1. #1

    UH or Frost... Struggling to understand...

    Currently I am playing Frost 2H and seem to be doing fine on dps. However much like many people I went to Ask Mr. Robot and after some research I feel I might be doing it wrong.

    I loaded up simulation Craft and it came up with 171k with my current gear. This is a lot higher than I have personally achieved. Mainly I seem to suck at my procs when I am 2H and enjoy DW more for this reason.

    http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...s/runeslikegrl
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...likegrl/simple

    I have attempted to run a sim with Ask Mr Robot changing me to UH and get 152k as my sim dps. I am not sure if I am doing something wrong and would love some feedback on this. I am going to login later an try changing all my gems to Haste and sim again, as I can't seem to figure out how to quickly do that with simcraft.

    FYI I run 120-135k on most fights right now. I know my set isnt optimal, I was a blood tank and this is an alt, however I would like to make the switch and need to be top of my game to do so.

    Thoughts, feedback, any help is appreciated!!

    Thanks,
    Runz

  2. #2
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    There's no answer... You can't "suck at procs" as 2H (unless you're forgetting to use rime procs) because it doesn't really matter whether you use KM on Obliterate or FS, as long as you're not waiting then there isn't an issue.

    Whether you do better as Unholy or 2H is largely going to be based on the encounter but seeing as your overall ilvl is 521 but your weapon is 536 (and you don't have fabled feather) I can virtually guarantee you'll be seeing better numbers as 2H frost.

    Also, stat weights or not I'd still go for about 7K haste before bothering to put anything into crit or mastery.
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    There's no answer... You can't "suck at procs" as 2H (unless you're forgetting to use rime procs) because it doesn't really matter whether you use KM on Obliterate or FS, as long as you're not waiting then there isn't an issue.

    Whether you do better as Unholy or 2H is largely going to be based on the encounter but seeing as your overall ilvl is 521 but your weapon is 536 (and you don't have fabled feather) I can virtually guarantee you'll be seeing better numbers as 2H frost.

    Also, stat weights or not I'd still go for about 7K haste before bothering to put anything into crit or mastery.
    Thanks, I played with simcraft and figured out some more. Moved a bit more into haste and gained some dps, also regemmed strength more. I am going to try again this week to get feather. Had 0 luck obviously.

  4. #4
    Unholy sims a lot worse than frost atm. Look at wowprogress and wonder :/
    I still have to test out unholy in 5.4 though. Just looking at the numbers.

  5. #5
    Keyboard Turner
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    From what I've seen of SoO so far (8/14 normal), Unholy does really well on Immerseus, Protectors, and Dark Shamans. Basically any fight where you can multi-dot the bosses, or adds that won't die within a few seconds. The latter case would most likely depend on your raid's dps.

  6. #6
    UH is also good on Galakras, Malkorok, decent on Spoils, okayish on Juggernaut and Garrosh (normal only, no clue hc yet).
    Basically any pure single target fight or some heavy aoe with high HP adds (like said above).

    Adds on immersius got no hp it's not that great there plus the spec has low burst and boss dies within seconds each phase (and going faster and faster) making diseases ticks so few times it's very frustrating.

    Overall UH doesn't sim lower it just requires "extreme" gear to be competitive (forget it without cd trinket because garry + uf is MAJOR for like 4 times instead of 2 per fight) and very specific fight.

  7. #7
    sims may be showing frost over unholy but actual raid performance from raidbots (all parses) seems to be showing Unholy way way better than frost in nearly all settings.
    (UH 5th in 25N versus Frost 18th, and i think UH 10th in 25H versus Frost at 18th) as an example.

    Granted that's one data point - don't take it as gospel (the same way sims shouldn't be seen as infallible)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    sims may be showing frost over unholy but actual raid performance from raidbots (all parses) seems to be showing Unholy way way better than frost in nearly all settings.
    (UH 5th in 25N versus Frost 18th, and i think UH 10th in 25H versus Frost at 18th) as an example.

    Granted that's one data point - don't take it as gospel (the same way sims shouldn't be seen as infallible)
    I saw that, its part why I was asking. I wonder if that is just do to higher gear players not changing to frost or if UH is just higher dps in general.

  9. #9
    Wait until more people get their 4 piece and both trinkets.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by scabobos View Post
    Wait until more people get their 4 piece and both trinkets.
    Are you saying this will move Unholy up or down?

  11. #11
    Field Marshal shells's Avatar
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    The "best spec" is the spec you play best. If you are going to sim yourself make sure you are applying scale factors for mastery/crit/haste. Then change the fight type and compare the numbers. This will give a more accurate understanding of the stat priority for your item level. If you just accept the defaults in everything your numbers are going to be skewed.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    Are you saying this will move Unholy up or down?
    it will move dw up

  13. #13
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    If your relative ilvl is higher than that of your 2H weapon and/or the encounter caters towards multidotting/pets/low uptime on target - Unholy

    If your relative ilvl is far lower than that of your 2H weapon (e.g. my weapon is 567, average ilvl 553) and the encounter is single-target/patchwerk with high uptime or adds that die quickly - 2H frost.

    Galakras/Thok's trinkets are an amazing combo but you can also get away with Skeer/Thok as Unholy and go with a high str/mastery (and low crit) build, re-applying diseases on high stacks of cruelty (akin to festerblight but without the Death rune FeS useage)

    At BiS levels DW sims the highest with the best potential for single-target and AOE DPS.
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    Are you saying this will move Unholy up or down?
    It will drastically push dw frost up. I mean drastically.

  15. #15
    I am also not getting Soul Reaper up enough during the end of the fight. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=2584&e=2935

    Hopefully I will actually get some pieces I need tonight and start moving towards DW.

  16. #16
    with 4 piece and both trinkets... is soul reaper still > howling blast? Find that hard to believe

  17. #17
    High Overlord Lamperouqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scabobos View Post
    with 4 piece and both trinkets... is soul reaper still > howling blast? Find that hard to believe
    SR gets outscaled by HB at 141,934 AP with a 574 main hand and 100% mastery.

    Thanks Mendenbarr for the math. Replace the 16541.5 at the beginning with your own average main hand weapon damage to calculate at what AP value HB overtakes SR for your weapon at 100% mastery. You can also change the mastery value (the 2 at the very end stands for 2*HB damage = 100% mastery).

    Edit: Editing this post which previously had just an AP value from the top of my head on it and to make a WA for it, but this is dynamic, depending on both your AP and mastery values. Basically you would need to track your own mastery and AP values in combat and make a conclusion based on this formula, BUT! There is an addon that can do this for you. Kuren said he implemented this formula into DKDiseases around a week ago. I haven't tried it out myself yet, though.
    Last edited by Lamperouqe; 2013-10-03 at 09:29 PM.

  18. #18
    WA? Sorry not familiar with that acronym.

  19. #19
    High Overlord Lamperouqe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runzlikegirl View Post
    WA? Sorry not familiar with that acronym.
    WeakAuras.

  20. #20

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