1. #1

    Fix my raid's priest (Healing)

    Hello!

    We recently got a new holy priest in 5.4, although I feel that his performance as both disc and holy is a bit lacking or underwhelming. He's often competing with me (as a prot paladin) and never in the same ballpark as our holy paladin. I feel that some of this can have to do with him not having the meta nor the legendary cloak, but I still feel as if he's doing something wrong and I don't have enough insight in the holy/disc specs to make that evaluation myself. Here are some links to the recent logs of him, both as holy and of disc, I will put in the date as well so the earlier logs we are taking more damage than necessary and his gear is worse than in the later logs:

    Sunday 6th October, Holy
    Malkorok
    Thok
    Blackfuse
    Klaxxi
    Garrosh

    Wednesday 25th September, Disc
    Nazgrim
    Malkorok
    Thok

    ___
    Note: I haven't included some fights like Spoils/Norushen/Sha of Pride both to conserve space and because some of those fights can be rather gimmicky with portals and whatnot, but it's all in there if you'd like to take a look.

  2. #2
    I'd be interested in seeing his UI. I literally see almost no healing from renew in his healing logs. I wonder what type of set up he uses, and he uses to track some of his cooldowns and spells.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Reptar View Post
    I'd be interested in seeing his UI. I literally see almost no healing from renew in his healing logs. I wonder what type of set up he uses, and he uses to track some of his cooldowns and spells.
    I'm not sure what he uses, and he's not online for the rest of the night, but I am fairly sure he uses default raid frames and maaaybe WeakAuras, + DBM.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    It's a big red flag to me that as disc, his top spell is PoH on many fights. He usage of atonement is abysmal at best. I suspect his gearing as disc is likely not correct either, looking at the very low DA generation. He never seems to make any use of Inner Focus either, or Spirit Shell. And when he does he isn't using it effectively (ie 5% of his healing on Thok).

    He's using Glyph of PW: Shield which really, if I could... oh I'd delete that thing from the game.

    As Holy he's taking Power Infusion instead of Divine Insight. He needs to be taking Divine Insight most of the time, it will provide him with some burst from PoM. Though Twist of Fate is also very strong, and can be considered in very stacked fights where PoM just isn't going to be bouncing, or in fights where he can game the uptime (SW: Pain will trigger is, even as holy). ToF is always the go-to this tier as Disc, except when heavy tank healing (then he should take DI) for fights like Dark Shamans (though I take ToF here too).

    As both Holy and Disc, he tends to use Divine Star haphazardly, not really getting it's full potential.

    I can understand not using renew often/heavily, and perhaps favoring AoE Chakra (blue / Sanctuary) but to see absolutely no Serenity spells being used is concerning (Renew, HW: Serenity). He doesn't seem to be using FDCL either which is really going to hurt him. In 10m especially, being able to roll FDCL procs (free instant FH's form other healing spells) into Serendipity is going to really hamper him. IE his spot healing is very weak. He should learn to favor a stance without gimping himself -- ie knowing the encounter and knowing when he'll need to switch Chakra's as the CD is punishing.

    You're better off, IMHO, staying in Serenity in 10m, and gaming FDCL / renew usage blanketing and abusing your level 90 priest talent, and then planning to be in Sanctuary for stacked healing phases where everyone will be taking damage. It's easier for me personally to plan around big periods of damage, but that could be the disc in me!

    Overall I see some serious glaring flaws in his understanding and implementation of his toolkit with both specs. I'd point him this direction:

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4484

    Update:

    Creeped on his gear.

    17k spirit? 7k haste?

    He's just throwing stats around and I'm not entirely certain to what end. He should reach the 2nd renew breakpoint, or the 1st (so 4721 iirc for 2nd bp, of 3039 for the 1st, favoring the first if you use less renew), and dump the rest into mastery/int. I can't imagine needing more than 14k spirit as Holy, maybe 15 without the meta. I've done fine with 10k with the meta, but I'm insane and also don't heavily use renew/serenity and instead, lean heavily on EoL mastery.

    He ignored a mastery bonus on his boots, which makes me nervous.

    He needs to be gem'ing int/spi, int/mastery for holy, or spit/crit, int/crit, crit for disc.

    Also, iirc, glyph of PoM is a healing loss. He should probably change that glyph out for something more useful (I prefer Glyph of inner Sanctum/ Glyph of Fade for some defensive's).

  5. #5
    I am primarily Disc but i have noticed a couple of things from my quick peak at the logs you supplied.

    As Holy
    No Divine Hymn

    As Disc
    No Archangel (who would want +25% healing anyway)
    No Spirit Shell
    Little Atonement

    Mana returns for Rapture could be significantly improved. Your priest also has a ton of overhealing like 30-50% on their main spells (especially as holy). I am guessing their reaction time is a little slow and from the logs it looks like they basically just spam PoH and are not taking advantage of priests variety of healing spells.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Naer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markle View Post
    No Archangel (who would want +25% healing anyway)
    Only losers. I hate extra bonuses to my healing. /flex

    Same issue with HW: Serenity.

    "Instantly heals the target for 12367 to 14517 (+ 130% of Spell power), and increases the critical effect chance of your healing spells on the target by 25% for 6 sec."

    Who would want that.

  7. #7
    PoM Glyph is a loss when he has the 2 set, his pom should be much higher in healing, seems like he's just spamming poh most of the time, he hardly used hymn at all, halo is much better for malorak then DS, i play holy, so won't comment on disc logs, on my paragons kill my top heal was echo, pom FH then poh.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Naer View Post
    It's a big red flag to me that as disc, his top spell is PoH on many fights. He usage of atonement is abysmal at best. I suspect his gearing as disc is likely not correct either, looking at the very low DA generation. He never seems to make any use of Inner Focus either, or Spirit Shell. And when he does he isn't using it effectively (ie 5% of his healing on Thok).

    He's using Glyph of PW: Shield which really, if I could... oh I'd delete that thing from the game.

    As Holy he's taking Power Infusion instead of Divine Insight. He needs to be taking Divine Insight most of the time, it will provide him with some burst from PoM. Though Twist of Fate is also very strong, and can be considered in very stacked fights where PoM just isn't going to be bouncing, or in fights where he can game the uptime (SW: Pain will trigger is, even as holy). ToF is always the go-to this tier as Disc, except when heavy tank healing (then he should take DI) for fights like Dark Shamans (though I take ToF here too).

    As both Holy and Disc, he tends to use Divine Star haphazardly, not really getting it's full potential.

    I can understand not using renew often/heavily, and perhaps favoring AoE Chakra (blue / Sanctuary) but to see absolutely no Serenity spells being used is concerning (Renew, HW: Serenity). He doesn't seem to be using FDCL either which is really going to hurt him. In 10m especially, being able to roll FDCL procs (free instant FH's form other healing spells) into Serendipity is going to really hamper him. IE his spot healing is very weak. He should learn to favor a stance without gimping himself -- ie knowing the encounter and knowing when he'll need to switch Chakra's as the CD is punishing.

    You're better off, IMHO, staying in Serenity in 10m, and gaming FDCL / renew usage blanketing and abusing your level 90 priest talent, and then planning to be in Sanctuary for stacked healing phases where everyone will be taking damage. It's easier for me personally to plan around big periods of damage, but that could be the disc in me!

    Overall I see some serious glaring flaws in his understanding and implementation of his toolkit with both specs. I'd point him this direction:

    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4484

    Update:

    Creeped on his gear.

    17k spirit? 7k haste?

    He's just throwing stats around and I'm not entirely certain to what end. He should reach the 2nd renew breakpoint, or the 1st (so 4721 iirc for 2nd bp, of 3039 for the 1st, favoring the first if you use less renew), and dump the rest into mastery/int. I can't imagine needing more than 14k spirit as Holy, maybe 15 without the meta. I've done fine with 10k with the meta, but I'm insane and also don't heavily use renew/serenity and instead, lean heavily on EoL mastery.

    He ignored a mastery bonus on his boots, which makes me nervous.

    He needs to be gem'ing int/spi, int/mastery for holy, or spit/crit, int/crit, crit for disc.

    Also, iirc, glyph of PoM is a healing loss. He should probably change that glyph out for something more useful (I prefer Glyph of inner Sanctum/ Glyph of Fade for some defensive's).
    Thank you so much! A total evaluation, your own personal tips and a guide to follow it up with, exactly what I was looking for and more! I'll point him in direction to read this, and hopefully the next lockout I'll see some improvements, I'll log them as well and look for some changes, now that I know what to look for (or somewhat).
    Also, thanks a lot for the gearing tips, I hope it'll help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Markle View Post
    I am primarily Disc but i have noticed a couple of things from my quick peak at the logs you supplied.

    As Holy
    No Divine Hymn

    As Disc
    No Archangel (who would want +25% healing anyway)
    No Spirit Shell
    Little Atonement

    Mana returns for Rapture could be significantly improved. Your priest also has a ton of overhealing like 30-50% on their main spells (especially as holy). I am guessing their reaction time is a little slow and from the logs it looks like they basically just spam PoH and are not taking advantage of priests variety of healing spells.
    Me and the other tank has also noticed some lacking use of cooldowns, albeit mostly as disc with Pain Suppression and such, in the start we were thinking he was just getting the feeling of using it and when to use it, but looking at it myself the casts don't seem to go up. That second part about the reaction time could be true since the other paladin healer is an amazing spot healer and has healed for years, but it's still quite a lot. I'll be sure to tell him to be a bit more diverse with his healing toolkit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacie View Post
    PoM Glyph is a loss when he has the 2 set, his pom should be much higher in healing, seems like he's just spamming poh most of the time, he hardly used hymn at all, halo is much better for malorak then DS, i play holy, so won't comment on disc logs, on my paragons kill my top heal was echo, pom FH then poh.
    That might be because he isn't using the talent that procs it as holy and the glyph, I'll be sure to tell him to switch those two out as soon as I catch him online. I was thinking the same thing with PoH, but wasn't sure if that was their version of "Hey, you have all of this for ST, but AoE? PoH!!!" since it seemed odd that it could go above 50% healing on that spell alone on some attempts. Halo should be fun on that fight, I'll tell him to switch, even if it seems to have an absurd mana cost. Thanks for mentioning your top heals, I hope this is somewhat of a stable "outcome" on the logs, so I'll look for those 3 in somewhat that order.

  9. #9
    This is my Paragons of the Klaxx log maybe this will help i run with a disc and myself as holy

    Not sure why he would take PI over DI he has enough haste already he should take DI and get rid of that pom glyph, i would also suggest taking from darkness comes light for holy specc, since changing from mindbender to it my healing is much better.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=7277&e=7756
    Last edited by Kacie; 2013-10-08 at 09:55 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kacie View Post
    This is my Paragons of the Klaxx log maybe this will help i run with a disc and myself as holy

    Not sure why he would take PI over DI he has enough haste already he should take DI and get rid of that pom glyph, i would also suggest taking from darkness comes light for holy specc, since changing from mindbender to it my healing is much better.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...?s=7277&e=7756
    Alright, I assume this should still hold solid despite the change with Echo of Light? I feel that if it ticks every second (à la Lifebloom) it'll "snipe" a lot more of the effective healing than once every 3 seconds for 3x the amount, but given that it has 4% more healing than your second spell and procs of basically everything I think there is some room for padding it there to still remain first. Also not to forget how more useful it is during low bursty periods and whatnot.

  11. #11
    Yeah kinda annoyed about that, but i guess i'll find out how much of a nerf this is, i guess that means even more overhealing for us but it will still refresh so i'll see how bad it is tonight.

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