View Poll Results: With Flex now available, should Blizzard keep LFR so difficult?

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  • No, it should be targeted to its audience

    18 41.86%
  • Yes, let it continue requiring carriers

    12 27.91%
  • I'm doing Flex/N/H, so I SHOULD NOT care about LFR.

    13 30.23%
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  1. #1

    With Flex now available, should Blizzard keep LFR so difficult?

    As you may know, there was a gap in difficultly between LFR and normals, which leaded Blizzard to stretching difficulty towards harder levels to attract as much players, as they can. This caused implementing of some compromise hard vs beatable solutions. For example difficultly, that requires carriers (i.e. overgeared players) to present in raid. This caused many problems: without carriers LFR was unbeatable and most of toxic behavior were coming from this carriers (AFKing, slacking, trolling, queuing as healers), cuz they felt like LFR rewards were mandatory for them, but helping casuals was self-unrespectful. And they tended to complete it on reset day and also stop doing LFR, when they got, what they wanted. Now they have flexes, so isn't it time for finally tune LFR for it's target auditory? I have 3 concerns about it:
    1) Gap in difficultly is now closed - there is no need for stretching difficulty now. LFR is intended to serve as 5ppls replacement and should corresponding difficultly level.
    2) Requirement to have carriers in raid makes it shedule based, which is against essential principles of casual content. LFR is intended to be beatable at any state of tier, day of week and any time.
    3) Stacking wipe-buff causes too much time wasting, which is also against principles of casual content. LFR is intended to be completed just in 2 hours.

    And for those of you, who thinks, that LFR is intended to just let players see content: gearing up is part of content - without it LFR won't have any difference from YouTube video.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-10-04 at 09:56 AM.
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  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    the hardest part of LFR is the 24 other players in the instance. the fights themselves are very easy
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    without carriers LFR was unbeatable
    Since when? LFR wasn't designed for, nor did it require any "carriers". The first LFR's of MoP didn't have any, anyway, since everyone was walking in with blue gear. Yet we went 6/6 very quickly while we waited for the rest of the 25 man team to hit 90. Honestly I don't get most of your post. When was LFR ever difficult or meant to be?



  4. #4
    Epic! Bosbeer's Avatar
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    LFR was never intended for all of that.
    The only two things it was intended for was to queue up faster without having to search so long for other players, which is not the case at all since after wednesdays the queue times are around 2 hours..
    And yes, it is intended to be slightly less difficult than normal mode, but in this difficulty the complete raid element is out of it and most of the core tactics per boss are irrelevant..
    LFR failed at it's to privileges and fails even more because it's a lootfest.

  5. #5
    Legendary! vindicatorx's Avatar
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    LFR should be left alone. Flex is great if you have 10-20 people in your guild. I have 3 active and none do anything in mine and I like it that way.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Since when? LFR wasn't designed for, nor did it require any "carriers". The first LFR's of MoP didn't have any, anyway, since everyone was walking in with blue gear. Yet we went 6/6 very quickly while we waited for the rest of the 25 man team to hit 90. Honestly I don't get most of your post. When was LFR ever difficult or meant to be?
    Have you ever tried to do LFR at the end of the week without your friends help? For example not long before MOP Madness, that was tuned around having carriers in raid, was unbeatable on any day, except reset day, so I was forced to do it on 4-5 of my alt at reset day. Now I have only 2hrs/day to play Wow and stacking 6+ stacks without carriers on all bosses, since 2nd wing just means game over for me.
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  7. #7
    It's difficult now?
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  8. #8
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Have you ever tried to do LFR at the end of the week without your friends help? For example not long before MOP Madness, that was tuned around having carriers in raid, was unbeatable on any day, except reset day, so I was forced to do it on 4-5 of my alt at reset day. Now I have only 2hrs/day to play Wow and stacking 6+ stacks without carriers on all bosses, since 2nd wing just means game over for me.
    I almost exclusively do LFR on the weekends because I don't have time during the week between normal raid on my main and my job. I queue alone and I've worked with fresh tanks, healers, and dps in the LFR that haven't done it before.

    It's not tuned around having carriers in the raid. Period. Having people in the raid who are geared with normal/heroic gear sure makes it easier but it is absolutely NOT tuned that way



  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    LFR is intended to serve as 5ppls replacement and should corresponding difficultly level. (snip) LFR is intended to be completed just in 2 hours.
    Source to back these statements?
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  10. #10
    I think blizz is seeing the whole "tune it to its audience"-point by now, flex did indeed take a lot of people out of the lfr-pool, but it keeps too many people subbed to just let it flounder, so when Blizz gets more data about the current LfR audience (Without normal/heroic raiders), they might just get tuning closer to the mark next time...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by GuniorBinda View Post
    LFR was never intended for all of that.
    The only two things it was intended for was to queue up faster without having to search so long for other players, which is not the case at all since after wednesdays the queue times are around 2 hours..
    And yes, it is intended to be slightly less difficult than normal mode, but in this difficulty the complete raid element is out of it and most of the core tactics per boss are irrelevant..
    LFR failed at it's to privileges and fails even more because it's a lootfest.
    I just can't find 2 years old blueposts and tweets from GC to prove, that I'm right. Don't you remember, the tweet, that stated, that LFR targets office workers and should be beatable during lunch break? No? Hardcores whines about LFR being mandatory and unenjoyable for them forced Blizzard to make some temporal adjustments, till they will implement some alternatives. Now hardcores have their alternative. Isn't it time to bring LFR back to where it should be - to casual 5ppl-like experience?
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Have you ever tried to do LFR at the end of the week without your friends help? For example not long before MOP Madness, that was tuned around having carriers in raid, was unbeatable on any day, except reset day, so I was forced to do it on 4-5 of my alt at reset day. Now I have only 2hrs/day to play Wow and stacking 6+ stacks without carriers on all bosses, since 2nd wing just means game over for me.
    That's because it's a new wing. Give it time.
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  13. #13
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    I just can't find 2 years old blueposts and tweets from GC to prove, that I'm right. Don't you remember, the tweet, that stated, that LFR targets office workers and should be beatable during lunch break? No? Hardcores whines about LFR being mandatory and unenjoyable for them forced Blizzard to make some temporal adjustments, till they will implement some alternatives. Now hardcores have their alternative. Isn't it time to bring LFR back to where it should be - to casual 5ppl-like experience?
    The only blue post I ever heard saying something was supposed to take a lunch break was the change back to Wrath heroics. Definitely not LFR. Most trash alone would take a normal lunch break.



  14. #14
    It's likely that LFR will be tuned even lower in the future.

    The previous tuning worked due to there being a more healthy variety of players in the pool to keep it afloat. But now with Flex raiding existing and also supplementing alt raiding, LFR did take a bit of a hit. Blizzard will just tune LFR lower and move on.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    I just can't find 2 years old blueposts and tweets from GC to prove, that I'm right. Don't you remember, the tweet, that stated, that LFR targets office workers and should be beatable during lunch break?
    I remember his tweet it was about dungeons and heroic scenarios, not LFR.
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  16. #16
    The Patient Arainie's Avatar
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    Difficult?
    We're living in different worlds man. Get rid of the ones dragging you down instead, the AFKers and the people who don't care to move from shit or learn mechanics and it could even be tuned harder without causing wipes.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    Difficult?
    We're living in different worlds man. Get rid of the ones dragging you down instead, the AFKers and the people who don't care to move from shit or learn mechanics and it could even be tuned harder without causing wipes.
    It's not difficult but LFR is pretty much targeted at players with sporadic game time and for players who are quite frankly bad at the game to keep the subbed. Blizzard isn't going to cut out LFR. They'll just tune it even lower so the idiots still can't wipe you.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I almost exclusively do LFR on the weekends because I don't have time during the week between normal raid on my main and my job. I queue alone and I've worked with fresh tanks, healers, and dps in the LFR that haven't done it before.

    It's not tuned around having carriers in the raid. Period. Having people in the raid who are geared with normal/heroic gear sure makes it easier but it is absolutely NOT tuned that way
    Sorry, but implementation of wipe-buff proves, that I'm right. 6+ stacks, required to down the boss with relatively good group (no slack, no AFK, with tactics) just means, that this boss is literally unbeatable without buff or carriers in raid. May be it just luck, that you've never seen this endless "wait for 20 min to fill the raid - wipe - lose half of raid again"?
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-10-04 at 05:59 AM.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
    Sorry for my bad english. My signature.(Warning! 9.6Mb gif animation)
    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by AVPaul View Post
    Sorry, but implementation of wipe-buff proves, that I'm right. 6+ stacks, required to down the boss with relatively good group (no slack, no AFK, with tactics) just means, that this boss is literally unbeatable without buff or carriers in raid.
    Or they just released the content incorrectly overtuned for their target audience. This happens to encounters on every setting.

  20. #20
    Flex is what I do mostly now.
    Though I think it'd be nice if they made LFR depend less on how competent the tanks and healers are. I often find that the DPS is solid in LFR but one tank always fucks up or a couple of healers are slackers and/or are people who queued as healer but are playing DPS.

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