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  1. #41
    Mechagnome Arhippa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    Slighty off topic question to the Hunters here that are currently on Siegecrafter or higher in heroic progression:

    With t16 4pc and multistrike + aoc trinkets + hc weapon how much damage on average should be expected from a BM hunter on assembly weapons? No exterior buffs like pot or lust just basic raid buffs.

    If possible i'd like a minimum and maximum range of damage, the more specific the better.
    Not exactly what you're looking for but it's close enough so I thought I'd post anyway.

    Survival with 4set, 580 weapon, 561 Haromm/574 AoC doing 25man. Armory link in my signature and you can find the logs from WoL. We have 2 hunters (myself and another) doing nothing but the belt for about 150 tries in total over the last 3 weeks, although his gear has changed a lot while mine has stayed pretty much the same. Been 3-manning the first weapon for the last 2 kills while we have prepot/lust/CDs and saving 2nd pot for emergencies. 6-manning the other belts assuming people don't derp.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    Slighty off topic question to the Hunters here that are currently on Siegecrafter or higher in heroic progression:

    With t16 4pc and multistrike + aoc trinkets + hc weapon how much damage on average should be expected from a BM hunter on assembly weapons? No exterior buffs like pot or lust just basic raid buffs.

    If possible i'd like a minimum and maximum range of damage, the more specific the better.
    we havent started this yet, we are on thok atm. is next in line tho and im pretty sure for 10 man you need 2 groups, alternatiing cds. if you want to pick what you would kill. if you are not going to pick and just have hunters on the line you need to make sure they kill the magnet. otherwise they wont be able to disengage into the line, or have them get into the pipe.

    in 10 man i think is 12 mill wich is doable by 2 ppl. idk how much is 25 man. our rogué was also saying that he cant shadowstep anymore into the line so we were going to have just the rogué and myself doing it but now looks like we will have to get 2 groups for it.

  3. #43
    We are 5 manning the belts on 25 heroic. Our hunters usually do anywhere between 8-10 mill damage per wave.

  4. #44
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhippa View Post
    snip
    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    snip
    Disclaimer: I raid 10m. The weapon does have 12m.

    Thanks for the replies but I'm doing atm is soloing the first weapon on my own but on the following ones im paired with a beastmaster, however it is impossible for me to have CDs (except feral spirits, but they do 1m max) for every single weapon unlike you guys with 4pc and aoc (rapid + bw).

    I'm currently doing around 5-6.5m which to me is already very high without getting lucky with maelstrom and lava lash procs (4pc thing).

    My issue is that my partner's damage is VERY inconsistent - There have been times where he does as low as 5m, others he has gone up to 8 and even 10 MILLION without any extra CDs or pots used. The key thing here is that if he doesn't do 7m OR if I don't get good procs the weapon doesn't die.

    I've asked him why this is happening and he told me that he can't control it in order to do that required minimum. Right now i'm asking high progression hunters who are reading this: Have I overrated the class on Siegecrafter Heroic (to me its THE best ranged dps) or is my partner doing something wrong?

    (my theory is that he sometimes goes w/ empty focus bar but other than that i can't think of anything)
    Last edited by Aurokk; 2013-10-20 at 06:13 AM.

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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    .
    The only explanation I can see for that variation is having BW or trinket procs on certain belts. With Heroic Warforged Assurance of Consequence I can have BW up for each belt with proper management, but without this 580 version of this trinket it is possible that it could poorly line up and not allow him to have it every time. With those two trinkets Assurance has a ICD so you can almost guarantee it will be up within 2-3 seconds of it finishing the ICD, while Haromm's is much more random and will proc sometimes back to back or not at all. It also could be talents but I doubt he is running AMoC.

    If you have his armory or logs I might be able to analyze a bit more.

  6. #46
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    He does have both multistrike and aoc both heroic upgraded. The logs are private and even if I could show you it would take forever to find a proper example in a sea of 150 wipes. :/

    I can however link you his armory.

    Edit: check your pm.
    Last edited by Aurokk; 2013-10-20 at 07:11 AM.

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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by dfectiv View Post
    The only explanation I can see for that variation is having BW or trinket procs on certain belts. With Heroic Warforged Assurance of Consequence I can have BW up for each belt with proper management, but without this 580 version of this trinket it is possible that it could poorly line up and not allow him to have it every time. With those two trinkets Assurance has a ICD so you can almost guarantee it will be up within 2-3 seconds of it finishing the ICD, while Haromm's is much more random and will proc sometimes back to back or not at all. It also could be talents but I doubt he is running AMoC.

    If you have his armory or logs I might be able to analyze a bit more.
    you still want to have 2 groups for this same reason, leaving it to RNG is just bad play on your part. im not saying with this that you CANT, off course you can go every turn and do good but if you dont get any proc and have no cds for the reasons you listed then you are not going to be doing good.

    for you jetch can you explain a bit more when you going into and the whole rotation ppl involved otherwise is hard to give advice.

    if you 2 are going every other (wich you should) the hunter Should have BW + Rapid fire for every one, while his damage also rely on trinket it shouldnt swing that bad as you are saying. im able to solo it as SV in normal and they have around 3-4 mil i think, as bm is just way too easier, with and without cds, so his damage should be around 6-7 mill constantly. i bet when he does 8-9 mil is because stampede. every 2 he should have that up as well making it way easier for you 2.

    look what someone else post about paragons belt rotation you can see how they line up cds.

  8. #48
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    if you 2 are going every other (wich you should) the hunter Should have BW + Rapid fire for every one, while his damage also rely on trinket it shouldnt swing that bad as you are saying.
    This. Basically I go first solo, then group 2, then me+hunter, then g2, then me+hunter again. I know for a fact he has BW+Rapid+Dire avaiable for every single weapon.

    He is using Stampede on the opening on the boss, not on assembly btw. So I blow my CDs on the 1st, 5th and 9th. I only have Feral Spirits for 3rd and 7th and he has to do those 7m i was refering in my other post. When mine are up he only has to do like 5m not even that.

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  9. #49
    He should be doing more than 5m each belt, and he should have BW every belt, especially every other belt.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    This. Basically I go first solo, then group 2, then me+hunter, then g2, then me+hunter again. I know for a fact he has BW+Rapid+Dire avaiable for every single weapon.

    He is using Stampede on the opening on the boss, not on assembly btw. So I blow my CDs on the 1st, 5th and 9th. I only have Feral Spirits for 3rd and 7th and he has to do those 7m i was refering in my other post. When mine are up he only has to do like 5m not even that.
    I cant think why you would Stampede the boss if you are wiping to weapons.
    Maybe use Stampede and AMoC on the belts where you don't have your CDs?

  11. #51
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlaena View Post
    I cant think why you would Stampede the boss if you are wiping to weapons.
    Maybe use Stampede and AMoC on the belts where you don't have your CDs?
    The Stampede on boss thing is just to keep boss % in check while we are progressing in the fight. I have no idea on AMoC since I haven't touched my hunter in like 2 or 3 xpacs. I just asked ours if he could spec dire beast since the cooldown on it allows him to use it everywhere.

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  12. #52
    well cds on the boss are not need it, most ppl just save their cds for the belt. really important that he push his Rapid fire cd down enough in order to have it up every belt wich is 1 min, it should be fine, the problem is saving cds and not using them on the boss and just the belt.

    stampede tho should be used on belt, as caarlena said.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Arhippa View Post
    Not exactly what you're looking for but it's close enough so I thought I'd post anyway.

    Survival with 4set, 580 weapon, 561 Haromm/574 AoC doing 25man. Armory link in my signature and you can find the logs from WoL. We have 2 hunters (myself and another) doing nothing but the belt for about 150 tries in total over the last 3 weeks, although his gear has changed a lot while mine has stayed pretty much the same. Been 3-manning the first weapon for the last 2 kills while we have prepot/lust/CDs and saving 2nd pot for emergencies. 6-manning the other belts assuming people don't derp.
    This, exactly.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    Slighty off topic question to the Hunters here that are currently on Siegecrafter or higher in heroic progression:

    With t16 4pc and multistrike + aoc trinkets + hc weapon how much damage on average should be expected from a BM hunter on assembly weapons? No exterior buffs like pot or lust just basic raid buffs.

    If possible i'd like a minimum and maximum range of damage, the more specific the better.
    I do 6-8mil as survival, no multi strike, no heroic weapon.
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jecht View Post
    The Stampede on boss thing is just to keep boss % in check while we are progressing in the fight. I have no idea on AMoC since I haven't touched my hunter in like 2 or 3 xpacs. I just asked ours if he could spec dire beast since the cooldown on it allows him to use it everywhere.
    Dire Beast is probably a bad idea, and Fervor has the same CD and provides much more consistent burst. The problem with DB is it is an uncontrollable pet on a moving target (though I don't know how those types of pets work on the movement on the belt). It can and probably does lose swings on the target. Especially if he starts DPSing the first one, and you have to switch to another weapon when you realize a higher priority target is coming out. Regardless, the choice isn't DB vs. AMoC, it's DB vs. Fervor vs. ToTH. I'd say Fervor (30s CD, off the GCD, provides pet focus in addition to hunter focus, which gives high-value Bites). I suppose ToTH can be seen as inconsistent, but with 4pc I imagine he'd have it up almost constantly.

    Between the AMoC tier, I'd say it's AMoC vs. Blink Strikes. AMoC is theoretically better burst, but there's no way the weapon is up for the full 30s of its duration (and is thus lost DPS), and with its 2m CD it'd only be up every...4th belt, I believe, or every other one of your belts. BS is again, more consistent, more buffed damage to your #1 or #2 damage ability as a BM hunter (your pet's basic attack), because it buffs not only pet damage but pet uptime on moving targets. Close call, but if weapon are really the issue, the burst from AMoC every other wave should at least make those waves a joke for your team.

    Regardless, I can see where he'd have some issues with H WF AoC for BW being up each belt he's up for. I can imagine that with its 1m CD normally, he's getting 30ish second CDs on the BW, and occasionally if it's a little late, on his off-belt BW, his on-belt BW will also be delayed, with possibly a disasterous even further delay. If it's 30s between each belt spawn, he can go up at 0s, pop BW, be down on the floor and on the boss and pop BW at 34-35s on the boss, and then when he goes back up at 1m, he's looking at best-case 1m4s for his next BW, 1m10s worst case, and by that time the belt is almost done. The solution is to obviously hold the BW that comes up while he's off the belt, but that's lost damage on the boss. It's all a balancing act - if you can afford the lost damage on the boss, that's what he should do. Ironically, if he had no AoC at all, or even one that didn't put BW at such a tempting timetable to try and squeeze an extra one in, he'd easily have it up every belt.

  16. #56
    Warchief Redpanda's Avatar
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    So I tried soloing the belts with disengage going to and from, did some test goes on flex. talk about dancing on a knife edge one wrong move and you now have egg on your face. Its a really viable strat BUT hella fucking risky
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    So I tried soloing the belts with disengage going to and from, did some test goes on flex. talk about dancing on a knife edge one wrong move and you now have egg on your face. Its a really viable strat BUT hella fucking risky
    Yeah, it's too risky for me... a warlock and I each solo a weapon every other belt on Normal, but I had to do the Disengage trick one attempt when he went down. I pulled it off but goddamn. No reason to be taking that kind of risk, imo.

  18. #58
    Mechagnome Arhippa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    So I tried soloing the belts with disengage going to and from, did some test goes on flex. talk about dancing on a knife edge one wrong move and you now have egg on your face. Its a really viable strat BUT hella fucking risky
    There's no need to rush it. Just take your time - I have time to dismiss my pet every time before disengaging. I used to rush it when we started progressing blackfuse and died every 20 pulls or something due to a failed disengage. Now I just take it slow and I don't think I've had a single death due to disengage for over 50 pulls.
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arhippa View Post
    There's no need to rush it. Just take your time - I have time to dismiss my pet every time before disengaging. I used to rush it when we started progressing blackfuse and died every 20 pulls or something due to a failed disengage. Now I just take it slow and I don't think I've had a single death due to disengage for over 50 pulls.
    Sometimes shit hits the fan...or your your dps on the belt is rather tight so every second counts.

    I've been doing it for more then 100 pulls when we were progressing and boy it was stressful with all @%^$ going on the main platform.
    I've fell down few times but 95% of the time I've managed without any problems.

    One of the tricky parts was managing my pet since it can get stuck on the pipe if it's only on passive...instead you need to send it to attack boss (for instance) and once you're on the belt just put it on passive and it'll spawn right next to you.
    This is obviously when you are disengaging on to the belt , otherwise it works fine.

    All of this is from 10 man perspective tho.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrun View Post
    So I tried soloing the belts with disengage going to and from, did some test goes on flex. talk about dancing on a knife edge one wrong move and you now have egg on your face. Its a really viable strat BUT hella fucking risky
    As others have said, you just have to learn not to rush. I had some moments of stupidity the first couple of pulls as well, but now it doesn't phase me. I also rarely need CDs for the weapons, so I have them available if I'm taking too much time to get up there (like a sawblade causing me to run around a pipe.) There's nothing stopping you from practicing before you pull the boss. While people are eating and such, just take a couple runs walking around the pipe and disengaging.

    All of that being said, if your group is killing it without doing this, don't change things up. The main reason I started was because it became one less thing for some of our less aware dps to be relied on. Since then it's just become easy. Also, I've made sure our ele shaman knows how to do it in case I fall off a pipe and need a brez during a belt. You always want backups.

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