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  1. #1

    does LFR, Flex, Normal and Heroic of the same raid = 4 uniques sets of content?

    In Diablo 3, Blizzard introduced content tuned differently and marketed as additional levels. It appears this is happening in WOW now. I know to a certain degree it has always happened (normals/Heroics), but now it seems to be the main source of instanced content. I am talking about designing a specific instance, then tuning several duplicates of it harder and harder. I was extremely disappointed in Diablo 3 when I discovered I finished all the content after not so many hours. That to beat the game I needed to do the same content 3 more times. I was hoping that model of game design would be kept to Diablo, but it looks like it has happened in MOP. I recently saw a post from a blue who stated, "adding flex mode adding more content for the players."

    I disagree, I think it is the same content, just tuned harder. It seems instead of designing multiple five mans, which I sorely miss, we get the same content tuned to multiple difficulties.

    For whatever reason I never tired of running five mans for loot, but the same does not hold true for LFR. I have to psych myself out to be able to run one.

    Is it me? Are our instanced PVE selections fine? I dunno. I am not an open world guy, I have never been one. I have always loved blizzard for their access to and diversity of instanced content. It just seems MOP has little to no instanced content other than a raid tuned 4 different ways.

    I know there is more do actually do in MOP, no doubt about that. It just seems like there is less that i actually want to do.

  2. #2
    Ofc it is same content just ,,harder,, difficulty. And tahts problem of WoW here isnt any exclusive content. Everythingis opne for everyone. This didnt work in diablo 3 and it also doesnt work in WoW. I would rather have 1 amazing epick raid. Then 4 average with 2 what i cant even call raids.

  3. #3
    Heroic wasn't always around....... but I agree, 4 iterations of content isn't really "more".

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    In Diablo 3, Blizzard introduced content tuned differently and marketed as additional levels. It appears this is happening in WOW now. I know to a certain degree it has always happened (normals/Heroics), but now it seems to be the main source of instanced content. I am talking about designing a specific instance, then tuning several duplicates of it harder and harder. I was extremely disappointed in Diablo 3 when I discovered I finished all the content after not so many hours. That to beat the game I needed to do the same content 3 more times. I was hoping that model of game design would be kept to Diablo, but it looks like it has happened in MOP. I recently saw a post from a blue who stated, "adding flex mode adding more content for the players."

    I disagree, I think it is the same content, just tuned harder. It seems instead of designing multiple five mans, which I sorely miss, we get the same content tuned to multiple difficulties.

    For whatever reason I never tired of running five mans for loot, but the same does not hold true for LFR. I have to psych myself out to be able to run one.

    Is it me? Are our instanced PVE selections fine? I dunno. I am not an open world guy, I have never been one. I have always loved blizzard for their access to and diversity of instanced content. It just seems MOP has little to no instanced content other than a raid tuned 4 different ways.

    I know there is more do actually do in MOP, no doubt about that. It just seems like there is less that i actually want to do.
    I'd just like to point out that I've never seen the difficulty system as "content, then harder versions." I've always seen it as "content, then easier versions."

    As in: "Hardmodes" are made, and then dumbed down to make content relevant for everyone else, not LFR was made and then more difficult versions made.

    Interesting how people see things. Ever since ICC I've always seen the HM content as the real content and everything else simply a dumbed down version or stepping stone.

    Most seem to see Hard Modes as "Normal with added mechanics" whereas I see everything but Hard Modes as Normal with mechanics removed.

    I think the only time I haven't seen it in this way was when they introduced fights in Ulduar. Then it felt like normal content with more challenging optional modes. Everything else has felt like normal content with easier modes.

    Peception is funny.

  5. #5
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Certainly not unique sets. A second difficulty of roughly the same thing is still the same thing. I can't remember a single video game that did such a thing and was remembered fondly for basically forcing you to complete the game on a harder difficulty to get the "real" ending. The only one that springs to mind is Ghosts N' Goblins (and its sequel, Ghouls N' Ghosts and Super Ghouls N' Ghosts) that did that crap, and that game series is remembered as being insanely hard and annoying for that reason.
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  6. #6
    Scarab Lord
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    They're not designed to be "4 unique sets of content for 1 persoN" in fairness.

    They're aimed at different people.

    It's not like in Diablo where it goes:

    Run normal - unlock higher difficulty
    Run harder unlock higher difficulty
    Run even harder unclock higher difficulty
    Beat hardest mode

    LFR and Flex don't exist as the first 2 sets of raids for you to run, they're there for people who aren't as skilled and who can't commit to as much time and effort as raiders, whilst serious raiders can jump into normals and heroics when they finally finish it

  7. #7
    You are right Compstance, perception is funny.

  8. #8
    No one ever promised *unique* sets of content. The different difficulties of the same content may or may not apply to how you define unique.

    But I can tell you that I play quite differently in Heroic than I do in LFR. LFR is spam AoE (healing) and try to get there faster than the rest. Heroic is focusing on positioning, trusting the other roles to do their job, communicate if I cannot fulfill mine. They are so different in mentality that they feel unique.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    They're not designed to be "4 unique sets of content for 1 persoN" in fairness.

    They're aimed at different people.

    It's not like in Diablo where it goes:

    Run normal - unlock higher difficulty
    Run harder unlock higher difficulty
    Run even harder unclock higher difficulty
    Beat hardest mode

    LFR and Flex don't exist as the first 2 sets of raids for you to run, they're there for people who aren't as skilled and who can't commit to as much time and effort as raiders, whilst serious raiders can jump into normals and heroics when they finally finish it
    I am pretty sure a blue stated that Flex was adding content for people to do, not adding a new more relevant option for a players specific skill level. I believe it was learn the raid through LFR and get geared, then start tackling Flex.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord
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    i never heard Blizzard say the raid difficulties were supposed to be additional content. i see it as a fun raid with a difficulty aimed at me. i just need to decide which one that is.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkloud View Post
    I am pretty sure a blue stated that Flex was adding content for people to do, not adding a new more relevant option for a players specific skill level. I believe it was learn the raid through LFR and get geared, then start tackling Flex.
    Have you got a source for that?

    When I read about flex it was sold as a mode for people who enjoy playing with their friends but don't want to be stuck to 10/25 and want an easier experience with their friends, and also as a way to allow the people who enjoyed PuGing 10 mans during WOTLK (such as ICC) to get back into proper raiding.

    Considering Flex opens so slowly (like LFR), for serious raiders it's not really content for them as it's not aimed at them and they have little reason to run it

  12. #12
    Four runs isn't anything new. In Wrath days we still had normal, heroic, 10-man, 25-man.

  13. #13
    Flex SoO feels like Normal with a variable amount of people - same mechanics, nearly the same damage, different loot distribution and slightly worse purples. Heck, I feel Flex is harder than Normal currently just because our raid group is carrying so many people in Flex that we don't carry in Normal.

  14. #14
    In terms of game play experience it is different content and even GC has said that LFR does not provide the same experience as normal with Flex being being far closer. From a story standpoint it is the same thing. All comes down to a players focus. If you care about experience then the heroic raider got to experience a wider variety of game play than the LFR only person and why there are players who feel like LFR is not really raiding due to being such a large difference in experience from Flex, normal, and heroic including less mechanics which alter the experience.

    So in terms of adding more content for players, Flex has offered a fuller experience for those who found themselves stuck in LFR. Flex has also offered another option in choosing how to play the game. What Flex has not done is offer brand new unique content in both story and gameplay. When LFR came out it was new content for non-raiders despite not actually offering any new content and it worked for well at least a year.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk
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    Yo, I used to hate on the different modes, but I think Flex is amazing. Here's why. Me and my friends are seasoned raiders from Tier 11 cataclysm (means we havent raided for TWO YEARS), and just got back into the game. We're all sitting at 515 ish and have absolute shit luck with LFR, and even though we have zero problems with mechanics, we simply don't have the DPS to kill Sha on Normal mode.

    Thankfully due to flex, not only are we able to get some more gear that is a reasonable level (540) since the mechanics were not an issue, we were also able to practice for normal mode in a test setting before going to go rape it on normal when we were geared enough to do so. Additionally, since not all of us are seasoned raiders, and we're tired of yelling and being on top of everyone's game, it's better that we can teach mechanics in a more relaxed setting that isn't faceroll like LFR. It's good.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tygor View Post
    Four runs isn't anything new. In Wrath days we still had normal, heroic, 10-man, 25-man.
    I had no problem with the four run raiding potential in Wrath. I enjoyed it.

    It was set up in a way that you could improve throug normal while still working on bosses in heroic each week.

    This setup isn't exactly the same, because it's not like you "step up" through them from tier to tier. If you raid heroics, you're pretty much ready for heroics next tier. If you run normals, you're ready to run normals next tier, etc, etc.

    I think it would be cool to have Flex gear be a bit higher ilvl than a previous tier's HM gear and then working through each difficulty,but I don't see that every happening.

  17. #17
    Remember that normal and heroic are exclusive; you can only kill those bosses once per week. So really there are three tiers; LFR, flex, and normal/heroic.

    Flex loot is much better than LFR, and the experience (in my experience, anyway) is far superior. My feeling is that most people actively doing flex won't bother with LFR. I know I won't. T16 LFR is terrible.

    Normal and heroic loot is much better than Flex. Most people doing organized raids with their guild won't bother with Flex, once they have their set bonuses and trinkets. Flex will primarily be for alts and achievements.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Compstance View Post
    Peception is funny.
    You are both right and wrong. Blizzard reps have stated that normal mode is the first thing they design and that LFR/heroic are modified versions of normal.
    You can try to fit me in a box, only to see me burst out of it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    You are both right and wrong. Blizzard reps have stated that normal mode is the first thing they design and that LFR/heroic are modified versions of normal.
    It makes sense. I guess it's just how I've always viewed it, and it's hard to see it otherwise.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Santoryu's Avatar
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    No.

    If you read a 450 page book during daylight and then read the same book again in darker conditions (harder) it doesn't mean you've read 2 different 450-page books.

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