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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    It didn't try to kill alts it was just an unfortunate side effect of trying to keep casual players entertained and subscribed via constant character progression (legendary questline) and it's something they have tried to fix (reducing exp, timeless isle).
    This. In MoP, they attempted to try to keep players busy with dozens of dailies offering tiny, incremental rewards. However, ended up making the game an a unbearable grindfest because players had already filled their free time with additional alts. Since then, they've been slowly making the game more alt-friendly, culminating with the Timeless and Garrosh BoAs.

    The pace of the rollbacks has been too slow, in my opinion, but I'm glad they've learned that altoholics are an important part of their playerbase.

  2. #22
    Scarab Lord Rixis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    yeaah...... aside from well a lot of things if u add something alt friendly to the last patch of the xpac the xpac itself is not alt friendly

    What about previous patches? Adding double rep account wide via commendations, removing golden lotus rep gate, letting you get 20 golden charms in a week to gear up quicker, buffing drop rates in older LFRs, reducing EXP requirement, awarding exp from pet battles. They've made loads of changes over time to make it easier.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    It didn't try to kill alts it was just an unfortunate side effect of trying to keep casual players entertained and subscribed via constant character progression (legendary questline) and it's something they have tried to fix (reducing exp, timeless isle).
    It's just that this won't fix anything. They only went from one extreme to the other and assume it's balanced in average, which it isn't. Casual players are simply not interested in a long term involvement with a game, they weren't entertained with tedious gear up models and left, now they will soon be bored again because you can essentially blaze through the endgame of the entire expansion in one free weekend as soon as you hit 90, which - I'm calling it - won't entertain for long as well.

    The point is, whatever you do, you can't bind casual players to your product forever. That's why they are casual per definition, yet Blizzard wastes tons of time, money and consumer good will to get where they will never arrive. This is the thing I don't get, it almost seems like Blizzard don't know where their priorities lie anymore. With decades of experience in running a game studio, having a strong playerbase and owning trademarks that once stood for unbribable quality, they really should know better than this.
    Last edited by The Kao; 2013-10-02 at 11:56 PM.
    There are too many design flaws in your game. As a result, your customers' game experience may be degraded. Fire or replace the failing developers if you don't want to see this message again.

  4. #24
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    I gotta admit, if what you're saying is in fact true, blizzard sure has an odd way of doing it... Making it easier and easier to gear alts....

    I thought I had it there but no, I do not understand how that is "killing alts". It's been a while since craftebles were the best items.

    OP you're wrong about this one I'm afraid. Turn that frown upside down.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Gobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    And you just proved you are new to the game. I played the game since mid-TBC. I eventually ended up with a huge enterprise that has drained the whole realm of its gold, so trust me when I say they hit at alts with Mop's launch.
    Oh dear, It shows how desperate you are if you're pulling that silly little line, I actually started just after TBC launched They haven't tried to make MoP an alt killing expac, "simple as that"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Stark
    They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

  6. #26
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    Umm, this expansion is more catering to alts than any other previous. It's ridiculously easy to gear alts now with timeless isle. raiding is stupid easy with lfr and flex so everyone can see content. hell, if this expansion isn't catering to alts than why does just about everyone have 3-4 that are 520+ilvl with cloaks?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by corg View Post
    This. In MoP, they attempted to try to keep players busy with dozens of dailies offering tiny, incremental rewards. However, ended up making the game an a unbearable grindfest because players had already filled their free time with additional alts. Since then, they've been slowly making the game more alt-friendly, culminating with the Timeless and Garrosh BoAs.

    The pace of the rollbacks has been too slow, in my opinion, but I'm glad they've learned that altoholics are an important part of their playerbase.
    or the slow pace of the rollbacks is just more intentional grind fest and you dont realize it. you do realize heirloom gear for alts (whose acquisition ensures even more time spent) has been around since Wrath?

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire MissCleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    the vast majority of that was added in patches
    And? If you're saying each patch has made the game that much more alt-friendly, I agree. The combined total of all of that is that MoP is more alt-friendly than any expansion prior to it. Remember when you had to do long attunement quests to raid? Remember when there was no BoA gear? Remember when mounts, pets, titles, etc. were tied to a single character? A lot of people have decried the game becoming more and more catered to casual players, but whatever your opinion is on that issue, I think it's undeniable that it's also made the game much easier for altoholics. Anyway, like I said, that's been my experience. Maybe other people have found it difficult to maintain multiple alts this expansion, but I don't really see how that's possible with all the tools they've given us patch after patch.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    They just went too far with making alts time consuming. Even though things are better now, not having dungeons with decent gear this tier for quick gearing up is still hindering many people. Personally I prefer to run dungeons whenever I feel like it for as long as I feel like it, instead of dealing with weekly lockouts and big queues for essentially the same stuff.

    Before people feel the need to point out 496 token gear, 496 gear is relatively way worse than any last tier dungeon gear ever was. 528 LFR gear is relatively much closer to what dungeon gear used to be than 496 token gear.
    But if you get a full set of 496 gear plus the easy 535 upgrade you meet the required iLevel to enter the final raid in LFR. So essentially the barrier to entry is the same except you're not running mind numbing heroics over and over from the start of the expansion...or 3 from the same patch like LK/Cata.

    If your goal is to raid well 496 is more than enough to start working on the recently nerfed ToT to fill in some slots before starting on Flex.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleGoblinMage View Post
    First with the auction house nerfs with having to farm on a main to get the best items, then with the cloak, it's all obvious that they have explicitly targeted the destruction of the value of having many alts.

    Now this has advantages since sometimes you felt it obligatory to have alts to compete with others, especially in making gold or competing in the most hard core guilds with the highest variety of personally controlled characters though it has a small disadvantage (albeit it is indeed probably lesser than the advantage) that sometimes it did make sense to have alts with fun without being forced.
    Players who wanted to have small armies of alts, without having to play them kill alts. You want an alt? Play him/her.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freehoof View Post
    And? If you're saying each patch has made the game that much more alt-friendly, I agree. The combined total of all of that is that MoP is more alt-friendly than any expansion prior to it. Remember when you had to do long attunement quests to raid? Remember when there was no BoA gear? Remember when mounts, pets, titles, etc. were tied to a single character? A lot of people have decried the game becoming more and more catered to casual players, but whatever your opinion is on that issue, I think it's undeniable that it's also made the game much easier for altoholics. Anyway, like I said, that's been my experience. Maybe other people have found it difficult to maintain multiple alts this expansion, but I don't really see how that's possible with all the tools they've given us patch after patch.
    my point is that ur judging the xpac based on the latest patch and not as how the game has been for alts during each individual patch

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire MissCleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    my point is that ur judging the xpac based on the latest patch and not as how the game has been for alts during each individual patch
    There was one line in my original post that refers to content added this patch (Timeless Isle). Previous patches did buff the drop rate for Legendary quest items, LFR has been in MoP since the beginning, more or less, account-wide mounts, pets, titles, etc. have been in MoP since the beginning, the Grand Commendation rep unlocks have been in MoP since what, 5.1? Earlier? New BoA items were added through Archaeology (and other professions, like the Inscription BoA staves for example) at MoP launch... the list goes on. The fact that they've made it even easier to have alts through continued patching makes my case even stronger.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokinrond713 View Post
    my point is that ur judging the xpac based on the latest patch and not as how the game has been for alts during each individual patch
    5.1:
    - Grand Commendations are now available for purchase from all Mists of Pandaria faction vendors at Revered reputation. Using a Grand Commendation will permanently increase the amount of reputation gained with that faction across all characters on a Battle.net account. makes it quicker to get required rep for gear

    5.2:
    - Heroes fortunate enough to acquire a “Key to the Palace of Lei Shen” can bring it to the Shado-Pan on the Isle of Thunder and use it to infiltrate the fabled treasure vaults of the first emperor. Heroes are tasked with grabbing as much loot as they can within five minutes. Larger chests will have the most loot, including special keys that can be used at the end of the run for a chance at epic gear and other major rewards. Keys are awarded from rare bosses, hidden chests around the island, and from award satchels obtained by completing daily quests. give masses of golden charms for bonus rolls in lfr

    - Nalak, the Storm Lord
    After the Isle of Thunder has been conquered, the gate guardian of the Thunder King's citadel will appear: Nalak, the Storm Lord. Players will frequently have the opportunity to test their mettle against him.
    Oondasta
    Found in a place that has been lost in time, the great devilsaur lord Oondasta has been outfitted for battle with weaponry and armor by the Zandalari, and awaits players brave enough (or foolhardy enough) to seek him out on the mysterious Isle of Giants found in the seas north of Kun-Lai Summit.
    free epics for hitting a big bad boss

    - All world bosses (Sha of Anger, Galleon, Nalak the Storm Lord, and Oondasta) are now Tap to Faction. This new system offers every eligible player of the same faction that engages a boss the chance to earn loot. Under the new system, players will only be able to earn loot from each world boss once per week. removed group requirement, making it far easier to tap for loot

    - Zandalari forces have begun scouting the shores of Pandaria, searching for the perfect invasion point. The Zandalari can be found in Krasarang Wilds, Dread Wastes, Townlong Steppes, Jade Forest, and Kun-Lai Summit. Zandalari Scouts can be handled by 1 or 2 players, while elite Zandalari Warbringers will likely require a full party of 5 heroes. Defeat Warbringers to gain special drops, including crafting materials, reputation gains, an achievement, and even the chance to get one of three new rare mounts! free rep for alts

    - Level capped players will now have a chance to earn Lesser Charms of Good Fortune after winning a pet battle versus a pet within 5 levels of the highest level pet on their team. Higher-level pets will offer a better chance to earn a charm.
    - Winning a pet battle versus a team within 5 levels of the player's highest-level pet will now award player experience. lesser charms and exp

    - The maximum number of Elder Charms of Good Fortune a character can hold has been increased to 20 (was 10). more rolls

    - The chance of getting personal loot in Raid Finder and the chance of a successful bonus roll in Raid Finder have been greatly increased for the following raids, Mogu'shan Vaults, Heart of Fear, and Terrace of Endless Spring. more chance for epix

    - Heroic Pandaria dungeons now award 100 Justice Points per boss. Gold drops for those bosses have also been changed from a static 50 gold to a 40-60 gold range. Less gold will drop in groups consisting of fewer than 5 players. quicker jp

    Plus more, can't be arsed trawling patch 5.3 notes, but it added battlefield barrens for more easy (one a week) epics, as well as the exp nerf to leveling, quicker/higher drop raste of legendary quest items, the elite alliance (and horde) mobs for legendary quest chain got massively nerfed, the 6k VP quest got halved.

    What part of alts has been killed?
    Last edited by Rixis; 2013-10-03 at 12:12 AM.

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire MissCleo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    >snip<
    Oh yeah, world bosses - how could I forget about those? Nice list btw

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Rixis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freehoof View Post
    Oh yeah, world bosses - how could I forget about those? Nice list btw
    Wowpedia patch notes ftw

    Oh, it might not affect alts, I dunno, depends on the person I guess, but choosing what spec you want loot for too, so, say a boss drops nothing useful for main spec, switch specialisation to offspec for chance at gear.

    5.3

    - Protection for bad luck streaks have been added to bonus rolls. Each bonus roll that does not provide loot has a progressively better chance to award loot to the player.
    - Reduced the number of Lesser Charms of Good Fortune needed for the Mogu Runes of Fate weekly quest to 50, down from 90.
    Last edited by Rixis; 2013-10-03 at 12:14 AM.

  16. #36
    Okay you may have had a point in 5.1 w/ the rep +vp tied to gear however, I don't know what you need to make you happy at this point. There are BOA epics that fall from the sky on an island where you can get a full set of gear in less than an hour. XP to 90 has been nerfed by 33%. LFR itself is alt friendly, I mean you can queue for a raid without having a clue what you're doing or how to play the class.

    Do you need instant 90s + a full set of gear + insta legendary to make it alt friendly? It couldn't be moreso atm.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rixis View Post
    TOO LONG DIDNT QUOTE.
    the part where all of that was added in subsequent patches? and they didnt come all at once, they were gradual. and charms was a chore and a half to get from mobs until SoO patch

  18. #38
    No, they are not targeting alts, thats just ridiculous. Relative to Cata, it was just much easier to juggle alts. Cata, relative to Wrath, was MUCH MUCH easier to juggle alts. You as an altaholic aren't being targeted...

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Kurgath's Avatar
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    Funny thing, I only play one character, will never re roll my main, but this expansion I managed to level 7 alts 1-90, just for the professions. And I love it, planning on leveling all 11 characters to level 90 before next expansion

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its not about killing alts..They had a completely wrong approach alts are doable, just useless.

    The problem with the game right now is 1)Trinkets 2)Legendary cloak 3)Meta gem.

    Without the decent trinkets (As DPS always)you are useless, without the legendary cloak and meta gem you are behind 20% by default, counting not having BiS trinkets there is no possible chance for a DPS alt to stand a chance doing anything.

    Also the catch up system of this expansion was wrong.

    WOTLK catch up, aka the 3 heroics were 1 tier normal behind with weapons.. same with Cataclysm heroics, but Timeless Isle is 2 tiers behind, not one, hence alts are useless everywhere, even in ToT LFR, cause they have shitty stats, no trinkets, and more importantly no weapon at all.

    Right now any DPS alt is completely useless, considering the average SoO normal raider has an item level of 530-540 with the meta gem and the cloak, for an alt to reach that they require at least 1 lucky week with Sigils, 3 weeks for valor quest + 4 weeks more if lucky for the rest, 2 months just for the cloak.

    Compared to WOTLK/Cata the catch up system in MoP is terrible cause of the cloak quest line and what comes with it and the way they changed trinkets.
    Useless without a decent trinket ... lol hardly even remotely accurate ... oh and your basing a whole expansion around having a cloak and meta gem .... not very realistic either.

    You can do fine without either. unless your trying to a top 10 guild lol
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