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  1. #181
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreas1999 View Post
    It's not a big deal. It could be fun, even.
    I don't enjoy the idea of Blizzard forcing movement out of a turret spec. But you're right, it's not that big a deal.
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  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Fail.

    As a disc priest in 530+ gear, I would have to regem, reforge and bring along new trinkets just to perform adequately at 463 ilevel.
    I can't be arsed to do that; and so I cannot beat Gold 8 without running completely out of Mana.
    I brought my alt disc priest in PG. I didn't change anything, except maybe reforging for some more spirit (not sure about that, it's about 150g anyway) and I one-shot gold while barely paying attention to the mechanics (first time healing PG). So no, you can certainly do it as long as you pay some attention

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    I don't enjoy the idea of Blizzard forcing movement out of a turret spec. But you're right, it's not that big a deal.
    You're just making excuses. Proving grounds is supposed to challenge you. Or do you think in raids you could just stand in one place and perform your rotation without interruptions (hint: except in LFR you can't)

  3. #183
    Stood in the Fire Snorkles's Avatar
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    I'd say it's a perfectly valid complaint if it favors one DPS spec over another within a class.

  4. #184
    I consider myself a very good player and I loved proving grounds. It taught me how to heal and tank properly since I've only ever played a DPS as my raiding characters and Flex/LFR never taught me anything as they aren't demanding enough on healing and you don't even need to use mitigation or cooldowns as a tank.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkles View Post
    I'd say it's a perfectly valid complaint if it favors one DPS spec over another within a class.
    Then how about how it favors different classes? You want 34 specs to be perfectly balanced in every aspect of the game?

  6. #186
    I keep forgetting this feature exists.

    Only thing that really interests me about it is getting that "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" achievement.
    Still trying to figure out if I should try it on my warrior or priest...

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  7. #187
    [QUOTE=Texxi;22739537]A friend of mine spends a lot of time in Proving Grounds.

    He told me that he learned how to play Assassination Rogue extremely quick and easy, and does Proving Grounds for Ranking purposes.

    I'm just going to leave his Rogue 40+ wave video here to promote him.


    That was impressive. Grats to your friend.
    The one comment I have - why not use crippling as the non-lethal poison? Since you take zero damage in PG, seems like the slow would be more useful, even if it's just on the Banana Tossers, since Leeching Poison doesn't provide any benefit in there.

    On topic of PG, I completed Endless 30 on my hunter, and it's mostly a exercise in memorizing the ten waves, and when to use personal CDs versus the provided zerker buffs. My main complaint is that my weapon broke on wave 28 of one attempt ... argh!! Sure it's my fault I forgot to repair, but really can't stand how hunters destroy their own weapons from simply using them. Would be nice if they'd remove the durability damage from just doing your rotation.

    DPS seems to be easier than Tank and Healer PG in my opinion, but perhaps that's only because my main is DPS and I haven't seriously tanked since Wrath. Healer one was brutal for me on my Mistweaver, since I'm at a gear level where I switched to crit - downscaling hurts a lot.

  8. #188
    Fluffy Kitten Siri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    I keep forgetting this feature exists.

    Only thing that really interests me about it is getting that "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" achievement.
    Still trying to figure out if I should try it on my warrior or priest...
    Silver damage is really easy as a priest. I did it as Holy.

  9. #189
    Stood in the Fire Snorkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Then how about how it favors different classes? You want 34 specs to be perfectly balanced in every aspect of the game?
    I've not suggested anything of the sort. I just don't think it's unreasonable to want to be able to compete in your chosen spec without feeling like you're willfully hamstringing yourself.

  10. #190
    To be honest, felt really underwhelming. Put in some tries to do the gold-dps challenge as moonkin, finished it and then one-shot bronze and silver healing challenges as moonkin as well for the FoS.

    After that never looked back, as endless is just gold chained back to back and it was not that interesting to begin with :<

  11. #191
    IMO it's a failure, if they remove the ilvl down-scaling then it will be a lot more interesting but in it's present state there is a limit at what rank a player can reach and unfortunately lots of players can't make it even through gold.

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans miffy23's Avatar
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    Why are people judging it on it's "playability" value? I never saw it as anything than a tutorial how to play your character in group settings, and a benchmark for pugs. Endless mode will only really interest a select few, it's not really intended as any kind of long term timesink. You have Brawling for that.

  13. #193
    Its a good start as a tutorial mission for max level. It reminded me most of the monk hub actually where you go and do the quest everyday to practice mechanics and I think in long run Proving Grounds should try to become more like that. I suspect this was the starting point and in future they will add in things like rotational help for both single target and AoE as well as a few other modes.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    I cleared gold on my priest in full pvp gear (pvp enchants, gems and most important TRINKETS, yes trinket that has pvp power in its budget) so I think problem doesn't lie in your gear in this case...

    That's why Proving Grounds are a great success. It's a reality check for people who thought so high of themselves but now they fail in there. It's like a slap in the face because you can't be carried by friends or gear. I thought I'm good on my tank char but when I started to struggle on endless it made me research, redefine my ability usage, talents, reforges, try out different styles and stats priority, then after all I got to 40th wave (when at the start I couldnt get to 10th). If you want to be succesful there you need to quit your 'it's everythings else fault' mentality and try to improve. And I don't only adress that to the guy I qouted but to everyone who think they are better than they really are and don't want to face the truth and improve.
    Go play it on a feral druid. It's broken. To get gold I have to play the opposite of how I'd actually play in a raid situation.

  15. #195
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    It was extremely hard to do Endless for the proven healer. I can't seem to get to 30. I gave up on it, because of the brutal itemization scaling on my gear.

    Horridon's last gasp was scaled down to 800 something, versus Relic trinket had over 1k int still.

    I don't particularly care. It's a fun mini game but I'm not going to bash my head against the wall for a title. I have no interrupt, my CC is poop, and my CD's are kinda poop too. It's obviously possible but for me, it wasn't worth the headache.

    I got gold easily though. The jump from Gold to Endless is rough. The waves were overlapping, no drinking time ever, no time to use hymn. Often RNG elements made it so the tank would use his CD's at the worst times. To each their own, of course, but I'm not wasting my time on it.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkles View Post
    I'd say it's a perfectly valid complaint if it favors one DPS spec over another within a class.
    Maybe some specs are better at some things than others. Who knew?

    This thread is one step away from "I brought my enh shaman in there using resto gear, and did poorly at the dps trial. Totally a fail system"
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  17. #197
    There are two main problems with proving grounds.

    First, speaking as a holy priest, it encourages me to do things I don't normally do. For example, it benefits you greatly to use your heals to keep renew up on the tank, but using large heals sporadically will oom you because your spirit is dropped so low. The solution is to use plain Heal and keep that rolling. But who uses plain Heal? If I did that in a raid, I'd have dead raiders on my hands.

    Secondly, the solution to that is to not scale my stats down. And this is another problem - they want to have this be a 'competition' between yourself and other people, not simply a tool only for yourself. So they try and normalize everything to make it equal (since you are competing), without realizing that different classes play completely differently based on gear level. The end result is this effectively trains you how to play at an artificially low gear level, and is useless as an actual teaching tool.

    Proving grounds could be awesome, but this 'let's lower everyone so they can compete' destroys it by not only completely forcing you to change your current playstyle to be compatible with outdated strategies, but also removes the ability to make yourself better by artificially comparing you to other classes and specs that play totally different than you do.

    Let us keep our current gear and stats so we can practice on 'live' mechanics to make this a leasing/experimentation tool, and stop worrying about making it 'competition friendly' and using this as an e-peen measuring tool.

  18. #198
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Proving grounds is supposed to challenge you.
    There's a difference between challenging and outright trolling.
    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Or do you think in raids you could just stand in one place and perform your rotation without interruptions (hint: except in LFR you can't)
    Most of the time I can in LFR, and avoid bad stuff. As I'm still doing ToT LFR for Secrets I'll list the pure lack of movement I do for all my LFR encounters:

    Jinrokh: Stand near the boss and blink to pools, then blink out and run when Lightning Storm approaches, blink away from tethers
    Horridon: Stand near the gates and blink and run between them, blink out of bad stuff on the ground
    Council: Blink out of sandpits and away from Kazrajin's target
    Tortos: Stand right near the edge of the zone and turret
    Megaera: Group up and blink out for Embers
    Ji-kun: I'm usually on the nest team, but even that's just Arcane Explosion spam
    Durumu: Turret him, stop DPS when beamed or when the maze appears
    Primordius: Turret him down from the centre, moving only slightly for enhancements (very melee-friendly fight)
    Animus: Turret from the centre unless you get chased
    Iron Qon: Turret from the center, blink out of AoE lines and to escape dead zones
    Twin Consorts: I'm usually on the Celestials for this
    Lei Shen: The only fight with high movement, but can still get decent DPS turreting from near centre early on. Final phase interrupts rotation quite a bit with the winds blowing you about.
    Immerseus: Turret and sidestep pools as they appear
    Protectors: Blink out of AoE and into sphere
    Norushen: Blink through beams and through shielded adds in the purification zone
    Sha of Pride: Blink between prison and DPS group
    Galakras: I'm usually on a turret team
    Iron Juggernaught: stand such that you're in range and the huge knockback can be Blinked
    Not done Dark Shaman
    Nazgrim: Blink away from Ravager and invis Assassins

    Compared to:
    Gold PG: move constantly and DPS the monkey within the time limit

    See the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Then how about how it favors different classes? You want 34 specs to be perfectly balanced in every aspect of the game?
    How about Blizzard just balances PG such that it doesn't favour different specs?
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  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    How about Blizzard just balances PG such that it doesn't favour different specs?
    Repeating one last time and then I give up on you: IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. Different classes and different specs have different strengths each area of the game. It's been like that since day1 and it's always going to be like that as long as the difference between classes are not purely cosmetic.

    Or are you suggesting that you are ok with mages being better than ret paladins, as long as all mage specs are equal? Sound like a self centered approach.

    Also, if you're not moving in LFR, then it's an LFR fail and PG got it right by forcing you to move out of your comfort zone to get gold. Personally I consider gold to be almost trivial on all classes and specs, but if it's hard for you that's even better, it's called gold for a reason.

    Discussion is closed for me, if I couldn't change your opinion till now I doubt I will achieve it in the future.

  20. #200
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Repeating one last time and then I give up on you: IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. Different classes and different specs have different strengths each area of the game. It's been like that since day1 and it's always going to be like that as long as the difference between classes are not purely cosmetic.

    Or are you suggesting that you are ok with mages being better than ret paladins, as long as all mage specs are equal? Sound like a self centered approach.
    I'm suggesting that all Mage specs have their own spec-tuned PG and it should be balanced with Retribution Paladins, along with all the other DPS classes.

    It's not impossible, it just takes time Blizzard seem unwilling to put into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Also, if you're not moving in LFR, then it's an LFR fail and PG got it right by forcing you to move out of your comfort zone to get gold.
    Or that the mechanics in LFR (and raiding in general) permit turretting a lot more than PG does?

    Quote Originally Posted by honj90 View Post
    Personally I consider gold to be almost trivial on all classes and specs, but if it's hard for you that's even better, it's called gold for a reason.
    Good for you, you can overcome gross imbalances or pick the correct specs for each class. I'm sorry, this doesn't mean that Gold is actually worth anything.
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