Why do "Dud" Timeless items exist?

[chazus]

What is the purpose of having an option where a Timeless item only has one stat on it, of a significant value less?

Example: My Mage
Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Decimator
+969 Critical Strike

Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Feverflare
+653 Haste, +653 Mastery

It's a difference of 337 secondary stats. In what spec, or situation, would anyone -ever- want a single stat option with that disparity? As long as it's the correct stats for your spec desired, any combination of 1300 stats would be preferable to one of 970. I'm just baffled (and frustrated over blowing a burden) as to why this option even exists.

[Omertocracy]

Because certain classes just want one stat and could give a fuck about the rest. DW Frost DK comes to mind.

[Memory]

You're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The option is there exactly to make it harder to get optimal gear from what is already free epics.
It's frustrating when you're trying to get level 535 gear and you get only one stat on it (which can make that item still better than, let's say, your current level 476 gear or what not), but it's part of the design.

[Stormgnoef]

What is the purpose of having an option where a Timeless item only has one stat on it, of a significant value less?

Example: My Mage
Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Decimator
+969 Critical Strike

Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Feverflare
+653 Haste, +653 Mastery

It's a difference of 337 secondary stats. In what spec, or situation, would anyone -ever- want a single stat option with that disparity? As long as it's the correct stats for your spec desired, any combination of 1300 stats would be preferable to one of 970. I'm just baffled (and frustrated over blowing a burden) as to why this option even exists.

its meant for players who hit just 90 to get into raiding faster.

[Memory]

It's random; "dud" items exist as raid drops too. Also on my warrior I'd rather have as much full crit as possible since haste and mastery are crap compared to crit.

Because certain classes just want one stat and could give a fuck about the rest. DW Frost DK comes to mind.

This argument is flawed. You can reforge. Two stats are always better.

[Mormolyce]

It's random; "dud" items exist as raid drops too. Also on my warrior I'd rather have as much full crit as possible since haste and mastery are crap compared to crit.

Well I don't know warrior stat weights but even if haste and mastery are crap compared to crit, 969 crit may still come out worse than 653 Haste + Mastery. Crit would need to be worth 35% more than either of them for the pure crit to be better.

[Memory]

your thinking is flawed. you cannot reforge something with crit haste to get more crit. pure crit wins, haste is a dogshit stat I don't want to see on anything my warrior wears.

So your warrior doesn't use hit and expertise? Ok.

[chazus]

It's not the 'only one stat' that is my issue. I'd be happy with 'one stat' if it actually had as many points as two stats.

500 Secondary OR 250 Secondary 1, 250 Secondary 2. This is okay.
400 Secondary OR 250 Secondary 1, 250 Secondary 2. This is not okay.

When my 535 item literally breaks even in terms of stats (ignoring stat weights), as my 522 item.. something is wrong.

[Mormolyce]

no, the crit doesn't come out worse.

Have you done the stat weight calculations? Or do you just automatically assume crit will be better in all situations no matter what?

Alright, I'll do it for you. Are these stat weights accurate?

STR - 3.07
Crit - 1.74
Mastery - 1.29
Haste - 1.28

http://www.maxdps.com/warrior/arms.php

Assuming they are (and it doesn't depend on your gear level which I think it does):

969 crit x 1.74 = 1686

(653 mastery x 1.29 = 842
+ 653 haste x 1.28 = 836)
=1678

So pretty damn close but crit wins by a hair. However if you reforge the haste to crit:

(653 mastery x 1.29 = 842
653 x 40% x 1.74 = 454
653 x 60% x 1.28 = 502)
=1798

So in fact haste/mastery comes out distinctly ahead once you take reforging into account.

[Ihnasir]

Because better gear exists in raids. My Timeless ring (Stam, Agi, Hit?!) was pretty bad, especially because I was already closing in on 9% hit with all of it reforged off on my other pieces. I also went for the Timeless shoulders to replace 502 LFR ones I had forever, and I got Crit/Mastery. Crit is awesome, but Mastery is garbage so I just reforged it to haste, being that I'm way over hit and exp caps.

[chazus]

it's just RNG, the only things that are ideal are going to be BiS, other than that you will have to deal with imperfections in your stat balances.

I'm not worried about 'stat balances'

I'm worried about the fact that two items of the same ilvl, of the same slot, of the same spec... Have a different number of stats on them.

Wouldn't you be pissed if you got a 553 Weapon that, for some unexplainable reason, had less of the primary stat than all the others of the same kind? It doesn't happen.

[Issalice]

I wouldn't worry to much about it. I figured the Timeless Isle items weren't meant as serious upgrades, just "place holder" gear so you could get a quick ilvl boost so you could raid.

[Linkedblade]

Some stats are better then no stats. On top of that there are ilvl increases and reforging. So, you have a lot of options.

[Mormolyce]

Yeah it does seem weird, effectively some of these items are either over or under their stat budget. No idea why.

[Knightsavior]

It's just meant to be something to start with, they don't want it to be main gear, they just want it to be something people use for now.

In other words, enter LFR and Flex with it, get gear, replace Timeless. =D
Although it is probable that some of the stat budget is a bit off. Perhaps it was supposed to have a socket before they cut it out and forgot to put the stats back in.

[chazus]

I figured the Timeless Isle items weren't meant as serious upgrades, just "place holder" gear so you could get a quick ilvl boost so you could raid.

Considering that I (and... the majority of the player base? At least a large portion) cannot do normal raids. Or possibly even Flex. Burden gear is pretty much the best there is.

Some stats are better then no stats. On top of that there are ilvl increases and reforging. So, you have a lot of options.

Actually, in this case it literally is no stats, because my 530 ring from Isle of Thunder literally has more stats on it. Even if they were a poor mix, they're still better. Even if I upgrade the ring to 543, my 530 is still better.

- - - Updated - - -

In other words, enter LFR, replace Timeless. =D

So it doesn't seem a bit backwards to you to replace my 535 gear with 528 gear?

[Itakas]

It's not the 'only one stat' that is my issue. I'd be happy with 'one stat' if it actually had as many points as two stats.

500 Secondary OR 250 Secondary 1, 250 Secondary 2. This is okay.
400 Secondary OR 250 Secondary 1, 250 Secondary 2. This is not okay.

When my 535 item literally breaks even in terms of stats (ignoring stat weights), as my 522 item.. something is wrong.

My guess is its intentional, as a way of not forcing ppl who actually raid, to be forced to go and farm that one item with 1 stat only that is better then what they got in tot. Its a catch up system, which is there to help new players or old players who quit early gear up a bit for lfr, not a system for ppl to farm rng hoping for 1 roll with the stat needed, so they can replace their existing tot items.

[Jawless Jones]

Disenchant purposes?

[Raiju]

What is the purpose of having an option where a Timeless item only has one stat on it, of a significant value less?

Example: My Mage
Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Decimator
+969 Critical Strike

Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Feverflare
+653 Haste, +653 Mastery

It's a difference of 337 secondary stats. In what spec, or situation, would anyone -ever- want a single stat option with that disparity? As long as it's the correct stats for your spec desired, any combination of 1300 stats would be preferable to one of 970. I'm just baffled (and frustrated over blowing a burden) as to why this option even exists.

This is both intentional and completely fine.

The ilvl system works that if an item has more separate stats on it, it gives you MORE stats than an equivalent item with less separate stats. This has been true since they formalized ilvl back in wrath and probably a trend on gear even before that.

The reason they do this is up to interpretation, maybe it is because of the aforementioned specs that gain more benefit from 1000 crit than 700 haste/700mastery, maybe it's because it allows them to make gear usable by more specs (2 stats at once) without the item being significantly weaker as a result, maybe they just like the idea of it. Regardless it's a standardized part of the ilvl formula and has been for years.

why is it ok? Well simply because it has been working in favour of balance. When they do choose to put in items with single stat enchants, the power increaase for specific specs is less dramatic, which in my opinion making less specific pieces of gear mandatory / a benchmark is always a bad thing (reason I hate the legendary cloak, the current tier trinkets). Having alternatives that aren't a significant dps loss is good game design.

Whether you believe it's appropriate for timeless isle is speculation, given how little I've been on the isle yet still worked up in excess of 100k coins and ran into 5 burdens - I'd say its fair that you have the opportunity to get a fantastic item balanced by the opportunity to get duds. You get gear so fast on the island it's hardly like you won't see another burden again (even on the same week)

[Raelbo]

What is the purpose of having an option where a Timeless item only has one stat on it, of a significant value less?

Example: My Mage
Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Decimator
+969 Critical Strike

Kiln-Stoker Ring of the Feverflare
+653 Haste, +653 Mastery

It's a difference of 337 secondary stats. In what spec, or situation, would anyone -ever- want a single stat option with that disparity? As long as it's the correct stats for your spec desired, any combination of 1300 stats would be preferable to one of 970. I'm just baffled (and frustrated over blowing a burden) as to why this option even exists.

I agree. The total stat disparity is too large.

I could understand if say the 'pure' ring had 10% less secondary stats, but a whopping 25% is crazy.

Personally I reckon they put the random factor into it to ensure that people have an incentive to keep on farming for Burdens of Eternity for a long time. I have so far used 4 Burdens to land up with 2 usable items. I got the best possible boots first try (crit/haste - I am a hunter). But then I got horrible results twice on rings (mastery/hit when I am already over hit cap is useless and then pure crit like yours). On my third attempt I got crit/mastery which is ok after reforging - although I still want to have crit/haste :P

Considering that I (and... the majority of the player base? At least a large portion) cannot do normal raids. Or possibly even Flex. Burden gear is pretty much the best there is.

This is of course true. But if you aren't doing flex/normal mode raiding, then there really is very little need for having better gear.

So it doesn't seem a bit backwards to you to replace my 535 gear with 528 gear?

This can be a bit frustrating, to have what you would think should be an upgrade, but is actually a downgrade, but this sort of thing has always been in the game. From what I have seen, with the right set of stats, Burden gear should generally be able to come out on top of LFR gear, but it could take you many attempts (and wasted Burdens) to get that specific one.