Proving Grounds - Success?

[Firebert]

I did gold as Arcane. I went with Evocation and Frost armor instead of Rune of Power and Mastery. It's definitely doable, but it requires a fair bit of work.

I'm running Incanter's Ward and Frost Armor (like my normal raiding selection) because I don't have time to Evocate.

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You don't HAVE to be Arcane.

I don't WANT to play any other specs.

Furthermore, you are more than capable of stopping, casting a quick spell, and then moving again, right? Or, perhaps... wave spawns --> Polymorph one add, start moving.

All my damage is in ABarr, and as I'm full Mastery it takes an age to cast as my small amount of Haste is scaled down a lot. Any time wasted stopcasting is just asking to fail the wave, so that's not an option. The only "quick" spells I have are my instants Fire Blast and Arcane Barrage and they do very little on the move.

Arcane Barrage is instant, right? You have your Bomb talents, which are instant.

Except Frost Bomb. See above for info about ABarr.

And once you've finished one of the banana-throwers, you can very easily kill the second one without having to move -- they have very low health.

I'm having trouble with just one thrower. Again, requiring constant movement from a turret spec is bad design.

[ninepointseven]

Did Gold on my warlock and haven't touched it on any other chars. Really just to boring for my taste.

[Bladesyphon]

Right now, they're fun for people who already know their spec and role and want a little solo challenge mode fun to do. And that's fine.

But as a learning tool they are completely garbage. If I didn't know how to tank already, I doubt I would have made it to Gold. If I didn't know how to play my Unholy DK, there's no way I would have made it to gold. And I struggled to get to Silver on my Shaman Healer as someone who hasn't played a healer since Classic, and had no direction or instruction as to what I was doing wrong, or what I should be focusing on.

They need ALOT more attention if they're going to be used as a way to teach new players their roles. What we have now should be kept in game as a end-game style challenge mode mini-game of sorts for people already familiar with their class, spec, and roles, with the caveat of the Proving Grounds being rebalanced to accommodate all the specs better, with another mode being added that scales from level 10-90, and teaches players how to play their class, roll, and spec with an in-depth tutorial.

Sure, it's a lot of work to do something like this, but in the end it would be an excellent addition to the game. Right now, it's just a nice little side-thing to do at max level.

[Last Starfighter]

I quite like proving grounds, but dislike the ilevel cap. You kind of get used to having your character in good gear and able to manage certain situations, yet in the proving grounds you have to completely judge everything differently. This is especially true for healers and mana regen.

Personally I would have said let us keep our ilevel the way it is. Endless has scaling waves, lets just see how high we can go? Or have ilevel optional.

The point of PG is about skill and not being able to cheese it with gear. Everything else in the game (outside of CM's) gets easier with gear. PG should not be cheesable.

[Slatch]

I think people have the wrong idea behind the Proving Grounds. It's not the Teaching Grounds. Going back to Blizzard as a source you can clearly see they talk about it as a way to "test their mettle" and take "skills and abilities to the next level". http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10405142/

The Proving Grounds is a way to measure your skill at a class. It is not the only way, nor is it the 100% definitive way, but it sure does take a lot of knowledge in general about a class to be able to complete Endless 30. If you use a tool incorrectly, then blame the tool for not working you are doing something wrong. When one doesn't get as far as they want in PG, then blame PG for not teaching them how to get farther they are incorrect. A person needs to learn a little more about their class in any way they wish to learn, then come back and try again. A measuring tool is not directly a teaching tool!

[Firebert]

I'm not playing a mage, but AFAIK every form on CC works on them. I won't blame you for not realising that, I think it's blizzard's fault for making all 5 mans faceroll-able.

I don't see the point in CCing the single mob I can't kill even when the other mobs are cleared...

[melodramocracy]

I don't WANT to play any other specs.

So you refuse to alter your strat to overcome an obstacle, and then say the encounter is a failure?

Alrighty then.

[Firebert]

So you refuse to alter your strat to overcome an obstacle, and then say the encounter is a failure?

Because designing something that only a few specs can get the most out of is good design.

Alrighty then.

[Lumineus]

Speaking as DPS, Gold seems almost too easy, I kind of expected every wave to be like the last two.

Endless mode is frustrating as a Paladin. I struggled to get past wave seven due to poor multi-DoT and no real cleave to speak of, even the sixth wave was irritating due to Ret's poor AoE design (and the inability to cluster the mobs doesn't help).

[vaccine]

Loved it, hope they add new challenges from time to time.

[Greylan]

I loved it and also hope they add more challenges from time to time. One thing I will agree on, I don't want to fight for 45 minutes to get to my previous high, maybe they could add an option to start 10 waves lower than your best, or the next 10 waves down (i.e., if you made it to 45, you can start on 30).

Also to add, every spec of every class can get to endless 30 in their appropriate challenge; if you can't, the problem is yours not blizzard's. If you recognize that and strive to improve, you'll get your title.

[Deleted]

I don't see the point in CCing the single mob I can't kill even when the other mobs are cleared...

Oh, wait so you're doing silver or gold and you're stuck on a wave with just 1 monkey? Without having a clue about mages, just looking at the talent calculator I can tell that taking ice flows and frostjaw should make killing the add pretty easy. And that's the hard way, I didn't even realise you had slow, frost nova and deep freeze available as arcane. Which should make it trivial.

So you're basically complaining that you don't want to change spec, talents, reforges, playstyle or anything else. When someone gives you a solution (CC) you dismiss it. And you complain that you can't complete a trivial challenge because of that. I don't even want to comment on that...

[Theendgamelv3]

Because designing something that only a few specs can get the most out of is good design.

Alrighty then.

andreas1999 got gold so he clearly can get the most out of Arcane. Either he is really really good, or you are really bad.

[Deleted]

So you refuse to alter your strat to overcome an obstacle, and then say the encounter is a failure?

Alrighty then.

It's really not that strange of a request. Many people grow fond of a certain spec rather than a certain class, and not everyone is as flexible as others.

Considering the fact that the gear is scaled down, I really do feel that at the very least tweaking the balance within the Proving Grounds can't be all that difficult. But I'm sure Blizzard doesn't like the idea of that just as they didn't like the idea of a Shadow Bolt dealing different amounts of damage depending on if it hit a player or an NPC.

[Deleted]

i got bored after silver (DPS). PG is a failure imo.

[eschatological]

I one-shot gold on my hunter (but hunter doesn't have the scaling problems of being 463), and then failed gold on my resto shaman at around wave 9. The problem is with it, in a raid, I'd yell at my ranged to be in closer so everyone could be in the healing rain. The healing PG just has a bunch of dumb NPCs doing dumb as heck stuff. I'm not even sure the tank ever uses a cooldown. Healers have this odd situation where their job is actually generally easier (relatively) the more you advance in the type of PvE you do. I have a more hectic time healing LFR Iron Juggernaut than anything else in the game, tbh, because everyone facerolls in everything.

I'm fairly sure I could have gotten gold resto if I tried it a second time, and reforged out of my 33% haste build for a more spirit-centered build (esp with the amount of dispelling healer PGs require), and changed some talents, and some glyphs....but then I didn't. I suppose I'll get to it eventually, more because I'm a completionist.

Haven't tried tank PGs because my main tanking alt has always been a DK and she's been shelved for most of this xpac once we got into heroic raiding, so I just feel rusty in general.

Endless mode seems just like a research game. I suppose I'll do it at some point for the title. And I do admit I like disengaging behind shielded mobs to land a meaty kill shot in their back. But research is something I do enough of for fights that matter, lol.

[Firebert]

Oh, wait so you're doing silver or gold and you're stuck on a wave with just 1 monkey? Without having a clue about mages, just looking at the talent calculator I can tell that taking ice flows and frostjaw should make killing the add pretty easy. And that's the hard way, I didn't even realise you had slow, frost nova and deep freeze available as arcane. Which should make it trivial.

I'm already using Frost Bomb-Frostjaw-Deep Freeze on it, and then burning what I can during the stun. Still not enough.

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andreas1999 got gold so he clearly can get the most out of Arcane. Either he is really really good, or you are really bad.

Or that Arcane is far harder to get gold out of than Frost/Fire (which it is due to the nature of the spec).

[Snorkles]

I'd much prefer less waves, but harder. I'm also loathed to regem/reforge from a perfectly viable build as I suspect my life would be considerably easier (as a tank) if I swapped to a Mastery heavy build (Warrior).

Also looking at the rankings - BrM monks seem to dominate, is there a particular reason for this? Strength of guard at low gear levels maybe? I'm currently leveling a BrM so may have to give this a bash on him when he's 90.

[Deleted]

I'm already using Frost Bomb-Frostjaw-Deep Freeze on it, and then burning what I can during the stun. Still not enough.

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Or that Arcane is far harder to get gold out of than Frost/Fire (which it is due to the nature of the spec).

I'm tempted to level my abandoned mage to 90 just to prove you wrong. But others have already done so I won't bother.
And you forgot to answer to slow and ice flows. And the more I think the more I come up with other stuff, glyphed cone of cold is probably pretty good as an extra instant. And maybe cold snap for an extra frost nova/cone of cold. And possibly your bomb choice is wrong (not 100% about that).

Also, you can't expect 34 different specs to be absolutely balanced in every aspect of the game. Arcane is better than frost in raiding, so blizzard failed at designing raids. Great logic.

[Firebert]

Also, you can't expect 34 different specs to be absolutely balanced in every aspect of the game. Arcane is better than frost in raiding, so blizzard failed at designing raids. Great logic.

Poor extrapolation! Arcane beats Frost in raiding but the delta is very small, as opposed to the large delta in PG.