But as for guilds clearing end expansion bosses, you have to realize that classic had a pure linear gear progression system that basically required you to acquire previous tier before getting new tier, and they were also 40man raids, and TBC also had a linear gear progression system until the Sunwell was released and vendors were unlocked, and even then I'm not sure how easy it was to upgrade and/or how many upgrades you could get as I was extremely busy once the Sunwell patch came out.
I'm sure many players capable of clearing BWL/AQ40/Naxx 40 were stuck with the "MC Curse" where their guild just stayed in MC, and Vael in BWL was known as the "guild killer" for a very long time for many guilds that attempted BWL.
http://i5.minus.com/iT9gBOC94PbmU.jpgNON SINE DIIS ANIMOSUS INFANS
Global guild rankings: http://www.loyogou.com/game/wow/ladd...ldLadders.html
So it seems that most of the replies here are saying that the competition in the 25 man race is the same as it was in ICC 25 heroic?
Remember in WOLTK 25 man raiding was the pinnacle, it was where all your top guilds and players played at the time. There was no shortage of skilled players wanting to push the progress envelope especially since the sub numbers had ballooned to over 12 million.
Since the start of Cataclysm 10 and 25s were made equal and new potential skilled players had 2 choices now and not filtered into 25 man raiding because it was the only way to go. Now Asian guilds are part of a seperate race dilluting things even further.
Subs are down to 7.7 million and everyone is saying the competition for WFs is the same?
Can someone explain to me what I am not grasping?
The fact that 25M have lost numbers beacuse it's no longer absolutely necessary? I was in a regular 10man guild during ICC, who managed to clear 12/12 HC by the end of it (a week or two after 4.0 hit IIRC), but we still had to go find pugs to do 25N/HC in order to get the best gear. It was even worse during ToC since it required juggling 4 lockouts (and we were 3-nights per week raiders).
We were thrilled when Cata hit and we could obtain the best gear for our classes without sacrificing one or more raid nights to pugging 25mans.
Now we have all our class mechanics, resource management and bosses with 10 different abilities and 2-3 phases to memorize. There's a reason why it takes more time to learn.
You're saying that the skill cap is so high these days that guilds have to spend so much more time working on bosses because they're harder to learn, that's why they raid more.
I'd say you're both wrong. Assuming all other parts are equal raiding more will almost always result in killing a boss faster than not raiding, so if you want to kill a boss faster, spend more time on it.
That's why they raid more.
The races are often predictable, but I'm overwhelmingly blinded by the OP bias. Truth is far less people want to spend absurd amounts of time just to even consider competing for firsts.
I tend to post primarily in Recent Forum Posts from the main page.
If I don't reply back to you in a thread, don't get overly offended as it is solely a consequence of my laziness and not out of spite.
So much bullshit... all those Hardcore Guilds didnt disband because of 10man raids, they disbanded because there are other things in life than raiding and wow has lost importance for lots of people over time.A lot of great players and officers of these top guilds quit because they were personally disgusted with blizzard making 10s and 25s equal and this lead to the downfall of many guilds and leaving skilled players less and less guilds to move into. Guilds like Method have benefitted from the downfall of other top guilds by having a sound management team and getting these top players that wanted to carry on raiding at a high level.