Thread: SoO LFR nerfed.

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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    But much less challenging and entertaining. And often even takes longer than flex. Cross-realm groups and the tools to form the exist. LFR is only convenient for afk-ers, bots and terrible players (with some few exceptions)
    I don't get home from work until about 1AM and I'm far more likely to get into LFR at that hour than a functioning Flex group, oQueue or not. (hay anmybody know a tank, hay, ask ur guilds hay tank?hay okay i have a tank where did hels go, fuk it lets seven man)

    Carrying twelve bots actually makes LFR a decent challenge. So, hey!

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    But much less challenging and entertaining. And often even takes longer than flex. Cross-realm groups and the tools to form the exist. LFR is only convenient for afk-ers, bots and terrible players (with some few exceptions)
    Entertaining is subjective (as is challenge for that matter as what one finds challenging differs from person to person.) Give it a month or two after the final nerfs are in place, after the playerbase has a much better handle of the mechanics, and after the average ilvl of the typical LFR is 520+ and Siege will be completed just as fast as ToT. LFR isn't going anywhere.

  3. #143
    They really need to stop nerfing LFR when it's a matter of people being stupid.
    You can't fix stupid; Nor should you. Sadly money talks and people are too lazy to do something as simple as moving to a place on a platform, standing in something or not attacking the boss at all.

    In regards to the "no experience" thing I've helped a few people from my RP server dip their toes into raiding by bringing them to Flex or in previous tiers; Going back to MSV during ToT (for example) and just helping them clear it. It's really not as complicated as people make it out to be.

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  4. #144
    you could nerf the hell outa heroic raids, replace half of the raid team with random people, and the difficulty would be harder

    just because lfr is suppose to be easy doesn't mean it is

  5. #145
    Banned Bigbamboozal's Avatar
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    I was in LFR the other day....yah fights that need even a small bit of coordination are a flop when blizz groups people together who speak different languages.
    Seriously. Fuck that. So they either need to 1: separate groupings by language or put a translator in, or 2: possibly nerf it even more.
    Just based on that alone. What a fucking drudge it is to slog through LFR with people swearing at each other in 2 or three languages, trying to blindly kick each other and being so toxic they are causing the large majority of wipes.
    GG blizz. (you can feel free to add a 'gg blizz' in your native tongue)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    They really need to stop nerfing LFR when it's a matter of people being stupid.
    You can't fix stupid; Nor should you. Sadly money talks and people are too lazy to do something as simple as moving to a place on a platform, standing in something or not attacking the boss at all.

    In regards to the "no experience" thing I've helped a few people from my RP server dip their toes into raiding by bringing them to Flex or in previous tiers; Going back to MSV during ToT (for example) and just helping them clear it. It's really not as complicated as people make it out to be.
    So what you are saying is that they should buff the difficulty of LFR to punish the people who ARE paying attention due to the others who are not.....great idea.
    Or not. I'm not saying teamwork should not be needed, but I don't think LFR needs to punish those who are aware and tuned in due to others any more then it does already.
    Guess you hadn't even considered that huh?
    So if you can't fix stupid, how does buffing the difficulty make it fixed?
    I'm sorry but you're reading a lot like an elitist without a clue.

  6. #146
    I'll go one step further.

    I think they need to nerf Nazgrim's health at least another 10%...yeah I said it.


    LFR is for the not the best people that still want to "Raid" and enjoy the content.

    Last night I was LFR'ing on my warrior and we hit the enrage on Nazgrim for 3 wipes.
    Yeah...the DPS was low, but they WERE following the mechanics...albiet a bit too stringently.

    We had zero Ravagers...he never got that much rage.
    Everyone stayed alive...I was shocked too
    No one attacked during Defense...but that was the issue. Not that they didn't attack during D Stance...that was good, that they didn't switch back fast enough or in Zerk stance they would all go kill the adds (I'm talking the Warrior, Rogue and Mage adds...not the shaman, that one I would at least understand) instead of killing the boss.


    There would be times during D Stance where we had nothing to do for 30s or more.


    I mean we just got them to do the right thing...now we need to get them to do it to a degree?

    ADDS >>> Boss finally pounded in their head
    Healings ADDS >>> Zerking Boss > Adds > Boss ....yeah, that takes a bit more Hammer to pound in.

  7. #147
    I'm happy with the nerf. I had to do this LFR on 4 toons last week and it was hell. Each lasted 3-5 hours.

    While I know the mechanics well since I raid on regular SoO, many people don't know them and had a really hard time.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Salted Beef View Post
    I don't get home from work until about 1AM and I'm far more likely to get into LFR at that hour than a functioning Flex group, oQueue or not. (hay anmybody know a tank, hay, ask ur guilds hay tank?hay okay i have a tank where did hels go, fuk it lets seven man)

    Carrying twelve bots actually makes LFR a decent challenge. So, hey!
    Unless you are a tank, making a flex group through OQ is faster than the LFR que because people in flex raids are more likely to pull their weight, especially if you have under 20 people and can tell the slackers from the rest.
    Doing the actual flex raid is faster than doing the actual LFR que

    If you actually valued time, you would do flex raids over LFR.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Salted Beef View Post
    I don't get home from work until about 1AM and I'm far more likely to get into LFR at that hour than a functioning Flex group, oQueue or not. (hay anmybody know a tank, hay, ask ur guilds hay tank?hay okay i have a tank where did hels go, fuk it lets seven man)

    Carrying twelve bots actually makes LFR a decent challenge. So, hey!
    In my experience, as a DPS, it takes less time to get into a Flex group using either oQueue or Open Raid and much less time to complete a Flex wing than its LFR counterpart.

    Take Wing 2. The queue as DPS is often 30-45 minutes and it takes 2-3 hours to complete at least. Last night I got into a Flex group for wing 2 using oQueue in less than 10 minutes and we completed it in about an hour and a half. I had even better luck last week when I completed it with a Flex group in 65 minutes, the same week it took 3.5 hours to complete that wing in LFR on both my main and my alt.

    The thing about "hay anybody know a tank", well, that only happens in trade chat PUGs. While it takes longer to find heals or tanks using these cross realm group finder tools, it is still easy to fill a group with the appropriate number of tanks and healers in less than 15 minutes - half the time it takes for a DPS queue to pop for LFR SoO. One is never consigned to begging for tanks for 45 minutes with oQ or OR.

    And yes there are even late night CR pugs using these tools. I don't stay up that late myself but I see 'late night' raid events posted on the Open Raid events page every time I'm there. You even see events posted for e.g. 5 am, 7 am, 1 pm, etc.

    PS I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to encourage you to check these tools out. Flex groups are just so much more fun and rewarding than LFR, and I promise you, you WILL find groups even with your schedule.

  10. #150
    Angry? No, there is no real reason to be angry about something you couldn't influence anyway, especially if it touches only the parts of the game I don't frequent.

    Happy? No, because these nerfs only serve short term. The main problem, namely the mass degeneration of the player base, remains unchanged, maybe grows even stronger since Blizzard barely hesitated at lighting the wrong signals ("if you can't beat it we'll nerf it").

    I'd descripe my feelings towards the nerfs more as indifferent with a slight notion of disappointment.

    Here's still hoping they don't dare touching normal and heroic modes this time but I guess a DS style debuff is to be expected in a few months.
    There are too many design flaws in your game. As a result, your customers' game experience may be degraded. Fire or replace the failing developers if you don't want to see this message again.

  11. #151
    Whhhyyyy the Dark Shaman were the destroyers of the newbs on LFR. It was fun to see.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kao View Post
    ...The main problem, namely the mass degeneration of the player base, remains unchanged...
    Here's where we are going to disagree. I actually don't think the playbase hasnt gotten any worse, only think that now with LFR you're interacting with a lot more of the base that you used to
    Last edited by jayinjersey; 2013-10-04 at 06:36 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashardis View Post
    The nerfs to nazgrim scream 'not paying attention' and 'not prioritising targets' as the problem rather than the fight actually being too hard. I've killed them both twice in lfr on my rshammy with groups that did the fight correctly, and it was a breeze, to the point where I dps/interupt adds cos my healing wasnt needed. On my mage, the 2 lfrs I was part of didnt even finish clearing trash before first boss without the groups falling apart, twice in one day even.
    The fights arent hard, they just require peoole to play with their eyes on the screen for once
    You're lucky, because I was in different three LFR groups that failed to take down Nazgrim. You just needed two or three idiots beating on Nazgrim during defensive stance to make the axes come out and once those started flying it was a guarantee that you would get more. Even post-nerf we wiped three times because some idiot kept spamming, "BURN HIM!!!" just as he was spawning his extra wave of adds. Once we kicked that guy we finally got him down. I personally feel the nerfs were necessary for LFR. Just because you were lucky enough to get into two different organized groups for Nazgrim doesn't mean the fight was tuned appropriately for LFR. I personally feel the nerfs were warranted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    Tbh, if you died from mechanics before nerf you'll most likely do it after aswell.
    This proves that you don't even know what the mechanics were. The failures on this fight impact the entire raid, not just the individual who fails. If the banner doesn't go down ASAP he builds rage and flings out an erratically moving axe that causes the entire raid to run around for the remainder of the fight to avoid dying and/or enraging him further. If the healing tide totems don't go down shortly after that the adds take longer to die and Nazgrim gets healed. If the shamans don't go down next then Nazgrim gets healed. This fight wasn't like Elegon where if you derped in the center you fell down into the hole and saved the healers the hassle of having to heal you; if you screw up on that fight everyone else pays for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    Casuals would put effort into what they do, just they do it on a limited time frame.
    Yes, and spending three hours on a single boss until enough failures were vote kicked and/or typed /leave and got replaced with better players doesn't jive well with "limited time frame." That's why the fight had to be nerfed. This was one of those fights where 20 people putting fourth their best effort were easily derailed by the five who were phoning it in. That's understandable in Flex+, but it defeats the entire purpose of LFR.

  14. #154
    The better idea really is to just mail LFR players all the gear that would drop in said environment. You get 3 random pieces a week.. Bingo, we now have a baseline of gear for folks who want to go further in f/n/h, and the ones that are terrified of challenge can still progress by going to their mailbox.

    Less development time, win / win situation.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Faithshield View Post
    He should reflect 100% of damage in defensive stance on LFR rather then gain rage, so people are individually punished without wiping us.
    I would have no problem with that.

  16. #156
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    But much less challenging and entertaining. And often even takes longer than flex. Cross-realm groups and the tools to form the exist. LFR is only convenient for afk-ers, bots and terrible players (with some few exceptions)
    You generalize too much and your definition of what is entertaining isn't the one that everyone lives by. There's no iron law that proclaims that everyone must want and needs to be challenged. That may be what you want but you don't get to decide what the one true playstyle is. It's a big game that can be played and enjoyed in a lot of ways. There are plenty of good players leveling alts through LFR.
    A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.

    "Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by 7seti View Post
    Making it survivable will just encourage lazy people to ignore it, putting more stress on the healers.
    As a healer I'm OK with that. I enjoy the challenge and would rather be able to complete an encounter and collect loot, even if it's more work for me, than wipe for another hour before quitting in disgust with nothing to show for my efforts.
    Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-10-04 at 07:30 PM.

  18. #158
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kao View Post
    I guess a DS style debuff is to be expected in a few months.
    Maybe the end of expansion will be different; I can see that I guess. So far they've left Normal/Heroics alone while they were current.
    A bit of civility and respect for others opinions goes a long way toward getting any respect in return. Overly hostile, profane and insulting posts are a sign that people don't really have anything to say. Profanity is best served out in very small doses.

    "Forum drama exists because people enjoy creating it." - ML/2013

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletnips View Post
    Whhhyyyy the Dark Shaman were the destroyers of the newbs on LFR. It was fun to see.
    One could argue LFR is for newbs and used by newbs. If you're a real player, you shouldn't be in LFR period! No excuses! If we went with that line of thinking, then most of the fights are too much for LFR. I can't wait to see fights like Thok, SiegeCrafter\Paragons in LFR (actually I can wait and may never even go in there for them).

    It's odd that we don't see a lot of outrage on how normal mode dungeons are too easy. Yet, we have easy mode raids and all the Pro players can't seem to stop complaining that the people it's aimed at (non raiders), are bad players and that it needs to be harder because easy mode is easy. Yet I don't see the same outcry for normal mode dungeons to be harder.

    But mark my words...tons more nerfs are coming for LFR. Ever single boss from here on out will get at least 1 round of nerfs. Blizz wil let it be a wipefest at first to either bring joy the pious hardcore crowd or to try and push people into flex so that they build long last relantionships and find their true love while killing some dragons.

  20. #160
    Nazgrim was clearly overtuned and had to be nerfed... Ravage was doing the same damage on RF as it did on normal (400k per second) and that just can't be right. I couldn't even be bothered doing RF on my alts anymore while it was like that because I didn't want to face spending 2 hours to get through the 2nd wing of LFR SoO and that's exactly what happens if you aren't lucky with the random matchmaking system.

    I say this as a heroic raider...
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2013-10-04 at 07:19 PM.

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