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  1. #1

    Suggested Priest changes

    These are some suggested changes (at least the reasonable ones) that i've seen thrown around:

    -Nerf the movement speed of angelic feathers to match body & soul (i.e. bring it down to 60%) & reduce the number of charges to 2.
    -Spectral Guise is now a Shadow only ability, with some appropriate talent to replace it.
    -Increase the cooldown on Chastise to 45s

    The idea is to tone down Holy priests while giving Shadow a much needed boost. Once again, not my ideas, but interesting enough that I thought it deserved discussion.


    Edited to add suggestions.

    From Edx:

    -Put a cap on the movement speed while Spectral Guised.

    I didn't mention the Feather or Chastise idea because i've already covered it.
    Last edited by gestapo; 2013-10-02 at 10:38 AM.

  2. #2
    The Patient Phocket's Avatar
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    Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"? These aren't much needed improvements to spriests, these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy. Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted, also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokoz View Post
    Me: "Ok if its a healer/dps go for healer then dps! Alright?"
    Partner: "What if its a Paladin combo?"
    Me: "Then just leave..."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"?
    You're free to see it any way you want. I believe there's nothing wrong with you admitting that you want to bask in Holy's dominance. For the betterment of the PVP macro game, most reasonable players would consider these minor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    These aren't much needed improvements to spriests,
    You're not comprehending the significance behind this suggestion (re: Spectral Guise given to Shadow only). This means Holy/Disc lose access to it and Shadow is free to choose something else from that tier. This is a direct buff to Shadow. Obviously there are Shadow specific issues to be addressed, but that's for another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy.
    As mentioned above, I guess it's subjective. What you call brutal, the majority would call just.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted,
    Feel free to browse the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".
    I'm afraid I won't be able to tutor you in the reading comprehension department, if that's what you took from this.

  4. #4
    Numbers seem to show healing priests, holy particularly, overrepped. Dominate Mind and chastise seem very strong.

  5. #5
    The Patient Phocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    You're free to see it any way you want. I believe there's nothing wrong with you admitting that you want to bask in Holy's dominance. For the betterment of the PVP macro game, most reasonable players would consider these minor.
    I wouldn't say I bask in Holy's dominance. It's finally to a point where I don't feel pigeonholed into something I don't want to play, and have tools to be useful instead of a punching bag till Spirit. It also is not ez mode to be holy either, there are many timing issues (as with a majority of classes) that need to be addressed in order to have a good cc chain, as well as throughput on your arena team. I have been tunneled to oblivion by 2k's because they cc'd my dps in very nice, non-overlapping chains.

    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    You're not comprehending the significance behind this suggestion (re: Spectral Guise given to Shadow only). This means Holy/Disc lose access to it and Shadow is free to choose something else from that tier. This is a direct buff to Shadow. Obviously there are Shadow specific issues to be addressed, but that's for another thread.
    I understand that it would be a Shadow only spell. However, that would open up Spell X to every spec of Priest, and given that it's a survival tier (edited from "movement based tier") (also, for all classes, notice how most of the tiers deal with one specific aspect of the game). Without this spell, if you aren't an expert pillar humping champion, you can't stand out for more than a second without being cc'd, or chased around and LoS of your teammates. This gives me the ability to actually hard cast (which is what Holy relies on in desperate circumstances). Whatever the replacement would be, Spell X would have to be equally as beneficial to the absence of having SG.

    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    As mentioned above, I guess it's subjective. What you call brutal, the majority would call just.
    Brutal was an over exaggeration. It is somewhat crippling though. Losing a charge of feathers is nothing. Losing a feather and having the movement speed docked to 60% again? That's rough. The recharge time is sufficient enough (although if they added a few seconds per feather, I wouldn't complain) to make sure you can't constantly toss feathers to everyone.

    Losing SG. Can no longer dodge (vanish technically) a poly/hex unless I'm around a pillar and LoS of my team. And if I am, it probably means I'm getting cc'd to DR so I stay behind that pillar.

    Chastise cooldown is almost meaningless. I've had it reset 3 times in a row from one Holy Fire. I've had it not reset in 30s of spamming Smite. And believe me, there are plenty of times where if it were up, it would have won the game. But it wasn't cause it was on CD and the healer was able to top off the dps in time and momentum shifted. The disorient only lasts 3s. Pallys have a casted 8s disorient that is much more annoying (albeit you can see it coming).

    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Feel free to browse the forums.
    I have, most people complain about PoM and general OP QQ. Not doggin on you, just saying that most people suggest changes that are playing against really solid HPriests. When I first started, I was terrible. I would die in seconds. Now, I tend to drag on 2's matches to annoy the other team if my dps dies.

    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I'm afraid I won't be able to tutor you in the reading comprehension department, if that's what you took from this.
    Yeah, mobile version of MMO-Champ is a pain. If I scroll up after typing, and go back to trying to type or revise, it doesn't let me type anymore and I have to restart the app, losing all of what I typed. I do apologize for my general air of douche-ness, I just get very frustrated that people complain about healers. This is the first time I've been able to live longer than the first 20 seconds of a 3's match in idk how long, and I like that sometimes I'm not the target. Meh, this post is long enough. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of re-shift or balancing of a HPriest spells (Circle of Healing is like throwing a bandaid at someone who just took a chainsaw to the arm, while PoM is like a Tourniquet for someone that stubbed their toe), or re-configuring some of the talents/glyphs. I do agree that change is needed, just not specifically the changes you mentioned.
    Last edited by Phocket; 2013-10-01 at 11:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lokoz View Post
    Me: "Ok if its a healer/dps go for healer then dps! Alright?"
    Partner: "What if its a Paladin combo?"
    Me: "Then just leave..."

  6. #6
    Holy is without a doubt in a Very strong spot right now.
    Nerfing the things too much that make them good would call for buffs
    In other areas if they were to compete with other healers.

    Rdruid and rshamans are not that far from holys power and
    Many people even consider druid and shaman to be superior
    In certain comps. Any comp basically that has a warrior or warlockprobably...

    Before the kids start crying about me being biased towards holy i can just say that
    I currrntly play druid, monk, paladin and priest healers in roughly the same ratings...
    Last edited by saltyharbls; 2013-10-02 at 01:30 AM.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Holy is without a doubt in a Very strong spot right now.
    Nerfing the things too much that make them good would call for buffs
    In other areas if they were to compete with other healers.

    Rdruid and rshamans are not that far from holys power and
    Many people even consider druid and shaman to be superior
    In certain comps. Any comp basically that has a warrior or warlockprobably...

    Before the kids start crying about me being biased towards holy i can just say that
    I currrntly play druid, monk, paladin and priest healers in roughly the same ratings...
    Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

    OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kals View Post
    Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

    OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.
    Haha.. indeed i am. It looks really good on the phone and then when i see the post... oh well

    Ot: The changes to pom and lw are going to matter alot. Regarding CC i guess they its somewhat too much with cyclone in the mix.
    That is easily fixed tho by either changing the symbiosis exchange or putting clone on an1min cd or something. ..

  9. #9
    Now that PoM and Lightwell have been fixed I don't see Holy being strong, or even particularly viable, in most comps. Holy was strong because PoM and lightwell kept everybody alive the whole time without ever needing to use any other heals, now that won't be an option, and Holy will fall behind and priests will swap back to Disc. Give it like 2-3 days for everyone to realize the impact of the fixes and things will change a lot.

  10. #10
    Maybe the PoM & Lightwell fixes will be enough?

    @Phocket. Appreciate the reply. I'll get back to you later in the day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    I wouldn't say I bask in Holy's dominance. It's finally to a point where I don't feel pigeonholed into something I don't want to play, and have tools to be useful instead of a punching bag till Spirit. It also is not ez mode to be holy either, there are many timing issues (as with a majority of classes) that need to be addressed in order to have a good cc chain, as well as throughput on your arena team. I have been tunneled to oblivion by 2k's because they cc'd my dps in very nice, non-overlapping chains.
    Fair enough, holy hasn't been good for a long time while Disc has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    I understand that it would be a Shadow only spell. However, that would open up Spell X to every spec of Priest, and given that it's a survival tier (edited from "movement based tier") (also, for all classes, notice how most of the tiers deal with one specific aspect of the game). Without this spell, if you aren't an expert pillar humping champion, you can't stand out for more than a second without being cc'd, or chased around and LoS of your teammates. This gives me the ability to actually hard cast (which is what Holy relies on in desperate circumstances). Whatever the replacement would be, Spell X would have to be equally as beneficial to the absence of having SG.
    That indeed is something to consider. What would you recommend to help shadow out? They're not in a terrible state, just some minor tweaks would suffice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    Brutal was an over exaggeration. It is somewhat crippling though. Losing a charge of feathers is nothing. Losing a feather and having the movement speed docked to 60% again? That's rough. The recharge time is sufficient enough (although if they added a few seconds per feather, I wouldn't complain) to make sure you can't constantly toss feathers to everyone.

    Losing SG. Can no longer dodge (vanish technically) a poly/hex unless I'm around a pillar and LoS of my team. And if I am, it probably means I'm getting cc'd to DR so I stay behind that pillar.

    Chastise cooldown is almost meaningless. I've had it reset 3 times in a row from one Holy Fire. I've had it not reset in 30s of spamming Smite. And believe me, there are plenty of times where if it were up, it would have won the game. But it wasn't cause it was on CD and the healer was able to top off the dps in time and momentum shifted. The disorient only lasts 3s. Pallys have a casted 8s disorient that is much more annoying (albeit you can see it coming).
    Don't you feel that the mobility aspect is a little too strong, given their overall toolkit? Feathers come up often and feather + guise into a fear is just too unavoidable for an enemy team right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    Yeah, mobile version of MMO-Champ is a pain. If I scroll up after typing, and go back to trying to type or revise, it doesn't let me type anymore and I have to restart the app, losing all of what I typed. I do apologize for my general air of douche-ness, I just get very frustrated that people complain about healers. This is the first time I've been able to live longer than the first 20 seconds of a 3's match in idk how long, and I like that sometimes I'm not the target. Meh, this post is long enough. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of re-shift or balancing of a HPriest spells (Circle of Healing is like throwing a bandaid at someone who just took a chainsaw to the arm, while PoM is like a Tourniquet for someone that stubbed their toe), or re-configuring some of the talents/glyphs. I do agree that change is needed, just not specifically the changes you mentioned.
    Thank you for that. I can understand your frustration, however it feels like we just need to shave a little off the top and bump up the bottom to be in a fairly balanced season. Overall I have to say it looks quite promising (TCCY aside).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kals View Post
    Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

    OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.
    Yeah, read it like a poem too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    Now that PoM and Lightwell have been fixed I don't see Holy being strong, or even particularly viable, in most comps. Holy was strong because PoM and lightwell kept everybody alive the whole time without ever needing to use any other heals, now that won't be an option, and Holy will fall behind and priests will swap back to Disc. Give it like 2-3 days for everyone to realize the impact of the fixes and things will change a lot.
    I guess we have to wait and see.

  11. #11
    hahahhahahahaha, its SOOOO funny to watch holy priests come in here trying to defend themselves.. makes my day.

  12. #12
    Stood in the Fire Edx's Avatar
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    Cap movement speed while Spectral Guised.
    Increase CD on Chastise.
    Nerf feathers duration or recharge time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Edx View Post
    Cap movement speed while Spectral Guised.
    Increase CD on Chastise.
    Nerf feathers duration or recharge time.
    I dont think it's a super good idea to nerf telent choices for all spec, better get to holy/disc directly and not nerfing shadow indirectly.. again.

    I see much QQ about the 2 healing spec,but it would be unwise to hurt the Shadow even more for no reason.
    You do know that they buffed feathers for a reason right? not defending the healings specs tho.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    I dont think it's a super good idea to nerf telent choices for all spec, better get to holy/disc directly and not nerfing shadow indirectly.. again.

    I see much QQ about the 2 healing spec,but it would be unwise to hurt the Shadow even more for no reason.
    You do know that they buffed feathers for a reason right? not defending the healings specs tho.
    Perhaps, the PoM + Lightwell fix plus an increase on Chastise would be a start.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Perhaps, the PoM + Lightwell fix plus an increase on Chastise would be a start.
    I wonder exactly how much the fixes to PoM and Lightwell will affect the gameplay. I have been asking for nerfs to priests
    since a few seasons back but it seems everyone else just catched up. Same thing with hunter. They have been flying under
    the radar for soo long.

    Anyways... if the fixes to lightwell and PoM toned down holys healing the only thing left for the spec is chastise thats different
    from other priest specs...

    I dont see the need to nerf it. Psyfiend is already nerfed and turned to shit, void tendrils works against a minority of classes and
    mind control pretty much only works in 2s against a small selection of comps.

    Nerfing chastise would remove holy from the ladders and leave only disc and shadow. Maybe thats what people want tho

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phocket View Post
    Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"? These aren't much needed improvements to spriests, these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy. Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted, also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".
    Why is is that every class that has a sprint or even an AoE sprint have like 2-3 min CDs while angelic feather is only on a 10 sec CD recharge timer for an 80% sprint for 5-6 seconds? How's that fair? I mean, if it's fair, could my MW monk have 3 charges of tigers lust please?

  17. #17
    Those changes make sense and wouldnt nerf them to the ground. I bet even with those changes, they would still be the most represented high rated healer.

    For Shadow: While mindbender(3 min cd) is active, the shadow priest is immune to silence and crowd control effects (not a big buff but would be nice)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Decorpse View Post
    Those changes make sense and wouldnt nerf them to the ground. I bet even with those changes, they would still be the most represented high rated healer.

    For Shadow: While mindbender(3 min cd) is active, the shadow priest is immune to silence and crowd control effects (not a big buff but would be nice)
    Interesting one. What's the duration on mindbender? I'm too lazy to look it up.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Interesting one. What's the duration on mindbender? I'm too lazy to look it up.

    Mindbender is 15 second duration

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Decorpse View Post
    Those changes make sense and wouldnt nerf them to the ground. I bet even with those changes, they would still be the most represented high rated healer.

    For Shadow: While mindbender(3 min cd) is active, the shadow priest is immune to silence and crowd control effects (not a big buff but would be nice)
    15 seconds of uninterruptable burst? Yeah... dream on

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