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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Or.... bump it to 95, keep it starting at 15, but give us a tier every 10 levels.
    I like how the math works out better, but nine talent tiers?

  2. #22
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I like how the math works out better, but nine talent tiers?
    We got 6 now if you haven't played since 5.0.

    Adding 3 more vs adding 1 more.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  3. #23
    I think they should expand on existing Talents and make them matter for both PvE and PvP. Examples:

    Currently DeathKnights's cannot pick a talent other than Death's advance PvE. Or Warlock Burning Rush.
    I also believe that Runic Corruption and Runic Empowerment are too similair and one should be replaced.


    Or Hunter LV90 talents have two with some sort of Crowd Control and one without (Barrage). According to World of Wargraphs 0% of BM Hunters, and 0.5% of MM Hunters with high Rating pick that. So basically 99.75% of high End PvP Hunters avoid that talent.
    Hunter LV90 Talents PvE also have the problem of some scaling with Haste and weapon damage while the other scales with Attack Power so there is no choice but just a mathematic formula which is better.


    Also there is a problem with levelling that it takes so long to learn a new Ability or talent which is boring on one side, and Ability bloat on the other side.Hopefully Blizzard will address that.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  4. #24
    Same talent system with changes to when you get each tier; and some changes as to which talent is available at each tier.

    Considering all the talk about ability bloat, I could use more tiers and thus more abilities being restricted by talent choices, resulting in more customization, but less abilities available at a given time.

    Only truth I know is: some people will rejoice, some people will whine. Those who rejoice will be called fanboys, those who whine will be called nostalgia-lovers.

  5. #25
    Brewmaster Breccia's Avatar
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    My prediction:
    -- current talent system remains. No talents at 95 (or 100, if that's the case)
    -- Blizzard announces at Blizzcon instead a new feature for max level, similar to Path of the Titans idea.
    -- Said idea is removed later in development and not replaced with anything.
    -- We get nothing except one new skill learned at level 93 or maybe 95, and the otherwise expected tunes to existing talents like any other patch.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    There was plenty of room for further specialization and niche-specs, and it was fun to study and figure out what would work best for you, specifically.
    Wow, that actually does sound like fun, what game was this in?
    "The fact that you don't get it or like it is fine. The fact that you wanna ruin it for everyone else - that's why you're a cocksucker." - Bill Hicks
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    The playerbase has been desiring this for years and when it's finally here, everyone wants to grab a pitchfork. Ridiculous. This community is disgustingly toxic.
    Please send all PM's with a read receipt, that way both you and I will know I'm not reading them....

  7. #27
    Dont necessarily think either of these options are what's going to happen but my design:
    OPTION 1
    100 level cap
    New talent every 10 levels, with tiers 1-6 collapsed to 10-60 as is.
    Not exact but around very other talent level would be utility vs main role
    (may be nice to standardize it over all classes to "T1 movement; T2 ability tier; T3 self-heal tier; T4 major cooldown; T5 silence/control/cc; etc.")

    OPTION 2
    99 level cap (à la diablo et all)
    No change in existing talents/tiers
    Release path of the titans, epic levels, or similar at cap

    Most likely... 5 levels no talents 1 new ability at 95. Boring.

  8. #28
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razamith View Post
    Dont necessarily think either of these options are what's going to happen but my design:
    OPTION 1
    100 level cap
    New talent every 10 levels, with tiers 1-6 collapsed to 10-60 as is.
    Not exact but around very other talent level would be utility vs main role
    (may be nice to standardize it over all classes to "T1 movement; T2 ability tier; T3 self-heal tier; T4 major cooldown; T5 silence/control/cc; etc.")

    OPTION 2
    99 level cap (à la diablo et all)
    No change in existing talents/tiers
    Release path of the titans, epic levels, or similar at cap

    Most likely... 5 levels no talents 1 new ability at 95. Boring.
    I don't get how a Epic Level can work, though.

    What would the mobs be set at? Level 1? Or level 100?

    Just keep the counter rolling up, 100 is not some magic number that if we pass it we become Jesus Reborn.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  9. #29
    Pit Lord Forgettable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    I think they should expand on existing Talents and make them matter for both PvE and PvP. Examples:

    Currently DeathKnights's cannot pick a talent other than Death's advance PvE. Or Warlock Burning Rush.
    I also believe that Runic Corruption and Runic Empowerment are too similair and one should be replaced.


    Or Hunter LV90 talents have two with some sort of Crowd Control and one without (Barrage). According to World of Wargraphs 0% of BM Hunters, and 0.5% of MM Hunters with high Rating pick that. So basically 99.75% of high End PvP Hunters avoid that talent.
    Hunter LV90 Talents PvE also have the problem of some scaling with Haste and weapon damage while the other scales with Attack Power so there is no choice but just a mathematic formula which is better.


    Also there is a problem with levelling that it takes so long to learn a new Ability or talent which is boring on one side, and Ability bloat on the other side.Hopefully Blizzard will address that.
    Actually this tier Chillblains, Death's Advance and Asphyxiate all get good use. What should be changed is the healing tier - No good raiding DK would ever choose anything except Death Pact because the other two choices cost resources.

    But I far prefer the system of talents now because I can actively change talents and glyphs to ones that are better based on the fight. This is good, and it separates the good players from the average players. I change a glyph almost every fight because I can help the raid more by doing so. This is good design. I remember back in wrath... The only time I changed talents was when I respecced to unholy to pvp.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    How about you stop with your convenient, populous, close-minded opinion. Not every talent in the old system was +/-% this or that. There was plenty of room for further specialization and niche-specs, and it was fun to study and figure out what would work best for you, specifically.

    It's all about opinion, experience, and perspective. I happen to think that changing one SPELL out for another depending on the fight is "dumb" and "brainless."
    Today's talent system is superior to the old one. Get over it. In the old trees you went to a website to see what everybody else was putting their talent points into and you did exactly what they did. So don't come here telling everybody that there was room for specialization or niche-specs because that is a total load of crap. You might have 1 or 2 points left over after following a cookie cutter build to put into what you want but those 2 points ended up being put into something that was about useless.

    OT: They'll either modify the levels at which you get to choose a talent at or they'll just add one more for max level.
    Last edited by Marema; 2013-10-04 at 04:21 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Why does people keep with spreading such misinformation, if the old talent tree was dumb, why they keep it for 3 expansions? blizzard get sick trying to balance the old talent tree, it was more hard to balance that talent tree because they had to prevent some spec using other spec talents being op like in lich king druids healers with that balance druid dot in arena, or with feral charge, or half blood dk half unholy, etc and etc. What did they do? move most of the talent tree in to spec passive and call gg.

    Not everybody is a dk, other class have cookie cutter builds because they fail again to balance the talent tree. http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html
    Because design is an ongoing thing and not set in stone for ever ?

    Why make small cell phones when big ones worked just fine ? Because they tried it and people liked it.

    Talents trees are so 1990, Blizz made WoW around what they had at that time and it worked for years but does that mean they shouldn't try to improve it ? No it does not. Some talents are still better than others but by such a small margin (most of the time) that it's usually down to players preferences.

    My biggest grippe with the new system is PVP (or PVE) only talents which are 99,9% useless in the other type of gameplay.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    I have a feeling they will try to implement a D3 paragon style levelpoint dump.

    They have said repeatedly that people don't find leveling rewarding enough with the new talents.

    that's my guess tho.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    We never got a max level ability since we got a max level talent.

    If they increase the level cap by 5, then they could make it such that we receive a max level ability and keep the talent system.
    The lvl 87 ability is a max level ability in my eyes. I more or less didn't use any of my lvl 87 abilities when I was leveling, since they were mostly for longer fights anyways. (Alter Time, Soul Reaper, Symbiosis, etc)
    EU first PG wave 30, come at me bros.

  14. #34
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Why does people keep with spreading such misinformation, if the old talent tree was dumb, why they keep it for 3 expansions? blizzard get sick trying to balance the old talent tree, it was more hard to balance that talent tree because they had to prevent some spec using other spec talents being op like in lich king druids healers with that balance druid dot in arena, or with feral charge, or half blood dk half unholy, etc and etc. What did they do? move most of the talent tree in to spec passive and call gg.

    Not everybody is a dk, other class have cookie cutter builds because they fail again to balance the talent tree. http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-0-0-0.html
    Blizzard didn't redo the talent trees because they "couldn't balance" them. They redid the talent trees because they said that they were pointless in the end since everyone followed a cookie-cutter spec and took no-brainer talents. There was a big dev discussion about it before MoP even launched.



  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgettable View Post
    Actually this tier Chillblains, Death's Advance and Asphyxiate all get good use. What should be changed is the healing tier - No good raiding DK would ever choose anything except Death Pact because the other two choices cost resources.
    For which Raid Fights you pick not Death's Advance? On the Self Heal talents, you bring up a good point since all except Death Pact are not really valuable for DPS roles in PvE. They are only chosen by Tanks or PvP oriented players.

    OT: I think Talent an Glyphs should take their modifications into account.

    For Example currently, if Monk picks LV15 Talent "Celerity" that adds a Roll Charge and reduces Roll Cooldown , then it makes the LV90 Talent "Chi Torpedo" much stronger. If Chi Torpedo is balanced around having 3 Charges and 15 Second cooldown with Celerity, then Talenting it is useless if you did not pick Celerity on LV15. If it is balanced around being 2 Charges and 20 second cooldown, then it is overpowered if Celerity is taken and the other two LV90 Talent choices become useless.

    In my Opinion Chi torpedo should be on par with the other Talents if Celerity is not chosen, but the Healing&Damage should be reduced a little bit if Celerity is chosen so the Damage and Healing overall is equal.


    Hunter also has the Glyphs of Deterrence, Mirrored Blades, Liberation, and Disengage being stronger when "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera" is picked and these Abilities CD is reduced. Again same deal: If being healed 5% of your HP through Disengage is balanced with a 25second CD, then it becomes overpowered if the Talent reduces it to 15 seconds. If it is balanced with a 15 Seconds CD, then the Glyph is underpowered whenever that Talent is not chosen.

    In the two above examples, no matter what the situation some choices are not really a choice if another option is superior.
    Last edited by Fincher; 2013-10-04 at 07:19 PM.
    Capitalism, Ho!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    I don't think there'll be a new talent system. They can't rip much more out without just flat-out killing talents altogether and replacing them with expanded glyph choices.

    It's more likely they'll expand the system, try to get you a tier every 10 levels instead of 15. Maybe make them have some spec-related talents again as well.
    I don't think the current talent system is sufficiently dissimilar to the glyph system for it to be safely said that talents have been maintained. There sure is a talent page for your character, but everything on there is a completely isolated ability like glyphs rather than a series of interconnected choices.

    The old talent tree system could have been adjusted to deal with all sorts of problems people come across regarding stat caps. Instead, Blizzard introduced reforging; since they can't seem to make that work they are getting rid of reforging and the stats people most often had to forge out of. This illustrates fairly clearly the tendency to break things, get frustrated, give up and start over rather than examining their problems and synthesizing solutions that accommodate the games short comings.

    Regarding that last bit; I was pretty sure Blizzard would switch back to wrath style talents that didn't force you to the end of the tree after Cataclysm's changes wrecked it. Instead they went full speed ahead on their current path. I wouldn't hold my breath expecting them to expand player choice.

  17. #37
    Not for every tier but I do like the idea of a few of the talent tiers being spec specific.

  18. #38
    I'd like to see the trees expanded again a little bit. It's not going to make them any more/less cookie cutter (there are still "standard" builds now, and there were cookie cutter builds then), but I still think it feels better to manually put a point into a talent tree when you level up. It's fun. It literally doesn't even matter if you have a choice where to put it, as far as I'm concerned, I just like being able to get a tangible reward when I level up that I have to do something with. /shrug

    The other two MMOs that I've played recently, RIFT and GW2, both retain larger "talent" systems that makes leveling feel a lot better.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    I don't think the current talent system is sufficiently dissimilar to the glyph system for it to be safely said that talents have been maintained. There sure is a talent page for your character, but everything on there is a completely isolated ability like glyphs rather than a series of interconnected choices.
    I think this is also a good point about the current talent system. It feels disjointed, and it doesn't feel like a talent build.
    Last edited by Daetur; 2013-10-04 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #39
    I am Murloc! ringpriest's Avatar
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    We'll be stuck with the current system (with minor overhauls, at least half of which will be detrimental or pointless) at least through the next expac. Then they'll have had enough time that saying the current talent "system" sucks won't feel like an admission of guilt and they'll change it completely, again. Flip a coin on whether it'll be better or worse.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Baine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Can people stop with this nonsense?

    The old talent trees were dumb. They were brainless. .
    I think the players are missing to unlock a new talent to spend at every level and I partially agree. Even if I prefer the current system, to pick one each 15 levels feels a bit long and I like the idea you get something every new level. They did a nice job of mentioning new available dungeons to fill the room but it is not enough. Could it be another progression system, replacing the glyphs? Not sure because it would compromise inscription.

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