How many Hpallies go swing heals?

[nightfalls]

According to 25H "all parses" over last monk it seems that we have:

Priest (18.85% disc, 9.05% holy)
Shaman (21.68%)
Paladin (20.74%)
Druid (17.11%)
Monk (12.56%)

Monk will typically be the lowest as their class rep is lowest since they are new and not super-OP in the healing department. There is a certain pitfall to combining disc and holy, because you can't really separate them as many priests do switch (even from fight to fight) but it would also be wrong to just combine them as many others will consider themselves primarily one of the two specs. Suffice it to say I would put Disc Priest representation higher than 18.85% (accounting for those who flipped Holy some places) but lower than 27.90% (which would double count "mainly Holy" priests).

Consider also that when it comes to DPS class/spec representation often classes with multiple specs that do the same role (for instance pure classes, arms/fury, frost/UH, basically any two DPS specs except separate melee and ranged ones) are often lumped into the same population for similar reasons.

We've definitely dipped and I think part of the reason it hasn't changed more than already is just because of the sheer difficulty of maintaining multiple top-geared/legendary/ready raiding alts.

[Verdell]

I think the other thing to consider is Heroic parses this early in are from the highest percentage of good guilds. This could mean that even with the nerfs, most Paladins in these parses can stick it out and hang.

I will be interesting to see what happens later in the tier when more guilds get into heroics and we see a better pool of data to collect from. My thoughts would be that we'll see an even lower representation for Monks and Paladins and an increase in Druids, Shamans, and Discs. It's only logical given that those 3 specs overall seem to be performing better with HPS.

[nightfalls]

The downside to waiting is that as time goes on more and more people will just stay on their class and be "carried" rather than reroll. Early progression really puts a lot of strain on getting carried on an inferior class/spec.

[Aqua]

Hpally in 10 man is fairly ridiculous(not Resto Druid ridiculous, but still very strong).

You shouldn't struggle against any other healer except a good disc or a druid.

Well whad'ya know hose are exactly who I'm 'up against' (Shaman is infrequently swing heals too depending on fight),though I don't view healing competitively, complimenting your partners in healing is far more important, as I said, I heal just as well without rolling for it as mainspec. But as I am currently doing this I do have to work for it a little more when my healing is necessary, thankfully as gear is becoming more abundant, my need to hop into holy is becoming less and less frequent.

[SoundOfGuns]

Holy-Paladins are currently in a Boat in which they are pretty much exchangable in any bossfight, and even my raidleader-self would always choose a Tote-... err Restoshaman and a Druid over a Paladin. Sad to say, but anyone who denies the fact that both classes are extremely superior to all the other ones is likely not able to accept the truth because he is playing either of the two.

We (since i see myself more as a Paladin even though my Shaman gets more love due to his raid being now led by me) are also standing behind Disc-Priests due to the sheer stunning lack of skill, which sadly goes hand in hand with reliabiltity in this case, due to low mana costs and no real threat of doing anything wrong (Since a rotation consisting on smite, smite and smite is very easy to follow). My Shaman-Self finds this utterly amusing though. Either way... i am in the same boat as you. My Paladin is not in my own raid, thus i had to accept when my raidleader decided that - since i offered once to switch to retribution so our Priest wasn't the only one who had to do it - i was now permanently the healer to switch, since Holy-Pala is just so much below the other two examples. You can't do anything sadly, mate, except closing your eyes, bending over and taking it like a man, till in the neverending darkness which is Blizzards collective-intellect, a candle is lid... and this will likely take till to the next-addon at least... At least we aren't the only one, since im sure Monks experience the same.

[Tailswipe]

This is the first tier after 6 years of raiding that I've started to go ret for some fights. Traditionally our disc would go shadow while me and the resto druid would 2 heal. Now with the disc doing 70k dps whilst outhealing me...things have changed. Never felt more useless, I've dominated heals in our 10 mans and 25's before that for every tier before this one, so not having a big influence on the outcome of a fight is a new thing to me.

[Freia]

Holy-Paladins are currently in a Boat in which they are pretty much exchangable in any bossfight, and even my raidleader-self would always choose a Tote-... err Restoshaman and a Druid over a Paladin. Sad to say, but anyone who denies the fact that both classes are extremely superior to all the other ones is likely not able to accept the truth because he is playing either of the two.

We (since i see myself more as a Paladin even though my Shaman gets more love due to his raid being now led by me) are also standing behind Disc-Priests due to the sheer stunning lack of skill, which sadly goes hand in hand with reliabiltity in this case, due to low mana costs and no real threat of doing anything wrong (Since a rotation consisting on smite, smite and smite is very easy to follow). My Shaman-Self finds this utterly amusing though. Either way... i am in the same boat as you. My Paladin is not in my own raid, thus i had to accept when my raidleader decided that - since i offered once to switch to retribution so our Priest wasn't the only one who had to do it - i was now permanently the healer to switch, since Holy-Pala is just so much below the other two examples. You can't do anything sadly, mate, except closing your eyes, bending over and taking it like a man, till in the neverending darkness which is Blizzards collective-intellect, a candle is lid... and this will likely take till to the next-addon at least... At least we aren't the only one, since im sure Monks experience the same.

I don't know why your raid lead would sit your priest or force them to go dps considering that disc has high output and utility. You seem to be under the impression that disc is bad. I don't know where you get that.

[judgementofantonidas]

Is this tier no room for Hpallies to shine?? Making druid go boomy not a good idea for this tier?? I would post the logs to show that I usually am on top of healing chart, but since this is my first post...I can't link stuff, apparently.

this is resto druid's tier. if I had the choice to sit one or the other sadly i would keep the druid in the game over the paladin. equal skill at class taken into account.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know why your raid lead would sit your priest or force them to go dps considering that disc has high output and utility. You seem to be under the impression that disc is bad. I don't know where you get that.

and shadow is kind of poopy right now.

[Clrg]

The actual state of holy paladin remember me icc, it was the same but at least we had more utility and big numbers on sigle target healing, today we have neither of those, we arent "tank heal" anymore and not even close to raid healing like a druid or priest. We are in the limbo.

[Mifuyne]

Atleast we are still awesome.. right?

[Sadinar]

Holy-Paladins are currently in a Boat in which they are pretty much exchangable in any bossfight, and even my raidleader-self would always choose a Tote-... err Restoshaman and a Druid over a Paladin. Sad to say, but anyone who denies the fact that both classes are extremely superior to all the other ones is likely not able to accept the truth because he is playing either of the two.

We (since i see myself more as a Paladin even though my Shaman gets more love due to his raid being now led by me) are also standing behind Disc-Priests due to the sheer stunning lack of skill, which sadly goes hand in hand with reliabiltity in this case, due to low mana costs and no real threat of doing anything wrong (Since a rotation consisting on smite, smite and smite is very easy to follow). My Shaman-Self finds this utterly amusing though. Either way... i am in the same boat as you. My Paladin is not in my own raid, thus i had to accept when my raidleader decided that - since i offered once to switch to retribution so our Priest wasn't the only one who had to do it - i was now permanently the healer to switch, since Holy-Pala is just so much below the other two examples. You can't do anything sadly, mate, except closing your eyes, bending over and taking it like a man, till in the neverending darkness which is Blizzards collective-intellect, a candle is lid... and this will likely take till to the next-addon at least... At least we aren't the only one, since im sure Monks experience the same.

Are you talking 10 man or 25 man? Because Hpals are still incredibly competitive in 10 man, and the reality is that if you're seriously underperforming in 10m thats something you're doing wrong, nothing with the class.

Yes, druids are slightly ahead but other than that hpaladins are pretty much on par, and in fact that slight gain for druids is only really significant in pushing the most extreme content. All the healers are pretty much neck and neck right, if you're being asked to DPS that has nothing to do with your class and everything to do with you as a player - perhaps you are a much better DPSer than your other healers, or perhaps you are underperforming as heals. But don't go around blaming the class, at least in 10m because holy paladins are fine and completely competitive there.

[Xs]

I wouldn't say Hpals are without fault in 10 man, we still struggle where other healers beat us blindfolded. Its entirely possible for us to heal just fine, but compare a RDruid/RSham or RDruid/DPriest to even a RDruid/HPally and you'll see a very stark contrast in the margin for error the group has.

[Sadinar]

I wouldn't say Hpals are without fault in 10 man, we still struggle where other healers beat us blindfolded. Its entirely possible for us to heal just fine, but compare a RDruid/RSham or RDruid/DPriest to even a RDruid/HPally and you'll see a very stark contrast in the margin for error the group has.

So I'm not sure what you're implying. Are you suggesting that Holy Paladins have a higher skill cap, resulting in players of other classes who may not be as skilled to perform better? That's a very arbitrary statement, and I'm not sure how accurate it is - In my opinion, Hpal at higher levels of gear is not that much more difficult relative to other classes, why do you feel differently?

Or are you saying that there is less risk of raid deaths in certain healer compositions that do not use Hpals? If so, how do you get that?

[Tailswipe]

I wouldn't say Hpals are without fault in 10 man, we still struggle where other healers beat us blindfolded. Its entirely possible for us to heal just fine, but compare a RDruid/RSham or RDruid/DPriest to even a RDruid/HPally and you'll see a very stark contrast in the margin for error the group has.

Pretty much this. A holy pally can do moderately well in 10's but a equally skilled disc priest or resto druid is going to be better on most fights.

[Xs]

So I'm not sure what you're implying. Are you suggesting that Holy Paladins have a higher skill cap, resulting in players of other classes who may not be as skilled to perform better? That's a very arbitrary statement, and I'm not sure how accurate it is - In my opinion, Hpal at higher levels of gear is not that much more difficult relative to other classes, why do you feel differently?

Or are you saying that there is less risk of raid deaths in certain healer compositions that do not use Hpals? If so, how do you get that?

I'm saying that if you have the ideal combo in a 10 man, which given current balancing is two of RDruid/RSham/DPriest, compared to a HPally or MMonk combination, you'll have a perfectly acceptable composition with any of the 5, but with the ideal combo your group can be a lot more reckless. For instance with a RSham/RDruid you simply have to stand in the giant circles they create, beyond that the only real limiting factor is Brain Heal, comparatively to a Paladin you have to just "stand fairly close" to each other, to obtain the same benefits, this is innately harder than with the pretty indicators. If there where more heavy movement fights in the current tier we might gain some utility back through not having to put down a new circle every time the group moves, but there aren't. You've also got the problem with EF, where by the nature of how the spell and our style works, you have to devote a lot of resources to keeping a decent number of rolling HoTs on the raid, if the fight benefits from that style, but by doing so you begin to struggle more with burst healing, compared to the other classes who don't have to sacrifice anything to use their rolling HoTs.

The biggest thing we had counter-balancing that previously, was our ability to put a buffer on raid members which allowed us to bring some innate utility, while having our flaws. This is almost not worth talking about anymore, with the loss of EF's rolling mechanics, specially on fights where you're not able to hit a fairly substantial group of people with HR to keep all their shields rolling (and with how the smart heal on it works, its not guaranteed to hit everyone you 'aim' it for either).

All I'm saying is that with a Paladin you have more to consider as a raid group, than you do with the other healers. I've seen it personally throughout this tier, with the differences between our perfect RSham/RDruid comp, which even when undergeared made mechanics that our Monks and HPallys simply couldn't have done. Nothing to do with individual skill, just simply the differences between how the classes heal.

[Koltira]

I find this thread depressing, my guild throws ret gear at me while I outheal our disc/holy priest on 11 of the 12 fights I heal, the other 2 i dps and as we push heroics...im being forced to dps more as I maintain a fairly similar gear level ret set as i do a holy spec.

[PosPosPos]

I wouldn't say Hpals are without fault in 10 man, we still struggle where other healers beat us blindfolded. Its entirely possible for us to heal just fine, but compare a RDruid/RSham or RDruid/DPriest to even a RDruid/HPally and you'll see a very stark contrast in the margin for error the group has.

This is not even close to true. The rshaman is on par with hpally on stacked fights and loses out a fair bit on spread fights. The disc priest wins stacked fights slightly and on spread fights hpally wins slightly. Overall, the hpally can be said to outperform rshamans and is on par with disc from a healing standpoint.

Only healing class we have any real problems with is resto druid, and the same can be said for any other healing class.

We are the second best healers in 10 man, make no mistake. Our ability to blanket the whole raid in 3 HP EFs every 2 minutes is about as much, if more, error margin we can get out of any other class bar druids.

Our burst capability in 10 man is far stronger than resto shamans. Yes, it is stronger, and if you don't know why, you obviously never really put much thought or had much experience in 10 mans.

[Freia]

This is not even close to true. The rshaman is on par with hpally on stacked fights and loses out a fair bit on spread fights. The disc priest wins stacked fights slightly and on spread fights hpally wins slightly. Overall, the hpally can be said to outperform rshamans and is on par with disc from a healing standpoint.

Only healing class we have any real problems with is resto druid, and the same can be said for any other healing class.


We are the second best healers in 10 man, make no mistake. Our ability to blanket the whole raid in 3 HP EFs every 2 minutes is about as much, if more, error margin we can get out of any other class bar druids.

Our burst capability in 10 man is far stronger than resto shamans. Yes, it is stronger, and if you don't know why, you obviously never really put much thought or had much experience in 10 mans.

Raid bots disagrees with your assessment. And one thing raidbots does not assess is utility which both resto shaman and disc(especially disc!) beat us on. And burst healing stronger than resto shaman...yea no. Maybe on par sans HTT, but not better. And saying a paladin is better than a disc in 10m is pretty laughable.

[Theholypally]

I swing heal. I have a 538 ret OS that i use and i was actually asked if i wanted to make my OS an official backup for fights that we want to drop healers for and increase our dps. Since i'm one of the two healers with a viable DPS spec (and the other is a shaman, and shamans are op so) it makes more sense for me to build a dps spec.

Its better to have two OP resto shamans healing then two holy paladins right now lol.

My main spec is still heals, i will always be MS heals, i just have the option of going ret when needed.

[Clrg]

I wish my guild give me ret gear but raiding with a blood tank and a warrior arms/fury/tank is just impossible to get ret gear