Assurance of Consequence is considered BIS for ww monks but I fail to see its appeal?

[cszsolt3]

So today I got it from sha in a flex group . Previously I had thunderforged normal renetaki. I looked up on the trinket around these boards, found that it's included in the BIS list so I upgraded it. Read up on it for a bit to find that it's passive only works for FoF and energizing brew , which is to say the least a bit disappointing. I figured I should reforge some of my haste away as i was previously running around 9k, rarely using FoF in encounters. So I dropped some haste, thinking that would utilize the trinket better. But overall I got pretty crappy results , I think overall my dps dropped and not increased from the trinket.

Could someone put some light on this? Should I wait for a higher ilvl version of the trinket for it to worthwhile, or what's the sitiation with it exactly? http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...uriel/advanced

[Totaltotemic]

It's because someone somewhere calculated the cooldown reduction incorrectly (as a factor of reducing the cooldown by that percent instead of using the formula for haste that it actually uses) and came up with a number that the energy from the reduced EB cooldown was worth. Since then, people have been slapping it on BiS lists and coining for it without an actual understanding of how the trinket is supposed to benefit WW.

The actual math surrounding the trinket is that the 553 ilvl version reduced EB's cooldown to 43.2 seconds, which is worth 16.8 extra energy per minute, or the amount of energy you would get from 1190 haste (but not the effects from haste like increased attack speed or cloak/meta RPPM), which is roughly equivalent to ~700 actual haste (around 60% of the value seeing as it doesn't affect about 40% of your damage). Compare that 700 haste to the 1959 mastery on the TED (which in itself is less than what Haromm's gives in terms of DPS) with essentially equal procs, and you have to figure that the FoF cooldown reduction would have to be worth at least 1200 rating, which is nearly impossible as 1200 crit rating at 50% crit would be a ~1.4% DPS increase and using FoF that much more is nearly impossible without significantly devaluing your own haste and mastery, as well as both T15 and T16 tier bonuses.

So no, AoC isn't good, but a lot of people think it is without a solid reason and it's pretty hard to unring that bell.

Edit: This is why I write this stuff down in a permanent space so I don't make dumb mistakes. 43.2 EB cooldown = 0.388 haste extra, etc etc it's worth about 1652 haste of energy which is roughly equivalent to 1000 haste rating in extra damage, but that's still a pretty big gulf for the FoF cooldown to make up. Future note: AoC CDR on EB = CDR x 42.5 haste in energy.

[archkiller]

Only good in patchwork fight. In fight with lots of movement, the FoF cooldown reduction is worthless.

[Jayma]

Use ebon

It's more reliable anyway.

[bounstar]

It's because someone somewhere calculated the cooldown reduction incorrectly (as a factor of reducing the cooldown by that percent instead of using the formula for haste that it actually uses) and came up with a number that the energy from the reduced EB cooldown was worth. Since then, people have been slapping it on BiS lists and coining for it without an actual understanding of how the trinket is supposed to benefit WW.

The actual math surrounding the trinket is that the 553 ilvl version reduced EB's cooldown to 43.2 seconds, which is worth 16.8 extra energy per minute, or the amount of energy you would get from 1190 haste (but not the effects from haste like increased attack speed or cloak/meta RPPM), which is roughly equivalent to ~700 actual haste (around 60% of the value seeing as it doesn't affect about 40% of your damage). Compare that 700 haste to the 1959 mastery on the TED (which in itself is less than what Haromm's gives in terms of DPS) with essentially equal procs, and you have to figure that the FoF cooldown reduction would have to be worth at least 1200 rating, which is nearly impossible as 1200 crit rating at 50% crit would be a ~1.4% DPS increase and using FoF that much more is nearly impossible without significantly devaluing your own haste and mastery, as well as both T15 and T16 tier bonuses.

So no, AoC isn't good, but a lot of people think it is without a solid reason and it's pretty hard to unring that bell.

Your FoF bias is showing. While I don't think AoC is BiS, I also don't believe it's as bad as you're making it out to be. I don't agree with the assertion that lowered FoF usage somehow has to equal ~1200 worth of mastery for it to be worth it. This is based on the assumption that the only reason you would take this trinket is for the lowered FoF/EB CD. Firstly, mastery is easily worth the least of all the secondary stats. All of my sim data points to that conclusion (even with 4p and no AoC equipped). With reforging, you're still stuck with ~1200 mastery guaranteed on the trinket.

I also don't agree that the procs are equal. Having a static agi proc over 20 secs is much better than the decreasing agi proc over 10 secs in my opinion. In a raid situation, it's definitely easier to have 10 stacks ready for the AoC proc and you don't lose as much value if you're late to use it. With the TeD proc, you'd have to time it perfectly in order to get the full benefit of the proc. Throw in GCD's, reaction time etc, you're potentially losing a very significant chunk of DPS since the initial proc is when it's most potent.

Another benefit I'm finding from AoC is that the lowered FB/Zen Med CD's are extremely useful in a prog environment. It definitely plays to our strengths, being the invincible personal CD machines. This won't come up in any kind of sim, but having extra damage reduction is invaluable to a raid group and cannot be brushed over when comparing these trinkets. It's also probably easier to swap out AoC for other trinkets like the cleave trinket but that's pretty minor.

So now the question is if 1200ish mastery + ~700ish in whatever is worth everything I've outlined in this post? Debatable I suppose, but AoC is definitely not bad at this stage of the patch. (As for my opinion on which trinkets to take, Harromms is definitely BiS and I'll still leaning towards TeD as well but I'm more than happy with how AoC has served me thus far)

[Totaltotemic]

So now the question is if 1200ish mastery + ~700ish in whatever is worth everything I've outlined in this post? Debatable I suppose, but AoC is definitely not bad at this stage of the patch. (As for my opinion on which trinkets to take, Harromms is definitely BiS and I'll still leaning towards TeD as well but I'm more than happy with how AoC has served me thus far)

That's exactly the problem though. AoC has no tangible DPS benefit over an equal ilvl TED, yet it keeps showing up on BiS lists. Whether it's better than the lower ilvl Bad Juju or Talisman of Bloodlust is up for debate, but whether it's better than TED is not. Ergo, if it's not better than an equal ilvl TED, it is also not better than an equal ilvl Bad Juju, and certainly not better than an equal ilvl Renataki's. The version OP got was 12 ilvls higher than his former Renataki's, but it makes sense that it would not provide very much benefit because it's simply not a very good trinket for WW.

That's not to say that AoC is worthless though. A heroic AoC is undoubtedly better than any ToT trinket simply because at a 20+ ilvl difference the proc on it alone means a ton, but it's just not the "omg best in slot all slots 10% DPS increase if I get it" that it is for just about every other class in the game that has access to a cooldown rate increase trinket because it doesn't actually decrease any meaningful cooldowns.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

The actual math surrounding the trinket is that the 553 ilvl version reduced EB's cooldown to 43.2 seconds, which is worth 16.8 extra energy per minute

basic math fail :-P
EB normaly gives 60 energy per minute, i.e. is worth 1 energy per sec.
with AoC reducing it's cooldown you get 60energy / 43.2s = 1.3888 e/s which is 83.333 e/min which is 23.333 e/minute extra, not your 16.8 e/min.
that would lead to 1650 haste worth of energy regen. (if you don't have ascension)

The question is: how much worth is only the energey regen part of haste?
I just checked a random top log on malkorok, and saw that 37.4% of dmg was affected by only attackspeed, 32.1% only by energy regen, and about 30.5% is kind of unaffected by both. (I ignored combobreaker, too complicated to compensate for that)
We know that the attackspeed part scales more or less linear with haste, but the energy regen part scales better than linear (e.g. 10% more energy regen does not mean 10% more damage to the 32.1%, it's actually more as long as we have the free GCDs to use more Jab+BoKs)
So my guess is that energy regen is worth about 60% of normal haste. (funny we get the same number here^^)
so yeah the AoC trinket may be considerer worth 1000 haste thanks to EB increase.
The FoF part would be worth about another 1000 haste if you used it in cooldown and perfectly. (assuming its dps is similar to jab+BoK, but it costing less Chi per damage done, so its more or less just an ability that saves energy over jab+bok)

But all in all I agree on the conclusion, AoC is not as good a trinket to us as it is to others. especially as our mastery has been guttered (on a pure damage gain per mastery ratio) and we have to run crit > haste > mastery, having more haste isn't all that valuable.
(It would be nice to be able to reforge crit > haste > mastery and land on a comfortable amount of haste, but that requires having as much crit gear as possible and not to much mastery ^^)

[thebdc]

Read up on it for a bit to find that it's passive only works for FoF and energizing brew

It reduces the cooldown of:

- Energizing Brew
- Fists of Fury
- Flying Serpent Kick
- Fortifying Brew
- Transcendence: Transfer
- Zen Meditation

[Deldavala]

The AoC is strong, but not as strong as it is for other Agi DPS. It gives you some energy regen with EB, A solid agi procc, Less cd on survability CDs and an awsome reduction on your movement abilities. What I love the most about it is that you will have more moments where EB, Trinket procc and 10stack TeB up at the same time. Also for some raid mechanics it helps a lot. With Heroic Warforged 2/2 you can FSK back from every shockpulse on Iron Juggernaut, lower CD on FoF means more stun on adds on bosses like Galakaras, Nazgrim, Sha, Norushen. So overall its probably not BiS for DPS, but its much easier to capitalize on the procc and the fact that it gives much more utility than TeD.

[Babylonius]

I was lucky enough to roll a Normal version the first week and used it to replace RoRo. Last week I coined a H WF version and have been using that. I tried last previously to use FoF in my rotation as often as possible and to whittle down my haste as much as possible. This week I decided to go with 9350 (22%) haste and use FoF less. I am using EB nearly on cooldown and I occasionally will use FoF if I meet all the conditions. I am rarely capped or starved, and that's with a lot of haste and using EB nearly every 30s.

I love this trinket and will be hard pressed to replace it whether I'm making the best use out of it with FoF or not. It may not be "optimal" but its the best I have until better drops and I'll need H TeD and H Harroms before I switch out H WF AoC.

Feel free to look at my logs as I feel my DPS and rankings can support my preference with AoC and how its used.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...ll/Babylonius/
http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/thrall/babylonius/