General idea for playable High Elves and Ogres

[Gamevizier]

To be fair the majority of the Horde playerbase isn't exactly screaming for playable Ogres either. But that's the race the pro High Elfers like to foist upon us when these threads open up. They get access to our most popular race, and we get ANOTHER monstrously ugly race.

I'm just pointing out that a strong case could be argued to give them Ogres instead, a long delyaed compensation for the Elves.

:P I prefer Furbolgs.

really... High Elves are too squishy for my taste.

[Deleted]

and once again. models. models, models. new race is all about models for many players thats why they disagree with an idea of playable High Elves. "because Horde had race with the same model." srsly its so important to watch back of new model during the same 10-90 lvl quests?
new race its just a matter of gathering another model to pokemon collection?

because its not fair that Alliance gets the same model that Horde have?

well its fair. Alliance gets model that is not unique. Horde model is not unique anymore.
and both still got 6 unique races. and 2 races with the same model.

fortunately Blizzard is focused on new players instead of those with pokemon(alt) collection. Thats why they changed the whole talent-bulid idea, thats why they "killed alts" in MoP(as some thread here said), thats why there is so many threads about good vanilla times.

[Obelisk Kai]

and once again. models. models, models. new race is all about models for many players thats why they disagree with an idea of playable High Elves. "because Horde had race with the same model." srsly its so important to watch back of new model during the same 10-90 lvl quests?
new race its just a matter of gathering another model to pokemon collection?

This is the second time you've mentioned a pokemon collection. You think what motivates me is to have as many unique models as possible to have a vast collection of alts? I have two characters, my Death Knight and my Mage. Just those two and they are enough thanks very much, I have no intention of creating any more characters in this game.
Still, when it comes to adding races, more excitement is generated when a brand new race is added to the game rather than the damp squib of adding the same race again.
And no this isn't just about the model.

because its not fair that Alliance gets the same model that Horde have?

Not quite the same model, the same race. And yes, it is monstrously, profoundly unfair. In all of the fantasy universes out there, only has one has opted to put the traditional elves in alliance with the Orcs rather than the Humans. That is one of the unique and defining characteristics of the Horde, pretty elves and ugly Orcs. You want to undo that. At a stroke you'd undo that unique and special aspect of the Horde. Blizzard would be saying 'yeah the ugly races and the pretty races shouldn't mix, there should be a clear division. You would diminish the character of the Horde by doing this. That's the FLAVOUR of why this is unfair.

The MEAT of why it is unfair is that the Blood Elves are the most popular race in the Horde. You want access to the most popular race the Horde has and you don't care what lore has to be twisted or what pathetic compensation (Oges. Seriously, OGRES!? or goddamn it dwarves or mangy worgen?) we're lumbered with. You don't care what they give us as long as you get your pretty elves. If you want to be a pretty Elf, you can. But you should have to accept going Horde as the price. Which isn't a price at all, the Horde rocks.

well its fair. Alliance gets model that is not unique. Horde model is not unique anymore.
and both still got 6 unique races. and 2 races with the same model.

How very kind of you to volunteer Blizzard's precious development time in pursuit of your pet project. They don't get to work on a genuinely interesting race, have to rehash an existing race for people who cannot stand the Horde and then they get to give the Horde a brand new race as compensaton.

You know this may come as a shock to you, but the many, many people you claim would be for the addition of High Elves probably don't exist in the numbers you think they do. What you've got here is the echo chamber effect, where you've gone to a forum, found otherwise like minded people, and through talking amongst yourselves have convinced yourselves there is a huge swelling of opinion in favour of this.

Now what the real opinion PROBABLY is, is apathy. Alliance, Horde, at the moment they don't care because there is no sign of it happening. They don't even know or care this debate exists. But if what you have just proposed ever comes to pass, that the Alliance gets a Horde rehash and the Horde gets a brand new race in compensation, then they'll know. And they will not be happy. They won't be happy at all. In their minds, pretty elves=Horde. Blue elves=Alliance.
Now they can be pretty elves, but the Horde got a brand new race.

Yeah that's a recipe for a forum meltdown right there. The backlash would be something to see. It would become legendary.

fortunately Blizzard is focused on new players instead of those with pokemon(alt) collection. Thats why they changed the whole talent-bulid idea, thats why they "killed alts" in MoP(as some thread here said), thats why there is so many threads about good vanilla times.

See from this comment I can tell you're not getting what I've been trying to say so let me summarise.

TLDR: I don't want you guys to have access to the most popular race on my faction, undermining the character of my faction, simply because you don't like my faction. You want to play this particular race? Then you swallow your dislike and play on my faction. You don't want to play on my faction? You've seven options then. Stop trying to steal my faction's races.

[josykay]

Great idea. Just give the Alliance a race, which could potentially be the most played race of the entire game, while give the Horde a bunch giant, ugly, fat and dumb people. You see, Highelves are attractive for many players and newcomers. Ogres on the other hand will only be played by the hardest fanbase. A little minority.

Good bye, faction balance, hello 2:1, 3:1 or worse outnumbered horde.

[Deleted]

To be fair the majority of the Horde playerbase isn't exactly screaming for

You know this may come as a shock to you, but the many, many people you claim would be for the addition of High Elves probably don't exist in the numbers you think they do. What you've got here is the echo chamber effect, where you've gone to a forum, found otherwise like minded people, and through talking amongst yourselves have convinced yourselves there is a huge swelling of opinion in favour of this.

Now what the real opinion PROBABLY is, is apathy. Alliance, Horde, at the moment they don't care because there is no sign of it happening. They don't even know or care this debate exists. But if what you have just proposed ever comes to pass, that the Alliance gets a Horde rehash and the Horde gets a brand new race in compensation, then they'll know. And they will not be happy. They won't be happy at all. In their minds, pretty elves=Horde. Blue elves=Alliance.
Now they can be pretty elves, but the Horde got a brand new race.

Yeah that's a recipe for a forum meltdown right there. The backlash would be something to see. It would become legendary.

yep we all know that that knows "what majority of players" think about what care and what would do. And we all know the you are the only one who knows which blue post are important and whats the Blizzards plan for WoW for next years. yep, we all know this so now you can grow up.

TLDR: I don't want you guys to have access to the most popular race on my faction, undermining the character of my faction, simply because you don't like my faction. You want to play this particular race? Then you swallow your dislike and play on my faction. You don't want to play on my faction? You've seven options then. Stop trying to steal my faction's races.

yep it pretty summarises you. but you should add some additional statement lile "LEAVE ME AND MY FACTION ALONE!".

[Obelisk Kai]

yep we all know that that knows "what majority of players" think about what care and what would do. And we all know the you are the only one who knows which blue post are important and whats the Blizzards plan for WoW for next years. yep, we all know this so now you can grow up.

yep it pretty summarises you. but you should add some additional statement lile "LEAVE ME AND MY FACTION ALONE!".

Ha.

As to figuring out which blue posts are important, even YOU can do it. Here's the super secret trick. They all are, unless later contradicted by another blue post.

Staggering revelation I know.

[Deleted]

Great idea. Just give the Alliance a race, which could potentially be the most played race of the entire game, while give the Horde a bunch giant, ugly, fat and dumb people. You see, Highelves are attractive for many players and newcomers. Ogres on the other hand will only be played by the hardest fanbase. A little minority.

Good bye, faction balance, hello 2:1, 3:1 or worse outnumbered horde.

indeed, outnumbering Horde might be a real problem. Since Blood Elves would became those "bad elves".
but there is also a lot of players(like me) who prefer to play those bad, ugly, furious races. Are the proportions of "attractive race lovers" to "ugly race lovers" so imbalanced ?

[Deleted]

Good idea.

Perhaps substitute Dustwallow Marsh for Dire Maul/Eldre'Thalas in Feralas, having it be contested between High elves/Highborne and local Ogre tribe.

[josykay]

indeed, outnumbering Horde might be a real problem. Since Blood Elves would became those "bad elves".
but there is also a lot of players(like me) who prefer to play those bad, ugly, furious races. Are the proportions of "attractive race lovers" to "ugly race lovers" so imbalanced ?

Well, I think Orgres are a little bit problematic:
On the one hand we have the Ogre warrior, wearing Tier 6, while wielding a massive weapon, or pretty mean looking fist weapons, like the Bladefist, which drops from Kargath. This would, indeed, be pretty badass. I think, warriors and shamans would be damn cool, maybe even hunters (Although the most range weapons are just to tiny. Large, primitive looking blunderbusses would be awesome. Just loke at the Warhammer ogres).

On the other hand we got cloth wearing classes like mages or warlocks. Since i highly doubt, that Blizzard will introduce several deferent chestpieces like tunics or togas those classes would look damn terrible. And this is the problem about Ogres, when comparing it to other races. Tauren and Orcs in several outfits look pretty cool.. But on ogres it would mise likely look bloated misfit mess.

In addition ogres seem to be not only big, ugly and savage. They seem to be fat and dumb... Many people do not want to play those races. There was a reason, why Blizzard redesigned the old Draeneimodel. It looked to ugly, not fitting for the Alliance, making it, compared to the blood elves highly unattractive. Although those original Draenei got a much better lore, and the lore fitted better for shamans as well, since the original Draenei got a shamanic culture insted of that light-naruu nonsense.

[Gamevizier]

Well, I think Orgres are a little bit problematic:
On the one hand we have the Ogre warrior, wearing Tier 6, while wielding a massive weapon, or pretty mean looking fist weapons, like the Bladefist, which drops from Kargath. This would, indeed, be pretty badass. I think, warriors and shamans would be damn cool, maybe even hunters (Although the most range weapons are just to tiny. Large, primitive looking blunderbusses would be awesome. Just loke at the Warhammer ogres).

On the other hand we got cloth wearing classes like mages or warlocks. Since i highly doubt, that Blizzard will introduce several deferent chestpieces like tunics or togas those classes would look damn terrible. And this is the problem about Ogres, when comparing it to other races. Tauren and Orcs in several outfits look pretty cool.. But on ogres it would mise likely look bloated misfit mess.

In addition ogres seem to be not only big, ugly and savage. They seem to be fat and dumb... Many people do not want to play those races. There was a reason, why Blizzard redesigned the old Draeneimodel. It looked to ugly, not fitting for the Alliance, making it, compared to the blood elves highly unattractive. Although those original Draenei got a much better lore, and the lore fitted better for shamans as well, since the original Draenei got a shamanic culture insted of that light-naruu nonsense.

in fact i think robes will look pretty damn cool on Ogres... why? Robes will turn to skirts on Ogres because they're too big and fat for the rob to fit completely so your caster character looks like a retarded cross dresser (with all respect to people with mental-disabilities) who can bash anyone if he wants to...completely fits the theme of Ogres, big brutes who are slow and dumb.

[Deshow]

The Blood Elves represent the High Elf civilization as they are former High elves and were the majority in favor for using fel magic and also joining the Horde.

The very few High Elves that refused to go by the rules imposed by Lor'themar and rules of Silvermoon are the traitors >.>

If Alleria comes back i couldn't care less if she was hostile towards the Blood Elves ,as she hasn't lifted 1 finger into helping them since forever while the High Elves ,now known as Blood Elves had a really tough time latetly. And if she ever comes back and wants to be part of the Sin'dorei then i hope she is prepared to take orders from Lor'themar ,because he is in charge.

What.

Do you understand the difference between blood elf and high elf? There is a physical difference. High elves and pure, therefor there eyes are blue while blood elves have glowing green eyes as a consequence for siding with the goddamn burning legion in their hour of need.

Not to mention that the friggin pandaren are identical and come from the same place yet they are separated by 2 apposing leaders. Alleria will never be part of the horde. You dont lead an attack on nazi Germany only to become a friggin nazi. She is loyal to the alliance and will side with her alliance high elves who will be over joyed to see that she is back.

[Deleted]

Well, I think Orgres are a little bit problematic:
On the one hand we have the Ogre warrior, wearing Tier 6, while wielding a massive weapon, or pretty mean looking fist weapons, like the Bladefist, which drops from Kargath. This would, indeed, be pretty badass. I think, warriors and shamans would be damn cool, maybe even hunters (Although the most range weapons are just to tiny. Large, primitive looking blunderbusses would be awesome. Just loke at the Warhammer ogres).

On the other hand we got cloth wearing classes like mages or warlocks. Since i highly doubt, that Blizzard will introduce several deferent chestpieces like tunics or togas those classes would look damn terrible. And this is the problem about Ogres, when comparing it to other races. Tauren and Orcs in several outfits look pretty cool.. But on ogres it would mise likely look bloated misfit mess.

In addition ogres seem to be not only big, ugly and savage. They seem to be fat and dumb... Many people do not want to play those races. There was a reason, why Blizzard redesigned the old Draeneimodel. It looked to ugly, not fitting for the Alliance, making it, compared to the blood elves highly unattractive. Although those original Draenei got a much better lore, and the lore fitted better for shamans as well, since the original Draenei got a shamanic culture insted of that light-naruu nonsense.

obviously their model and lore need more or less cosmetics indeed . but the evolution from dumb fat creature to savage big badass is possible. I think its much easier than doing entire "brand new race" with completely new lore, models etc. etc.

They are problematic in the way you said but they also got a lot of potential as playable race for Horde and it would be a shame to ignore this potential :P

[Al Gorefiend]

No. Not another one. Not another goddamn High Elves for the Alliance thread.

This is the third in the past week!

And as usual it's become a 'How great will this be' thread.

How many times must this argument be had?

Very well. Again. I refuse to let some sort of cozy echo chamber consensus emerge as to why this is a great idea when it's a horrible one.

Usually I talk about Lore reasons. This will focus on plain common sense.

If you people genuinely think Blizzard is going to push adding a race they added seven years ago, except now with blue eyes as a massive expansion feature simply to appease a vocal minority in love with the LOTR stereotype of the Man the Dwarf and the Elf against the Monsters you're mistaken and deluding yourselves. If you want to play a Thalassian Elf so badly, the Blood Elves are there. if you want to indulge the LOTR racial coalition stereotype, you've got LOTRO or Rifts out there.

They are not going to devote substantial development time, including repurposing a zone as a starter zone (when Dustwallow Marsh sits as a 35-40 level zone in the levelling path for both factions) to fill with blood elf architecture tinged blue, blood elf npcs in blue rather than red clothing with blue eyes and a race whose story arc is extremely limited. By which I mean, all the juicy elf lore bits have been appropriated by the Blood Elves and the High Elves get only leavings.

And think of the poor Blizzard devs! First the quest givers have to devise more stories for the elves despite the elves getting quite a bit of attention in MoP. This comes at the expense of two races currently within the Alliance who could do with a bit more lore, the Worgen and the Draenei.

Any High Elf story would be a more extreme rehash of the Blood elf arc, a dying people (to a factor of 10 with the High Elves) seeking their place in the world. Except they don't have the strength to project any sort of power by themselves or to act independently of Dalaran. If I were Fargo the idea would bore me to tears.

They want NEW. They want EXCITING. They want something they can spalsh on billboards and motivate ALL their players. To the majority of the players, Thalassian Elves are a Horde race. They will be vocal about this proposed cheap ass copy paste job.

I wonder if the pro High Elf brigade will ever come to terms with the fact this race will, 95% certain 5% blizzard really is out of ideas, NEVER be playable.

I mean come on it's not rocket science. We have X development time and resources, we can add one new race to the Alliance, do we give them a new race ACTUALLY LINKED TO THIS EXPANSION with new lore and architecture or do we give them a copy/paste Horde race we'll be raked over the coals for and which will generate tons of negative PR which would drown out the few people going 'Yay! We can now play the race we've always wanted despite the option being avaialble for the past seven years and that we have consciously decided not to take advantage of!'

Personally I don't want any new races. I think the existing 13 give enough options and have plenty of stories to be told without throwing any more into the mix.

Besides, with the character model upgrade eating up their artists time and three races being added in the last two expansion cycles, you'd have to be a brave person to bet on new races this time around.

Allow me to introduce you to MMO-Champion General Discussion

- Blood Elves are the forum mascot
- If you bash them, expect a swarm of hate
- If you make a thread about them, expect it to cap
- If you make a thread bashing them, expect it to lock
- If you disagree with playable High Elves on MMO-C YOU are the minority
- These "High Elves for Alliance" threads will never cease, expansion after expansion of it never coming true
- Mention any "ugly" race for Alliance and you *might* get a quote or 2. Make a thread about it, it might make it passed page 5 (sans Naga)

[Khaza-R]

I would welcome High Elves among the Alliance for one reason, Faction Balance.

As an Alliance on a PvP server its dreadful to be so outnumbered by the Horde. And that all started around the time they introduced Blood Elves to the Horde.

In fact make both races Neutral.

Blood Elves for the Horde / High Elves for the Alliance

Gordok Ogres for the Alliance with blue/black skins and Stonemaul for the Horde with Red/Beige skins.

[Lumineus]

indeed, outnumbering Horde might be a real problem. Since Blood Elves would became those "bad elves".
but there is also a lot of players(like me) who prefer to play those bad, ugly, furious races. Are the proportions of "attractive race lovers" to "ugly race lovers" so imbalanced ?

People aren't going to pay for faction xfers just to get blue eyes. More likely you'd see a decrease in PvE oriented human characters as players already in Alliance guilds race-changed, depending on the timing and if the new human model, if it was even out by then, still looked like it fell out of the ugly tree.

[cmats4020]

People aren't going to pay for faction xfers just to get blue eyes. More likely you'd see a decrease in PvE oriented human characters as players already in Alliance guilds race-changed, depending on the timing and if the new human model, if it was even out by then, still looked like it fell out of the ugly tree.

Actually, I know many people who would race change to be High elves. High elves are really popular among the player base; it's not surprising.

[OzoAndIndi]

Come to think of it really, other than the fact that I'm within the camp that holds that High Elves are already playable simply under another name... Maybe model options is also something that could be holding it back?

Honestly, referring to suggestions I've read before, it would be weird to give them a model that looks different from the Blood Elves other than basic stuff like the eye color. Their appearance should continue to reflect that they are very much still kin, no matter how they feel about each other. Do family differences/disagreements that divide a family make people stop being family (even if they've stopped acting like one)? No.

Which comes to the problem of what Blizz already does to loosely differentiate the NPCs... using only a vaguely noticeable difference by keeping them all very fair skinned and light haired. If PALE and blue eyed is how High Elves are visually recognized and it makes sense then that is how playable versions should be as well...then that possibly kinda does lead to a very limited customization issue (and probably forum bitching) for player characters. People already don't like when faces are too similar between races or unchanging within one.

[Obelisk Kai]

Actually, I know many people who would race change to be High elves. High elves are really popular among the player base; it's not surprising.

Yeah they are. They're the second most played race overall at the moment. People race change to them all the time

[cmats4020]

Yeah they are. They're the second most played race overall at the moment. People race change to them all the time

Real cute, troll.

Anyways, if High elves, you know the actual Alliance-sided High elves were playable, a lot of people would probably race change.

[Obelisk Kai]

Real cute, troll.

Anyways, if High elves, you know the actual Alliance-sided High elves were playable, a lot of people would probably race change.

I object to being called troll.

I am not trolling you. I am simply pointing out the many, many, many flaws in your arguments and arguing they ultimately stem from a selfish desire that will damage the game.

You will note that despite the heat of this debate, I have not lowered myself to calling you names. The fact that you are resorting to it now indicates to me you have no strong counters to what I am saying beyond expressing your increasingly vapid, ridiculous and short sighted ideas in increasingly bellicose terms.

You're trying to shout me down.

You are the one who cannot accept that the race you wish to play as is currently in game. You are the one arguing for a drastic change to the game that has never been done before. You are the one demanding Blizzard up ends their own lore to mollify you.

Just to satisfy a selfish desire.