "semi" doesn't necessarily mean "half" changes absolutely nothing. My example, if you will, was a way to illustrate a point. If you instead take "semi" to mean "partially" the result is still that there is no difference between semi-casual and semi-hardcore because they could both be 90% hardcore and 10% casual.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Tstr88 View Post
    You didn't need ilvl. You needed to farm resist gear and crafting pieces for 40+ people which took far more time than it takes a fresh 90 to be able to jump into current normal raids. Yeah, you needed lots of skill. Those shaman and warlocks lolwatching tv while they semi-afk push buttons during Nefarian were so good. The epitome of raid skill right there. Dat decursive for healers when you just had it automatically dispel anyone by clicking a random tab instead of having to dispel in a certain time-frame window manually or everyone dies.

    So skilled.
    There were no "dispells" or you all die sort of thing. The only thing that came close to that was Chromaggus and even then decursive WAS NOT NEEDED. Decursive only became really popular in the LAST RAID of Vanilla, due to Gothik the harvester. Only tanks needed resist gear. You did not need it for any single boss. At MOST you needed tanks with fire resist for ragnaros in MC, and nature reisist on 15-20 people in AQ40 Huhuran. Resist gear was useless in BWL (ony cloaks don't count as resist, more of an attunement). sure 100-120 helped in Naxx 40 Sapphiron, but that is a far far cry from 40 people needing to farm shit. The biggest "resist check" was actually Hydross the Unstable, with tanks needing amazing resist gear for that.

    Encounters only evolved into the one mistake kills everyone form because of unrestricted mods, decursive being the primary one. Yes class rotations have evolved nicely into something more interesting than 11111111111111111 boss dies, but imagine a boss like say Magmadar in today's day an age

    On normal he'd spawn the adds that need to be killed at the same time, fear, fire volley's, debuff on the tank forcing a switch every x seconds, enrage at 30-40%. For heroic add in an extra ability that can wipe the raid and increase the health and damage a buttload.

    I do not see overly complex boss encounters as "challenging". Fights like Klaxxi paragons are overly complicated, to the point where it no longer is fun. As I said, a group of 45 decent players raiding 2-3 times a week could challenge for WORLD FIRSTS without pouring their life and soul into the game. To me that is a good thing.

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