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  1. #41
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    i know why they removed the old talents (cookie cutters etc)

    but i still sort of miss the bloated old things. It was fun figuring out differnet specs and putting all those points in as you leveled up.
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  2. #42
    Death knights don't follow the every 15 levels formula, so obviously it doesn't have to be that way at all times. There'll be one new talent at max.

  3. #43
    New talents will be as follows:
    step 1: Pick class>shaman
    step 2: Pick specialization>elemental
    step 3: Start leveling and gain spells at certain levels. The previous 2 options were your "choices".

    *Elemental shaman is a reference, you obviously don't have to just be that.
    do what you feel.

  4. #44
    Good news is they will show it in a month, bad news it will be a further butchering of what we have.

    I personally enjoyed the old system, but I would like to see talents and glyphs merged since we will probably never go back. They both pretty much feel like the same thing. I would like to see talents "replace" or "modify" spells to reduce button bloat if possible. Like for example if glyphs and talents were merged, we could have the hunter "healing" tier with exhilaration, spirit bond and disengage heal. Then we could have a survival tier with passive %, an active utility raid wide ability or deterrence % increase. My favorite would be the movement tier where we would have something like posthaste, aspect of cheetah glyph (no 4s cd) or giving disengage charges like conflag.

    Also, there's no reason to have "specs" anymore.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by karmazyn View Post
    Hello.
    Talent system reward you with 1 talent point every 15 levels. Soon we will get new expansion. It will have probably 5-10 new lvl, and according to actual talent it wont give you new talent. But people expect to have new talent at the max lvl. So you think whole system will be redone ? Please share you ideas and opinions.
    I hope the whole system is redone, at least to the point where custumization is possible. I understand why so many people likes current wanna be talents, they are the same people that just keep copy pasting them before, they don't have to think, they just copy paste, they have donne it before, and they are still doing it today.

    To compensate the ones that enjoy current talents, i think the best model would be a old/new mixed system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Can people stop with this nonsense?

    The old talent trees were dumb. They were brainless. 5% more damage done? Well who the hell isn't going to take that? Face it, all we had were cookie-cutter specs that you had to follow to be someone that anyone would take with in a PuG or raid. You had to. Some talent trees had one or two optional talents but they weren't optional abilities, they simply provided something more, such as more of a resource or more of a DoT or more of a critical strike chance that should have been baked in.
    That is your own opinion, plenty of people, like me, have refunded those arguments in the past.

    The point still stands... What choice do you have when you are offered to choose betwin 3 healing spealls, 3 stun/snare, 3 buffs, or 3 of more of the same wahtever?? You have no choice... Just like in old talent trees, the problem is that people did had choice in old trees, the dump people that keep choosing DPS talents, and keeped wipping on a boss that required you to survive him, not nuke him.

  6. #46
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuor View Post
    That is your own opinion, plenty of people, like me, have refunded those arguments in the past.

    The point still stands... What choice do you have when you are offered to choose betwin 3 healing spealls, 3 stun/snare, 3 buffs, or 3 of more of the same wahtever?? You have no choice... Just like in old talent trees, the problem is that people did had choice in old trees, the dump people that keep choosing DPS talents, and keeped wipping on a boss that required you to survive him, not nuke him.
    You mean refuted.

    This isn't just my opinion. This is the feeling of the game's designers, who saw the same issues I do: talents that just increase your damage by x% are boring. Yeah, I know we all liked getting a new talent every level and feeling like we got more powerful as time went on, but it took no thought. I'm not saying that our talent system now is amazing either but at the very least most of the time it is useful.



  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    You mean refuted.
    Sorry, i'm not english native .

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    This isn't just my opinion.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    This is the feeling of the game's designers, who saw the same issues I do: talents that just increase your damage by x% are boring.
    The feeling of progressing, that was the main goal of old talents. When you picked one of those mandatory talents you had a real fealing of had achived a progress... Who doesn't remember, has a Enhancement Shaman to know that his intelect is now being converted for AP aswell, and that was the greatest thing of old talents, they allowed you to learn you class, to understand what kind of rotation you need in some kind of situation, at this moment not even tooltips are being updated anymore, there is so much confusion .

    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I'm not saying that our talent system now is amazing either but at the very least most of the time it is useful.
    I have to say that i agree with you here in one point, being able to hot swap talents is good, its a great thing... But that feeling of greatness is gonne when they provide us with no real choice, and custumization, the removal of dept in old 3 dimensional gameplay system has always been my concern .

    Still, i understand, and respect all of those that enjoy current system, because, has i've said, not all is bad.
    Last edited by Tuor; 2013-10-04 at 10:04 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    You mean refuted.

    This isn't just my opinion. This is the feeling of the game's designers, who saw the same issues I do: talents that just increase your damage by x% are boring. Yeah, I know we all liked getting a new talent every level and feeling like we got more powerful as time went on, but it took no thought. I'm not saying that our talent system now is amazing either but at the very least most of the time it is useful.
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  9. #49
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    I have a feeling they will try to implement a D3 paragon style levelpoint dump.

    They have said repeatedly that people don't find leveling rewarding enough with the new talents.

    that's my guess tho.
    I wouldn't call it paragon levels, because IDK if a single-player idea can transfer well to MMO.

    But just look at the Legacy system in ToR if you want a good starting place. Then just add the distinctly WoW things to it like heirloom access (x-realm heirlooms at last).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    i know why they removed the old talents (cookie cutters etc)

    but i still sort of miss the bloated old things. It was fun figuring out differnet specs and putting all those points in as you leveled up.
    IMO the old specs weren't fun because they were bloated. They stopped being fun when Blizz forced you to spec into one tree until you hit the bottom.

    The best part of the old system was going maybe 1/2 way into one tree, then 1/2 way into another.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    New talents will be as follows:
    step 1: Pick class>shaman
    step 2: Pick specialization>elemental
    step 3: Start leveling and gain spells at certain levels. The previous 2 options were your "choices".

    *Elemental shaman is a reference, you obviously don't have to just be that.
    That sounds more like the talents are broken for Elemental.

    Step 3 should be making choices about what talent you want/need to use. If every choice is clear and based on your spec, it's a flaw in the system and should be fixed next time Blizz balances talents (probably 6.0)
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    Oh yeah ? Except for the 31/41 points which gave abilities, what other talent didn't give +% damage ?

    If you believe that you had more choices, then you're either dishonest or filled with nostalgia to an unhealthy level.

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    If you believe there wasn't any choices, then you're either dishonest or filled with fear of trying to think for yourself. For instance, I could name off at least 6 legitimate, different, useful Paladin specs from TBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marema View Post
    Today's talent system is superior to the old one. Get over it. In the old trees you went to a website to see what everybody else was putting their talent points into and you did exactly what they did. So don't come here telling everybody that there was room for specialization or niche-specs because that is a total load of crap. You might have 1 or 2 points left over after following a cookie cutter build to put into what you want but those 2 points ended up being put into something that was about useless.

    OT: They'll either modify the levels at which you get to choose a talent at or they'll just add one more for max level.
    No I disagree from personal experience. And those websites aren't 100% right 100% of the time, so how aboot you get over it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Baine View Post
    I think the players are missing to unlock a new talent to spend at every level and I partially agree. Even if I prefer the current system, to pick one each 15 levels feels a bit long and I like the idea you get something every new level. They did a nice job of mentioning new available dungeons to fill the room but it is not enough. Could it be another progression system, replacing the glyphs? Not sure because it would compromise inscription.
    No, I do not miss gaining a point each level. I miss talent points making a difference in how your toon played. They make very little difference in the current system, in the other system you could make game play changing decisions - TBC Pal, Ret and Ret Stunadin. It wasn't just about getting a 20 second or so HoJ, you also get much greater survivability.
    Last edited by Absintheminded; 2013-10-05 at 02:36 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Can people stop with this nonsense?

    The old talent trees were dumb. They were brainless. 5% more damage done? Well who the hell isn't going to take that? Face it, all we had were cookie-cutter specs that you had to follow to be someone that anyone would take with in a PuG or raid. You had to. Some talent trees had one or two optional talents but they weren't optional abilities, they simply provided something more, such as more of a resource or more of a DoT or more of a critical strike chance that should have been baked in.

    What is more pointless than that? What take less thought than cookie-cutter talent builds that give you straight bonuses that you'd be an idiot not to take?

    Today's talent tree? Well I spec into Death's Advance for Immerseus and Protectors as it makes both fights pretty easy for me in terms of mobility. I spec out of it into Asphyxiate for Galakras. I also change out Plague Leech into Unholy Blight for Galakras as it makes keeping diseases up on all of the waves very very easy. Back to Death's Advance for Iron Juggernaut...

    ...see where I am going with this? See how the new talent trees are superior? Instead of pointless "% damage increased" talents that you have to take they provide a lot of situational abilities that are swapped out on the fly to make your character more useful in situations they encounter. I am of greater value to my raid because I can switch out abilities that help me move faster or allow me to take on a role (like stunning Bonecrushers on Galakras with Asphyxiate) that I wouldn't otherwise have been able to, at least not easily.

    OT: I suspect they'll reorder the levels at which we take talents since that'd have no impact on already level 90's.
    I will respectfully disagree. There is no difference with current talents to before, they are also restrictive with janky builds (dps smite priests etc, tank enhancement etc). Pre-cata talents were much more interesting.

    It's an RPG, it should act more like it.

  12. #52
    They're either going to combine Talents and Glyphs in some way for more class and spec choices through levels or they're going to make sub-talents that are spec-specific that enhance power in some way, at least a little bit to have something to look forward to while leveling.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    You mean refuted.

    This isn't just my opinion. This is the feeling of the game's designers, who saw the same issues I do: talents that just increase your damage by x% are boring. Yeah, I know we all liked getting a new talent every level and feeling like we got more powerful as time went on, but it took no thought. I'm not saying that our talent system now is amazing either but at the very least most of the time it is useful.
    It might not just be your opinion, but it is still just an opinion not a fact.

    99% of the time, the current talent system is more like you are playing with all the talents, but 66% of them are useless on each fight. In effect you only really want 1 of each talent for each tier per a fight, so where is the choice? If you aren't in a situation where you really want 2-3 talents from each tier on any given fight, than you aren't making a real choice.

    The current system lacks fun whilst leveling(new shiney talent each level) and it forces you into a role.

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Kathranis's Avatar
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    I think the new talent system will simply be altered to either just add a new tier at max level, or rejiggered so that they're distributed a bit differently as you level up, if it's changed at all.

    My opinion is that, rather than continued fundamental changes to talents, specializations, or glyphs, they'll introduce a completely new alternate advancement system (perhaps recycling the Path of the Titans name). Something that grants points every single level, but which doesn't dramatically alter balance or require specific "builds." IE, something that, when maxed out, maybe grants a consistent 20% boost to character power.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2013-10-05 at 03:15 AM.

  15. #55
    Legendary! muto's Avatar
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    Just rework the current talents to make them viable for all specs, or not completely useless at all.

    Half the talents are useless in PVE

  16. #56
    Pit Lord Alltat's Avatar
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    I hope they just keep polishing the current talent system. It's far more interesting than the previous model. A lot of classes have fairly useless tiers, though (shaman level 45, anyone?), so some love would be nice. A talent specific tier would also be an improvement, as a lot of the current talents are rather generic. Some classes currently also have tiers that are only interesting for some specs (druid level 30 has only one choice that's useful as resto).
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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by lomak View Post
    considering blizzards track record, odds are they dumb it down even further. My guess is another "overhaul" that you hear about at blizzcon, where they might just remove talents altogether lol.
    everything is passive!

    eye of galakras doesnt work on HA, woot level 90 yet warrior has all.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Craakar View Post
    Sick of overhauls, every expansion it's been overhauled - let's keep it this way and build on it/improve it.
    Vanilla/tBC/WotLK didn't have any talent overhauls and only had improvements on already existing talent trees. Which is part of the reason I argue that WotLK talent trees were mostly superior to the current ones as they allowed you to feel a greater sense of progression while still allowing for pretty major variety despite what people might have you believe.
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  19. #59
    Bloodsail Admiral melak's Avatar
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    What they need to do (imo) is to give more talents, 1 ever 15 level... just lacks the progression feeling you need to have when you level up. They need way way more!
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  20. #60
    Blizzard can keep the talents as they are for the levels 1-90, and change the system in whatever they want for the future. They could even add two new talents if we will level up to 100 (each 5 levels), just in order to give the players a special bonus for the 10th anniversary of WoW. Who knows?

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