US Guilds only 23% of the Top 100 for 10m Raiding.

[Deleted]

1. USA 1018 Gold - 824 Silver - 710 Bronze - 2552 Total
9. China 172 Gold - 35 Silver - 122 Bronze - 429 Total

You were off by 2123 medals

well thats seen over quite some decades, he meant it more in the way of the last couple of olympics that have been around.
where the statement would be true.

[Deleted]

Here's the rankings of hardcore players in general across the world:

Asians > Europeans > Americans

Same thing for Starcraft, EU is considered stronger in most cases than US while SEA is considered significantly stronger than both. Sort of evident by the competitive gaming scene, EU and Korea in particular have had strong eSports scenes for the past decade while US is catching up. Korea with Starcraft and EU with Quake and CS.

WoW is a little different, China has never been up to date on the raiding scene and other Asian countries are a minority compared to US and EU due to many them playing more Asian themed MMOs like Aion.

Also evident by the evolution of MMOs throughout the past decade as well. Asian MMOs are still as grindy as ever while MMOs here and in the US are more appealing to casual players nowadays.

I don't buy the whole "Americans work harder" because during progression raiding at new patches, people are either unemployed basement dwellers or they are booking time off work to dedicate time to raiding.

[Xjev]

US has more top 25 man guilds I think, compared to their successful 10 man guilds. And EU is more heavily shifting towards 10 man guilds. (not sure though, just a speculation)

[Thallidomaniac]

Well US ppl work like freaking slaves, i mean 12hour workdays wtf. Studies have shown that 6-7 hours is optimal and every hour past that your working with only half efficiency. No wonder they dont want to jump into a raid the minute they get home and go back to sleep minute after the raid.

I work 10hour days that way i only have to work 4hours during friday, and those 10hour days feel way too long..

Then again, working for 6-7 hours may not even be enough to just barely scrap by.

[Xjev]

In general, people in the United States work far more than Europeans.

Sco, GM of Method, had to work while raiding, and he misses Klaxxi world first due to his job. I think he also had to cut from his sleep or something some nights lol

[Faladrath]

Or that more of the EU ones do. It would only take a few hundred highly dedicated EU raiders to tip the scales.

To that point I don't disagree, I was talking about why US isn't on top.

[cFortyfive]

Here's the rankings of hardcore players in general across the world:

Asians > Europeans > Americans

I'd go for Asia being about equal to Europe/cis in overall competitive gaming. The na region is just lacking behind - I still think it's mostly cultural differences and lack of dedication.

[Xjev]

Top is a weird word, many guilds dont have the incentive to be world first, but both continents have good number of very strong guilds.

[Deleted]

Does it matter? I always find it funny that people take such pride in what region is doing the best in a video game raid. How do you even narrow it down to a region, is it based on continents? EU has many players from different countires, US has many players from different states and Canada. Should we take it a step farther and find out which country in EU has highest number of world first players, then bash the rest of the EU and do the same for the US? Its a whole friggen continent and we all the exact same species, there is no difference, get over it.

Quite easy really. The top 2 10man guilds are finish only the 3rd is swedish only and the 4-6th is german only.

I think generally speaking nordic countries are rather hardcore about video games. Same goes for germans as well who often raid in german only guilds.

[Odina]

I would also have to toss in that a large part of the US has very nice weather all year round and that you see many of the really good EU guilds in countries that have pretty cold and harsh winters. Being from Canada I can see how this can have a pretty big influence as you are more likely to gravitate towards idoor activities you can participate in all year round living up north than if say you were in FL, CA, TX, etc etc where you can go outside all year round. I mean when it's dark at 4pm outside why wouldnt you rather be inside chillign in a nice hot house :P

It's not the only reason but 1 in many variables that can contribute to the amount of raiders available to any set region of the world.

[Palmz]

well thats seen over quite some decades, he meant it more in the way of the last couple of olympics that have been around.
where the statement would be true.

OT: US won the medal count in 1996,2000,2004,2008 (although placed 2nd because of having less gold medals), and 2012. So no, they have won the past 5 Olympics in medal count.


More EU players playing WoW and cultural differences I'd say are a huge factor.

[cyqu]

hey look i did a google search and it turned up this within like 15seconds

"The average American works 25 hours a week; the average Frenchman 18; the average Italian a bit more than 16 and a half. Even the hardest-working Europeans–the British, who put in an average of 21 and half hours–are far more laid-back than their American cousins.

Compared with Europeans, Americans are more likely to be employed and more likely to work longer hours–employed Americans put in about three hours more per week than employed Frenchmen. Most important, Americans take fewer (and shorter) vacations. The average American takes off less than six weeks a year; the average Frenchman almost 12. The world champion vacationers are the Swedes, at 16 and a half weeks per year. "

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/ste...landsburg.html

[Deleted]

Aha, can't have this discussion without some clueless kid throwing some numbers out there, 32 hours? Come on thats more leaning towards a part time job.

32 hours is definitely not a full time job. In Denmark a full time job is 37 hours, normally with weekends off. Europeans have way more vacation, holidays and most rich EU countries have good social security, meaning you don't have to work your ass off, just so you can afford to go to the doctor or the hospital for instance. You simply don't have to work nearly as much to maintain a living and you have way more benefits.

Add to that, we are indeed comparing the entire EU to US and Canada.

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hey look i did a google search and it turned up this within like 15seconds

"The average American works 25 hours a week; the average Frenchman 18; the average Italian a bit more than 16 and a half. Even the hardest-working Europeans–the British, who put in an average of 21 and half hours–are far more laid-back than their American cousins.

Compared with Europeans, Americans are more likely to be employed and more likely to work longer hours–employed Americans put in about three hours more per week than employed Frenchmen. Most important, Americans take fewer (and shorter) vacations. The average American takes off less than six weeks a year; the average Frenchman almost 12. The world champion vacationers are the Swedes, at 16 and a half weeks per year. "

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/20/ste...landsburg.html

How does that adds up? 25 hours per week is a part time job, 16 hours is more like a student job. I read the article and simply don't know where they get those numbers. I mean, maybe if you take the average of a whole country's adult population and then take the average - adding in those who do not have a job. Cause otherwise those numbers just aren't serious.

[Deleted]

It's been known for years Eu has upper hand in wow due to working/studying culture and welfare to US. Asia again doesn't have so hc guilds because people don't stick with wow for years like people in the west tend to do although Asia has clearly best esports players.

[cyqu]

How does that adds up? 25 hours per week is a part time job, 16 hours is more like a student job. I read the article and simply don't know where they get those numbers. I mean, maybe if you take the average of a whole country's adult population and then take the average - adding in those who do not have a job. Cause otherwise those numbers just aren't serious.

well forbes is known for there fake publications, especially when it comes to business articles.

[dashflash890]

How long till Europeans learn that Europe is a continent not a country. Stop saying LOLZ EUZ IS BETTERZ! Well thats sad it takes your whole continent to put down one country just to feel better about yourself.

[phyx]

32 hours is definitely not a full time job. In Denmark a full time job is 37 hours, normally with weekends off. Europeans have way more vacation, holidays and most rich EU countries have good social security, meaning you don't have to work your ass off, just so you can afford to go to the doctor or the hospital for instance. You simply don't have to work nearly as much to maintain a living and you have way more benefits.

Add to that, we are indeed comparing the entire EU to US and Canada.

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How does that adds up? 25 hours per week is a part time job, 16 hours is more like a student job. I read the article and simply don't know where they get those numbers. I mean, maybe if you take the average of a whole country's adult population and then take the average - adding in those who do not have a job. Cause otherwise those numbers just aren't serious.

Do you realize what you are claiming? Out of 52 weeks that most years have, Swedes are out almost 1/3 of the time? And yes, Scandinavians and Denmark have systems set up like they should've been set up everywhere. You work normally (not giving your best years of life to some faceless corporation), you get paid normally and you live a healthy life. Now, US is just perverse when it comes to healthcare, social security, corporations regulating every single politician, milking its residents for every single dollar etc., but that is another story.

Also, you working far more is mostly your fault.

edit: wanted to quote the guy you quoted.

[intrinsc]

EU nations get a ton more paid days off than USA.

[xfreeder]

How long till Europeans learn that Europe is a continent not a country. Stop saying LOLZ EUZ IS BETTERZ! Well thats sad it takes your whole continent to put down one country just to feel better about yourself.

North America vs Europe = 500m vs 700m. Now we subtract people from mexico and middle america and the eastern parts of europe and its ~350m (usa, canada, mexico (added 10m as a raw estimate)) vs ~400-450m in europe that have acess to a computer that runs wow and can speak enough english to raid in a multilanguage guild. That can't be the reason.

[Deleted]

well forbes is known for there fake publications, especially when it comes to business articles.

LOL I live in France and your article is utter bullshit. It's borderline racist tbh, you should edit. 12 weeks of vacation? lmao it's 5. 18h per week? LOL it never goes under 35 (and I'm taking into account state workers) for a full time job.