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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    well forbes is known for there fake publications, especially when it comes to business articles.
    LOL I live in France and your article is utter bullshit. It's borderline racist tbh, you should edit. 12 weeks of vacation? lmao it's 5. 18h per week? LOL it never goes under 35 (and I'm taking into account state workers) for a full time job.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    LOL I live in France and your article is utter bullshit. It's borderline racist tbh, you should edit. 12 weeks of vacation? lmao it's 5. 18h per week? LOL it never goes under 35 (and I'm taking into account state workers) for a full time job.
    Sweden apparently got 16 weeks vacation aswell. Somebody need to let the swedes know since we get 25 days vacation per year currently.
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  3. #43
    High Overlord dyzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faladrath View Post
    I'm glad to see you think All of Europe has the same amounts of work hours in a week, they don't.. Nor do I believe any hardcore US raider works 50h+ during progression.
    I did during Vanilla/BC/WotLK

  4. #44
    Probably just all comes down to benefits, in Europe you can survive quite easily without a job for at least a little while, and jobs tend to give you enough money to save up a little. That on-top of quite good laws regarding holidays means you can sustain the life style much easier.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Euros don't work (irl) nearly as much.

    32 vs. 50+ hour work weeks = lots more time for progression.
    only few countries work 32 hours a week, where i live the normal working contract (if you are lucky enough to get one) is 40h/w but most of people work on saturday too (making it 48-50)
    for example i work 65h/w on average and it's pretty common to go above 50

    this is a graph with the average annual hours of different countries (and i bet there are a lot of unreported hours to add on a lot of EU countries)
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    32 hours is definitely not a full time job. In Denmark a full time job is 37 hours, normally with weekends off. Europeans have way more vacation, holidays and most rich EU countries have good social security, meaning you don't have to work your ass off, just so you can afford to go to the doctor or the hospital for instance. You simply don't have to work nearly as much to maintain a living and you have way more benefits.

    Add to that, we are indeed comparing the entire EU to US and Canada.

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    How does that adds up? 25 hours per week is a part time job, 16 hours is more like a student job. I read the article and simply don't know where they get those numbers. I mean, maybe if you take the average of a whole country's adult population and then take the average - adding in those who do not have a job. Cause otherwise those numbers just aren't serious.
    It's possible that the average insert country here DOES have a part-time job.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxigen View Post
    Euros don't work (irl) nearly as much.

    32 vs. 50+ hour work weeks = lots more time for progression.
    I wish buddy. 40 hours per week is the norm here. 9 to 5 is normal in the US right so kinda the same. The difference could instead be in vacation days, but then Europeans are also better in games like Starcraft where it's more of a constant competition instead of a short progression period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Sweden apparently got 16 weeks vacation aswell. Somebody need to let the swedes know since we get 25 days vacation per year currently.
    Sweden do not get 16 weeks. Teachers get a lot of vacation since students get around 2.5 months of break during summer and a bit less then 1 month during winter, but no-one else I can think off. Most people I know get around 3-5 weeks in total.
    Last edited by Rioo; 2013-10-02 at 01:16 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioo View Post
    Sweden do not get 16 weeks.
    Is what he's (also) saying.

    Reporting thread for close since, provided accuracy (I didn't check), Firefly crushed this very general little question:
    Why is there such a disparity in guild success...
    on the first page. Good show. Take the week off, everybody. You earned it with all of this off-topic vacation talk! You're like American Congress!
    Last edited by Confirm Deny; 2013-10-02 at 01:30 AM.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    Only 29/100 25M guilds are US too. I'm pretty sure there are more people playing on EU servers than there are on US servers.

    16734 total guilds are recorded for Immerseus. Only 6588 are from the US.
    There are about as many EU players as US players.

    We're just simply better at being heroic raiders.
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  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayden54 View Post
    It's possible that the average insert country here DOES have a part-time job.
    But that's not what we were talking about though. I mean, we're talking full time jobs and how much time Europeans spend on a full time job in comparison to Americans/Canadians. In that context, it makes sense that the average American with a full time job will have less time to raid than an average European. Nobody will argue, that a person with a part time job, will have even more time. But we're talking full time jobs here.

    37 hours per week is the standard in Denmark and only people who work in the private sector, will work upwards 50 hours. But that's the people making the really good money though and they're not likely to be your average gamer in the first place.

    Students get paid to study, they don't pay as they do in the US. So even though you won't have a lot of money while studying, you can still manage without a job. Granted, most students do have a student job but they still have a lot more time on their hands.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Danishgirl View Post
    Students get paid to study, they don't pay as they do in the US. So even though you won't have a lot of money while studying, you can still manage without a job. Granted, most students do have a student job but they still have a lot more time on their hands.
    You just made me realise that US players have so many more kids than EU players do. That's very amusing to me.
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  12. #52
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    LOL I live in France and your article is utter bullshit. It's borderline racist tbh, you should edit. 12 weeks of vacation? lmao it's 5. 18h per week? LOL it never goes under 35 (and I'm taking into account state workers) for a full time job.
    Eh bien, vous devez certainement representer l'ensemble de l'effectif moyen du pays de France. Je suis content que vous etiez en mesure de sauvegarder votre message aux articles actualy situees comme je le faisais.
    etre un francophone canadien-français. la seule bigoterie je peux peut-etre voir dans ce fil est vous faites hypothese et accusez-moi que je ne suis pas français moi-meme. Je pense que vous devriez modifier cela.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamran View Post
    LOL I live in France and your article is utter bullshit. It's borderline racist tbh, you should edit. 12 weeks of vacation? lmao it's 5. 18h per week? LOL it never goes under 35 (and I'm taking into account state workers) for a full time job.
    here is another document full of facts comparing Full time employment. which is not the average of all workers in either countries but still backs up my point.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/avera...e-world-2013-8
    Last edited by cyqu; 2013-10-02 at 05:21 AM.
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  13. #53
    Euros are the Ubermensch. Being the greatest at everything just comes naturally to 'em.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    There are about 50% more 10 man guilds i EU than US.
    In EU about 93% of guilds are 10 man while that number is closer to 89% on US.
    6% of US guilds are in heroic content compared to 10% of EU guilds.
    151 US 25 man guilds are in heroic content and 258 10 man guilds. That means 10 man guilds are 63% of the heroic guilds in US.
    In EU there are 238 25 man guilds in heroic content and 786 10 man guilds. That means 10 man guilds are 77% of the heroic guilds in EU.

    Drawing a logical conclusion out of this you can with a large probability say that

    1. There are more raiders in EU than US
    2. Relatively, US gravitate more to 25 man compared to EU.
    3. Relatively, the heroic guilds graduate even more to 25 man in US than mentioned above.
    4. Overall EU guilds are more hardcore with raiding
    5. 10 man is more accepted as heroic raiding in EU.

    24.8% of 10 man guilds in heroic content are from the US. Which corresponds quite well with the 23% mentioned in OP.
    A very simple explanation to this is that in USA most people generally speak a form of the English language whereas in Europe the primary languages spoken are more diverse. And it is easier to make a 10m heroic raiding guild in such a case. Case in point being Paragon.
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  15. #55
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    I would be interested in seeing some real data about the average player age of the top 100 guilds in both U.S. and Europe. My impression is that it would skew a bit older in EU which might have an effect on guild stability as well as how well the guild works together and everything that comes out of that. It may be nothing at all but it's something that might be enlightening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyqu View Post
    Eh bien, vous devez certainement representer l'ensemble de l'effectif moyen du pays de France. Je suis content que vous etiez en mesure de sauvegarder votre message aux articles actualy situees comme je le faisais.
    etre un francophone canadien-français. la seule bigoterie je peux peut-etre voir dans ce fil est vous faites hypothese et accusez-moi que je ne suis pas français moi-meme. Je pense que vous devriez modifier cela.
    For future reference MMO-C is an English language web site so please post in English. Your post history shows you can so please do. Thanks.

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    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-10-02 at 04:36 AM.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by cFortyfive View Post
    I'd go for Asia being about equal to Europe/cis in overall competitive gaming. The na region is just lacking behind - I still think it's mostly cultural differences and lack of dedication.
    i'd argue that its not a lack of dedication, but the dedication isn't here for MMORPGS specifically.
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  17. #57
    You are looking to far into this.

    There are more hardcore raiders in EU because Northern Europe is a place where you stay indoors for the majority of the year, in door activities are preferred over going out, whose to blame them? Its - all the time, raining and snowing non-stop in some cases.

    I am from Greece where we have a normal weather..Warm Spring/Hot summer/Rainy-Cold Autumn/Cold Winter, i went to Sweden for 10 days, it was literally raining for 10 days non-stop while snowing sometimes in between and slowing down now and then but it was raining NON-STOP.

    Who would want to be outside when it god damn rains 24/7 or snows?

    There is a reason most top guilds are Scandinavian/German/Russian populated its because they stay inside a lot, they look at games as main to only activity and they are just good at them.

    Stop saying people work less, this is such false information, god knows from where people get them.

    Not all Americans work as long, not all Europeans work as long, minimum work hours in Greece is 40 hours for a full job, no students and similar bullshit jobs.. and for the last 3-5 years it has been over 50 cause people hire people with the logic "We know you are desperate, either you work extra hours or we find someone else".

    Saying "Europeans" work less is dumb, North Europe is too cold for outdoor activities therefor people stay inside and play games, they dedicate a lot of time and become really dedicated/good at them.
    Last edited by potis; 2013-10-02 at 04:39 AM.

  18. #58
    I think there are just better options out there in terms of gaming. Consoles especially are a lot more socially acceptable here than the pc gaming stigma of living in moms basements and raiding 15 hours a day.

  19. #59
    Brewmaster cyqu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I would be interested in seeing some real data about the average player age of the top 100 guilds in both U.S. and Europe. My impression is that it would skew a bit older in EU which might have an effect on guild stability as well as how well the guild works together and everything that comes out of that. It may be nothing at all but it's something that might be enlightening.

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    For future reference MMO-C is an English language web site so please post in English. Your post history shows you can so please do. Thanks.
    vous frère fou?
    ok that's the last .

    but i think the average wouldn't be more then a year or 2 difference on average if that, but none the less i wouldn't mind seeing some real data on that. might be kind of neat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    You are looking to far into this.

    There are more hardcore raiders in EU because Northern Europe is a place where you stay indoors for the majority of the year, in door activities are preferred over going out, whose to blame them? Its - all the time, raining and snowing non-stop in some cases.
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  20. #60
    As a state worker in Spain, i work the requisite 40 (forty, not 21) hours per week, plus weekend shifts and, i get to enjoy 22 (which is roughly 3 weeks, not quite 12) days off work. Still many of us do raid in competitive (or casual, as its my case) guilds. It's just a matter of personal choice on what you want to invest your free time.
    OT: Why are there less US guilds? less population, probably not really into competition where no reward is available...or maybe it's just that the average gamer differs from one continent to the other ("child's stuff")

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